Is a Zonda really worth it?
Discussion
darksider said:
Looks like I am about 2 years late but here goes anyways! There are currently 4 Zonda's available for sale at a German dealership named Amian Cars - does anyone know if they are reputable?
I hear about older Zonda's being converted to newer specs all the time but my research has revealed very little about the potential costs. If any of you fine gearheads happens to know, I'd really appreciate it any info you might have.
Are you going to ship to New York?I hear about older Zonda's being converted to newer specs all the time but my research has revealed very little about the potential costs. If any of you fine gearheads happens to know, I'd really appreciate it any info you might have.
Hideaway said:
darksider said:
Looks like I am about 2 years late but here goes anyways! There are currently 4 Zonda's available for sale at a German dealership named Amian Cars - does anyone know if they are reputable?
I hear about older Zonda's being converted to newer specs all the time but my research has revealed very little about the potential costs. If any of you fine gearheads happens to know, I'd really appreciate it any info you might have.
Are you going to ship to New York?I hear about older Zonda's being converted to newer specs all the time but my research has revealed very little about the potential costs. If any of you fine gearheads happens to know, I'd really appreciate it any info you might have.
cc8s said:
The silver S should be the ex-Rio Prestige car with new wheels and will have high mileage (hence no note of it on the website). I'd try to haggle a deal over that (being an ex-rental car) and that would hopefully give you some change to invest into changing it.
Saying that, I don't prefer the idea of changing them - I love the original spec cars.
And this is why I am on this forum, really valuable info! I would probably haggle on the F coupe instead seeing as how it has 24k miles on it. There is no way in hell I would pay a premium on a car that has that much mileage.Saying that, I don't prefer the idea of changing them - I love the original spec cars.
Edited by darksider on Sunday 29th December 23:04
darksider said:
Yes and no - I work and live in NYC so the car might be temporarily there. The idea of driving such a low car in the concrete jungle isn't that appealing to me. It's most likely the car will be in Europe.
First of all, a few things which you probably know but better say just in case!There is only one Zonda that registered in the US, which is car #9 if I remember right. This is owned personally by the owner of a car dealership, but I don't think he wants to sell (he has had a few offers). The car is actually in Europe. The only car in the US is the yellow one in California. This avoided the problem of registering the car in the US by "the company testing a product to see if they are interested in it", or something similar from what I understand.
The red F that you are looking at is a UK car, which has been on the plate V20 NDA (but spaced V 20NDA). It's been used on a lot of the Vanishing Points (Pagani annual meet). It has also been in storage at the factory during some of it's history.
One of the things to do is contact Pagani and I suspect they would be happy to tell you a bit about it. Plus costs of any changes. However simply put, they are not cheap.
NRS said:
darksider said:
Yes and no - I work and live in NYC so the car might be temporarily there. The idea of driving such a low car in the concrete jungle isn't that appealing to me. It's most likely the car will be in Europe.
First of all, a few things which you probably know but better say just in case!There is only one Zonda that registered in the US, which is car #9 if I remember right. This is owned personally by the owner of a car dealership, but I don't think he wants to sell (he has had a few offers). The car is actually in Europe. The only car in the US is the yellow one in California. This avoided the problem of registering the car in the US by "the company testing a product to see if they are interested in it", or something similar from what I understand.
The red F that you are looking at is a UK car, which has been on the plate V20 NDA (but spaced V 20NDA). It's been used on a lot of the Vanishing Points (Pagani annual meet). It has also been in storage at the factory during some of it's history.
One of the things to do is contact Pagani and I suspect they would be happy to tell you a bit about it. Plus costs of any changes. However simply put, they are not cheap.
TISPKJ said:
Apologies, and CC8S, seem to remember both of you guys very knowledgable on the cars / owners / locations
Oh not at all - I'm flattered! darksider said:
cc8s said:
The silver S should be the ex-Rio Prestige car with new wheels and will have high mileage (hence no note of it on the website). I'd try to haggle a deal over that (being an ex-rental car) and that would hopefully give you some change to invest into changing it.
Saying that, I don't prefer the idea of changing them - I love the original spec cars.
And this is why I am on this forum, really valuable info! I would probably haggle on the F coupe instead seeing as how it has 24k miles on it. There is no way in hell I would pay a premium on a car that has that much mileage.Saying that, I don't prefer the idea of changing them - I love the original spec cars.
Edited by darksider on Sunday 29th December 23:04
darksider said:
NRS said:
darksider said:
Yes and no - I work and live in NYC so the car might be temporarily there. The idea of driving such a low car in the concrete jungle isn't that appealing to me. It's most likely the car will be in Europe.
First of all, a few things which you probably know but better say just in case!There is only one Zonda that registered in the US, which is car #9 if I remember right. This is owned personally by the owner of a car dealership, but I don't think he wants to sell (he has had a few offers). The car is actually in Europe. The only car in the US is the yellow one in California. This avoided the problem of registering the car in the US by "the company testing a product to see if they are interested in it", or something similar from what I understand.
The red F that you are looking at is a UK car, which has been on the plate V20 NDA (but spaced V 20NDA). It's been used on a lot of the Vanishing Points (Pagani annual meet). It has also been in storage at the factory during some of it's history.
One of the things to do is contact Pagani and I suspect they would be happy to tell you a bit about it. Plus costs of any changes. However simply put, they are not cheap.
NRS has giving you some good infor. But just to add, don’t make mileage an issue when looking at a Zonda. Unlike other Italian exotica the Zonda is virtually bullet proof. A number of examples have well over 50k miles and some are now 100k miles and climbing. To give you an example Harry Metcalf's old Zonda only had its first set of plugs changed after it had done 47K miles.
Unlike more modern super cars the Zonda is actually a very simple and basic design. There is little to go wrong, but being a super car don’t expect servicing to be cheap.
Pagani loves to have the cars back at the factory for upgrades, but be careful these come at a heavy price.
If you have any particular questions then please feel free to ask, I would be more than happy to help plus it gives me a chance to talk about my fave modern supercar.
Edited by Streetrod on Monday 30th December 21:49
Yes, as Streetrod says the Zondas are generally reliable, so the only problem might be resale when looking at one with a higher milage. However it could also mean you don't lose as much value if you do drive it quite often. In regards to the engine there was one car that had it's sump changed at the local Mercedes dealership after the owner damaged it once!
By the way, a quick sidenote. A lot of the cars for sale seem to be SOR and since the owners don't need to sell the prices may be a bit diffcult to negotiate down too much. It makes sense, most owners use them so rarely so it's a way to store the car and potentially put up the value of the car in the long term. Ask a silly price, people will pay a bit under and so think they have a good deal, the previous owner gets a bit more money than they would otherwise. So quite a few cars will stay for sale for a long time. One car that sold pretty quickly in the recent past was to a PH member, TT9 if I remember correctly? His car was upgraded from F spec to Cinque spec by the previous owner (red and carbon body with gold wheels). So he would also be able to give input into upgrade costs since almost certainly the paperwork would follow the car (although the work was done a few years ago now).
darksider said:
Really insightful, thanks! As you mentioned, I would probably get a permit to register the car as a "demo" vehicle. I really have no intention of driving it too much in the states. I am going to contact Alberto at Pagani and see what happens. I'll keep everyone informed as soon as I know more.
Alberto is a really nice guy, he's been there for quite a few years too. Really great memory for people too! Oh, there was also a British car over in the US for a few weeks that was taken over on holiday - not sure if that helps. All the best with the enquires. By the way, a quick sidenote. A lot of the cars for sale seem to be SOR and since the owners don't need to sell the prices may be a bit diffcult to negotiate down too much. It makes sense, most owners use them so rarely so it's a way to store the car and potentially put up the value of the car in the long term. Ask a silly price, people will pay a bit under and so think they have a good deal, the previous owner gets a bit more money than they would otherwise. So quite a few cars will stay for sale for a long time. One car that sold pretty quickly in the recent past was to a PH member, TT9 if I remember correctly? His car was upgraded from F spec to Cinque spec by the previous owner (red and carbon body with gold wheels). So he would also be able to give input into upgrade costs since almost certainly the paperwork would follow the car (although the work was done a few years ago now).
Sorry for the double post, just thought to mention a few other cars in case you didn't know about them:
LHD 7.3 litre S with around 12 000 miles at Carugatti (they've sold a lot of Zondas):
http://www.carugati.ch/?lg=en&pg=cars&sel=...
LHD silver F Roadster with around 14 500 miles at Bob Forstner (also good reputation, although it seems like they don't lower the prices too much, but that may be the owners not budging on price when SOR):
http://www.bobforstner.co.uk/product/2008-pagani-z...
Pagani is obviously known for their quality with carbon, but there are one or two cars in bare carbon that have a bit of distorton to the A-pillar. It's worth checking when looking at a naked carbon car.
LHD 7.3 litre S with around 12 000 miles at Carugatti (they've sold a lot of Zondas):
http://www.carugati.ch/?lg=en&pg=cars&sel=...
LHD silver F Roadster with around 14 500 miles at Bob Forstner (also good reputation, although it seems like they don't lower the prices too much, but that may be the owners not budging on price when SOR):
http://www.bobforstner.co.uk/product/2008-pagani-z...
Pagani is obviously known for their quality with carbon, but there are one or two cars in bare carbon that have a bit of distorton to the A-pillar. It's worth checking when looking at a naked carbon car.
coyft said:
Amian cars has very knowledgable and experienced representation in the UK, if you PM me I can pass their details onto you if you would like.
How are you enjoying you car Coyft? I saw you had it out for Vmax and Wilton. Have you done any more exploring under parts? Edited by NRS on Monday 30th December 22:20
Don't know if this has been mentioned before but Kidston of Switzerland have a very nice white LHD Zonda F for sale http://www.kidston.com/kidston-cars/2474/2008-Paga... hope this helps.
coyft said:
It's tucked away in the garage for the winter at the moment. The current garage is too small and cold to do any exploring, but come end of January, I'll have a big heated garage with a scissor lift, so watch this space!
I wish there was a Haynes manual I'd get more adventurous.
Sounds like fun! Perhaps you could make your own Haynes guide as you go along? Or perhaps a "How to walk through guide" for Zonda owners car maintenance?! I haven't ever seen one of those! I wish there was a Haynes manual I'd get more adventurous.
That said, it could be a bit embarrasing in the conversation with the factory..."Hi, my car has a problem... no, it's not had problems starting or anything, I just was taking some bits to pieces and can't remember how to put it back together again"!
zondaboy said:
Hasn't Wyclef Jean got a red Zonda S? and didn't the late Benny Caiola Jr. from New York own 1 or 2 Zondas? His collection of supercars were up for sale a while back. Not sure if the Zonda(s) were in any of the auction lots though. You might want to look into this darksider.
In regards to Caiola's cars; the white F he had was for sale around a year ago at PACE Germany. However this last autumn it was seen with the same French plate it had previously, so it could well be that it didn't sell - might be worth contacting PACE if you are interested? His red S Roadster was sold at action in 2011 and is now UK registered. You guys are spoiling me here with information - I can barely keep up!
Streetrod: yes, this will probably be the greatest investment of my life (that is until my future wife comes along heh). It's strange, I've never really had a interest in exotic cars until I saw the Zonda on Top Gear and it completely changed my perception. And we will definitely be discussing this car more in the coming months!
coyft: always good to hear from an actual Zonda owner - hopefully I will be joining the club soon! And I really appreciate your quick thoughts on Amian too, very reassuring.
NRS: thanks for the email and comments. My main priority will be to get one for a good price so that I have enough remaining to upgrade the car. And I think you are right about the SOR, might be difficult to get around that but hey, I am an optimist!
The question I am asking myself is: since there are a decent selection of Zonda's on the market to choose from, could I possibly use that as a negotiation tactic to help get a better price? Seven Zonda's on the market does seem like quite a large inventory in relation to the rarity of the car.....
Zondaboy: love the username and I will definitely look into that.
Streetrod: yes, this will probably be the greatest investment of my life (that is until my future wife comes along heh). It's strange, I've never really had a interest in exotic cars until I saw the Zonda on Top Gear and it completely changed my perception. And we will definitely be discussing this car more in the coming months!
coyft: always good to hear from an actual Zonda owner - hopefully I will be joining the club soon! And I really appreciate your quick thoughts on Amian too, very reassuring.
NRS: thanks for the email and comments. My main priority will be to get one for a good price so that I have enough remaining to upgrade the car. And I think you are right about the SOR, might be difficult to get around that but hey, I am an optimist!
The question I am asking myself is: since there are a decent selection of Zonda's on the market to choose from, could I possibly use that as a negotiation tactic to help get a better price? Seven Zonda's on the market does seem like quite a large inventory in relation to the rarity of the car.....
Zondaboy: love the username and I will definitely look into that.
Did I put this up before?
"... the Pagani has only one point of deference within it; it isn't as fast as a McLaren. But it is a far better road car; more resolved, less intimidating and, at current market values, half the price."
"The Zonda S succeeds because it is so beautifully assembled, so competent to drive, and so exclusive."
- Chris Harris, Autocar Road Test, June 4th 2002.
"... the Pagani has only one point of deference within it; it isn't as fast as a McLaren. But it is a far better road car; more resolved, less intimidating and, at current market values, half the price."
"The Zonda S succeeds because it is so beautifully assembled, so competent to drive, and so exclusive."
- Chris Harris, Autocar Road Test, June 4th 2002.
Sweet Odin's raven, I really hope my numbers come up tonight. If they do I'll be having this:
http://www.jamesedition.com/cars/pagani/zonda_f/zo...
Keep your P1s, LaFerraris, Huayras and 918 Spyders, that is where my £1m would go.
Just utterly, completely stunning.
Desire, thy name is Zonda.
http://www.jamesedition.com/cars/pagani/zonda_f/zo...
Keep your P1s, LaFerraris, Huayras and 918 Spyders, that is where my £1m would go.
Just utterly, completely stunning.
Desire, thy name is Zonda.
Beefmeister said:
Sweet Odin's raven, I really hope my numbers come up tonight. If they do I'll be having this:
http://www.jamesedition.com/cars/pagani/zonda_f/zo...
Keep your P1s, LaFerraris, Huayras and 918 Spyders, that is where my £1m would go.
Just utterly, completely stunning.
Desire, thy name is Zonda.
Ahhhttp://www.jamesedition.com/cars/pagani/zonda_f/zo...
Keep your P1s, LaFerraris, Huayras and 918 Spyders, that is where my £1m would go.
Just utterly, completely stunning.
Desire, thy name is Zonda.
Beefmeister, that is chassis 78086 which is also my personal favourite. I have spent way too much time pouring over that car up close and personal. I just love it.Anyway enough of that. Darksider I would suggest you also subscribe to www.pagani-zonda.net this is where us Zonda geeks hang out. Here you will find information on all the Zonda's that have ever been built from chassis numbers upwards as well as all the Huryra's. You should be able to get histories on all the cars
darksider said:
NRS: thanks for the email and comments. My main priority will be to get one for a good price so that I have enough remaining to upgrade the car. And I think you are right about the SOR, might be difficult to get around that but hey, I am an optimist!
Always worth trying! It just takes one car that the owner is actually wanting to sell, like TurboTerrific9 got. Incidently his car is one of my favourites, I saw it before and after the upgrades and both versions looked fantastic. It was interesting that the person who looked after it said that he prefered the sound before it was upgraded to the Cinque specification.What upgrades are you thinking about? It may be there is a car that has them and so helps you save money! Been a little out of date with some of the cars, but the silver S at Amian has already sold even though it is still on the site, although you weren't considering it anyway. Another car not for sale but that you might be able to get is the GJ. This was crashed previously, and during the repairs a lot was upgraded to F spec. It was for auction but didn't sell - hence the owner could be open to a bid through Pagani perhaps?
GT196 said:
darksider said:
According to James Edition, the grey F coupe is 1.15 million euros while the yellow one is 750k euros. The grey one is out of the question (right hand drive) which leaves only 3 possible options.
thanks very much indeed. they've certainly gone up in price!Edited by NRS on Tuesday 31st December 15:26
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