Is a Zonda really worth it?
Discussion
Streetrod said:
Darksider it’s not a question of a chassis being available but the question of engines. AMG has stopped production of the Pagani NA V12’s. The tooling still exists but AMG will only build more engines if Pagani, if I remember correctly put in an order for a minimum of 5 engines, and at over £300k each that is a major commitment. The other thing is the engines do not meet the current emissions standards which were why they were phased out in the first place.
As for the GJ, converting it too LHD is a relatively simple task as the mounting points are already in the chassis. This would make practical and financial sense as GJ I suspect could be had for a lot less than the cars currently on sale
Here is a pic of GJ to inspire you. That is a matt bare carbon body by the way that would be a major major cost if you were to have it recreated new. A quick coat of lacquer would be all that's needed if you fancied a shiny finish
I figured the engines would be a sticking point. So the question becomes, how difficult will it be to upgrade an old engine into a new one? The S roadster is my top choice right now and it's a 2004 model so the engine is pretty old. As for the GJ, converting it too LHD is a relatively simple task as the mounting points are already in the chassis. This would make practical and financial sense as GJ I suspect could be had for a lot less than the cars currently on sale
Here is a pic of GJ to inspire you. That is a matt bare carbon body by the way that would be a major major cost if you were to have it recreated new. A quick coat of lacquer would be all that's needed if you fancied a shiny finish
Edited by Streetrod on Wednesday 1st January 12:12
As for the GJ, it has my attention now. I really think it could be a viable option if I could get it for 700k-800k euros. I've budgeted 400k euros for upgrades which should be adequate to get what I want.
darksider said:
Streetrod said:
Darksider it’s not a question of a chassis being available but the question of engines. AMG has stopped production of the Pagani NA V12’s. The tooling still exists but AMG will only build more engines if Pagani, if I remember correctly put in an order for a minimum of 5 engines, and at over £300k each that is a major commitment. The other thing is the engines do not meet the current emissions standards which were why they were phased out in the first place.
As for the GJ, converting it too LHD is a relatively simple task as the mounting points are already in the chassis. This would make practical and financial sense as GJ I suspect could be had for a lot less than the cars currently on sale
Here is a pic of GJ to inspire you. That is a matt bare carbon body by the way that would be a major major cost if you were to have it recreated new. A quick coat of lacquer would be all that's needed if you fancied a shiny finish
I figured the engines would be a sticking point. So the question becomes, how difficult will it be to upgrade an old engine into a new one? The S roadster is my top choice right now and it's a 2004 model so the engine is pretty old. As for the GJ, converting it too LHD is a relatively simple task as the mounting points are already in the chassis. This would make practical and financial sense as GJ I suspect could be had for a lot less than the cars currently on sale
Here is a pic of GJ to inspire you. That is a matt bare carbon body by the way that would be a major major cost if you were to have it recreated new. A quick coat of lacquer would be all that's needed if you fancied a shiny finish
Edited by Streetrod on Wednesday 1st January 12:12
As for the GJ, it has my attention now. I really think it could be a viable option if I could get it for 700k-800k euros. I've budgeted 400k euros for upgrades which should be adequate to get what I want.
If the GJ could be had for the money you suggest I think you would be onto a great deal as the upgrades have already been done and the full carbon body would allow a Cinque style paint job. Plus you would have plenty in your budget for a LHD conversion and a new interior if you wanted it. Here are a couple of ideas for you.
Happy new year to darksider and everyone on pistonheads. I just wanted to make darksider aware if he didn't already know of this little beauty from the Pagani dealer in France http://www.auxchateauxdusudouest.com/pagani-zonda-... Has quite a few miles on the clock so could be better value than a lot of Zondas on the market and has potential for upgrading.
I believe this car has spent some time in Monaco. Owner was also seen driving other tasty motors like a Koenigsegg Revo and cream coloured Agera. I don't mean to go off the topic but would a Koenigsegg appeal to you as a lot of them are US compliant, are cheaper than most Zondas but performance wise does higher numbers than a Zonda (a special edition Agera thrashed a Veyron in a drag race recently) and have that very convenient roof which you can easily store in the bonnet or should we not even go there? I just want to help you make the right choice.
I believe this car has spent some time in Monaco. Owner was also seen driving other tasty motors like a Koenigsegg Revo and cream coloured Agera. I don't mean to go off the topic but would a Koenigsegg appeal to you as a lot of them are US compliant, are cheaper than most Zondas but performance wise does higher numbers than a Zonda (a special edition Agera thrashed a Veyron in a drag race recently) and have that very convenient roof which you can easily store in the bonnet or should we not even go there? I just want to help you make the right choice.
Streetrod: it's either a Cinque spec engine or 760 one - it really depends on the final cost. If there isn't a big price difference between the engines, then I'd go with the 760. Either way, I highly doubt there is a discernible difference in performance.
And yes, I totally forgot about the suspension - I would definitely want that upgraded as well.
So in your opinion (and anyone else who cares to chime in), what would be a good asking price for the GJ? I know none of you here can't speak for the owner but an rough estimate would help......
Zondaboy: I've seen that Zonda before - the owner got pulled over once by the Monaco police for speeding, it was quite the scene! I even remember watching 2 pretty girls jump into that very Zonda just outside the casino haha. Looks like the Zonda has many other "uses" besides driving fast. But hey, when you have a million dollar supercar, you try to get the most out of it right?
I am really glad you found this Zonda - it's actually a very viable option for me especially seeing as how it's a roadster and in Monaco already.
As for the 'Egg, not really into the Agera. I've toyed around with the idea of getting one but it would have to be highly customized to cater to my tastes. Truth be told, I really have no desire to buy any other car other than the Zonda.
And yes, I totally forgot about the suspension - I would definitely want that upgraded as well.
So in your opinion (and anyone else who cares to chime in), what would be a good asking price for the GJ? I know none of you here can't speak for the owner but an rough estimate would help......
Zondaboy: I've seen that Zonda before - the owner got pulled over once by the Monaco police for speeding, it was quite the scene! I even remember watching 2 pretty girls jump into that very Zonda just outside the casino haha. Looks like the Zonda has many other "uses" besides driving fast. But hey, when you have a million dollar supercar, you try to get the most out of it right?
I am really glad you found this Zonda - it's actually a very viable option for me especially seeing as how it's a roadster and in Monaco already.
As for the 'Egg, not really into the Agera. I've toyed around with the idea of getting one but it would have to be highly customized to cater to my tastes. Truth be told, I really have no desire to buy any other car other than the Zonda.
zondaboy said:
he didn't already know of this little beauty from the Pagani dealer in France http://www.auxchateauxdusudouest.com/pagani-zonda-... .
Do you know what they are asking for that?I suspect the £500 000 asking price or so might be ok for the GJ. It is based on an older S, which generally go for £450 000 or so. However then you also have to add in the extra costs of the upgrades, and subtract the crash history.
In regards to the upgrades you would probably need to upgrade the bodywork too - to make sure downforce etc are enough, plus have the scopes to get enough air into the engine. I'm not sure how much it is needed, but certainly some of the previous cars have had some changes and needed to balance them with some of the newer bodywork.
Streetrod said:
Now I am guessing because it is not mentioned in the advert that the S Roadster is chassis number 76050, but I could be wrong as there are two near identical cars out there. That would mean it has the 7.3 litre engine. If that is the case you would be able to upgrade right up to 760RS spec if you wanted i.e. 750HP. Or if you did not want to go that far then F Club sport spec at 650 hp or Cinque spec at 678hp, basically how fast can you afford to go? I suspect Pagani would at least recommend upgrading the suspension to F or Cinque spec to match along with ceramic brakes. Here are a couple of more picks to stir you up; it really is a nice looking car.
There's a bit of uncertainty on the numbers, but this one is probably #38, with the other similar one probably being #42. However the two easy ways to tell them apart is the modified front spoiler (basically fog lamps stick out a lot more) and NACA ducts on the rear for the #42. Whatever their number, the suspected #38 was shown at Geneva in 2004.In regards to the upgrades you would probably need to upgrade the bodywork too - to make sure downforce etc are enough, plus have the scopes to get enough air into the engine. I'm not sure how much it is needed, but certainly some of the previous cars have had some changes and needed to balance them with some of the newer bodywork.
darksider said:
I even remember watching 2 pretty girls jump into that very Zonda just outside the casino haha. Looks like the Zonda has many other "uses" besides driving fast. But hey, when you have a million dollar supercar, you try to get the most out of it right?
Looks like it wasn't only you, 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V5NOHgjORRo
NRS said:
I suspect the £500 000 asking price or so might be ok for the GJ. It is based on an older S, which generally go for £450 000 or so. However then you also have to add in the extra costs of the upgrades, and subtract the crash history.
In regards to the upgrades you would probably need to upgrade the bodywork too - to make sure downforce etc are enough, plus have the scopes to get enough air into the engine. I'm not sure how much it is needed, but certainly some of the previous cars have had some changes and needed to balance them with some of the newer bodywork.
If you decide to get into body work changes then your expenditure is going to go through the roof. The front and rear clam shells are very large and complex pieces. Yes the F body work is more aero dynamic but I am not sure the differences you would feel are worth the investment. You would probably get a better aero effect by adding the Cinque front splitter and rear diffuser for a fraction of the cost. Plus I have never seen an S with them fitted so that would be an original lookStreetrod said:
Now I am guessing because it is not mentioned in the advert that the S Roadster is chassis number 76050, but I could be wrong as there are two near identical cars out there. That would mean it has the 7.3 litre engine. If that is the case you would be able to upgrade right up to 760RS spec if you wanted i.e. 750HP. Or if you did not want to go that far then F Club sport spec at 650 hp or Cinque spec at 678hp, basically how fast can you afford to go? I suspect Pagani would at least recommend upgrading the suspension to F or Cinque spec to match along with ceramic brakes. Here are a couple of more picks to stir you up; it really is a nice looking car.
There's a bit of uncertainty on the numbers, but this one is probably #38, with the other similar one probably being #42. However the two easy ways to tell them apart is the modified front spoiler (basically fog lamps stick out a lot more) and NACA ducts on the rear for the #42. Whatever their number, the suspected #38 was shown at Geneva in 2004.In regards to the upgrades you would probably need to upgrade the bodywork too - to make sure downforce etc are enough, plus have the scopes to get enough air into the engine. I'm not sure how much it is needed, but certainly some of the previous cars have had some changes and needed to balance them with some of the newer bodywork.
traxx said:
zondaboy said:
he didn't already know of this little beauty from the Pagani dealer in France http://www.auxchateauxdusudouest.com/pagani-zonda-... .
Do you know what they are asking for that?Streetrod said:
If you decide to get into body work changes then your expenditure is going to go through the roof. The front and rear clam shells are very large and complex pieces. Yes the F body work is more aero dynamic but I am not sure the differences you would feel are worth the investment. You would probably get a better aero effect by adding the Cinque front splitter and rear diffuser for a fraction of the cost. Plus I have never seen an S with them fitted so that would be an original look
I know it will be very expensive to go down that route. What I was thinking about was how much the 760 engine relies on the air from the roof scope etc. If it's needed then it will mean the costs start getting a lot more expensive, and what he wants the final design to look like could have limitations. In regards to the aero stuff, I think it was Andy who mentioned about getting a F diffuser to help balance the new bodywork at the front.NRS said:
Streetrod said:
If you decide to get into body work changes then your expenditure is going to go through the roof. The front and rear clam shells are very large and complex pieces. Yes the F body work is more aero dynamic but I am not sure the differences you would feel are worth the investment. You would probably get a better aero effect by adding the Cinque front splitter and rear diffuser for a fraction of the cost. Plus I have never seen an S with them fitted so that would be an original look
I know it will be very expensive to go down that route. What I was thinking about was how much the 760 engine relies on the air from the roof scope etc. If it's needed then it will mean the costs start getting a lot more expensive, and what he wants the final design to look like could have limitations. In regards to the aero stuff, I think it was Andy who mentioned about getting a F diffuser to help balance the new bodywork at the front.Streetrod said:
The Cinque and the 760 engine do not have to have the roof scoop to produce the power they do. The engines breath in from the same place as an F engine so a standard F rear clam shell would suffice. I have umm'd and ahh'd about the roof scoop and have finally come down on the side of not wanting one if it was my car. One of the best bits about a Zonda compared to most super cars is the fact that you can see out the back, the roof scoop ruins this view. Plus after much thought I have come to the conclusion the roof scoop does nothing for the profile of the car. But that’s just me
So is the roof scoop just for show then?Obi Wan said:
Streetrod said:
The Cinque and the 760 engine do not have to have the roof scoop to produce the power they do. The engines breath in from the same place as an F engine so a standard F rear clam shell would suffice. I have umm'd and ahh'd about the roof scoop and have finally come down on the side of not wanting one if it was my car. One of the best bits about a Zonda compared to most super cars is the fact that you can see out the back, the roof scoop ruins this view. Plus after much thought I have come to the conclusion the roof scoop does nothing for the profile of the car. But that’s just me
So is the roof scoop just for show then?Justices said:
traxx said:
zondaboy said:
he didn't already know of this little beauty from the Pagani dealer in France http://www.auxchateauxdusudouest.com/pagani-zonda-... .
Do you know what they are asking for that?NRS said:
darksider said:
I even remember watching 2 pretty girls jump into that very Zonda just outside the casino haha. Looks like the Zonda has many other "uses" besides driving fast. But hey, when you have a million dollar supercar, you try to get the most out of it right?
Looks like it wasn't only you, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V5NOHgjORRo
Whether the roof scoop is purely cosmetic or not, I want it as part of the complete package. The car ultimately has to look exactly like a Cinque because that's the Zonda I originally fell in love with. The only thing I would change is getting rid of any exposed carbon fiber - the entire paint job has to be lacquered.
I will inquire about that French Zonda that's currently for sale - 850k isn't that bad of a asking price!
I will inquire about that French Zonda that's currently for sale - 850k isn't that bad of a asking price!
Streetrod said:
It could be argued that the roof scoop provides a ram air effect at speed as the scoop sits in cleaner air, but that air has to travel a longer way to get too the engine. On a standard F the engine breaths in from the scoops on the rear body work and has a shorter travel path. So is it just for show? I suspect so
I wonder though, when the GJ was upgraded he didn't go for the Cinque engine and so on, only the diffuser. Why would he have "only" upgraded to F spec underneath? It could be he liked the F version more/ didn't want to pay more. But I wonder if it could be a result of needing the scope etc, which would have made it a far more expensive upgrade than just to F-spec. You mentioned about the engine breathing, but you would also need a bit more cooling too.darksider said:
Whether the roof scoop is purely cosmetic or not, I want it as part of the complete package. The car ultimately has to look exactly like a Cinque because that's the Zonda I originally fell in love with. The only thing I would change is getting rid of any exposed carbon fiber - the entire paint job has to be lacquered.
I will inquire about that French Zonda that's currently for sale - 850k isn't that bad of a asking price!
It is actually a high asking price - with the normal S cars going for something like £450 000, then the S version at Amian cars going for 750 000 euros then it's perhaps not worth it. Quite a few of the F parts there will be removed if you upgrade it anyway, so there is no point paying for more.I will inquire about that French Zonda that's currently for sale - 850k isn't that bad of a asking price!
Also if you're going for bodywork changes then it's going to get very expensive very quickly. The body parts will almost certainly be over £250 000 at a minimum. E.g. rear clamshell needed to the scope, NACA ducts in this car and so on.
zondaboy said:
Justices said:
traxx said:
zondaboy said:
he didn't already know of this little beauty from the Pagani dealer in France http://www.auxchateauxdusudouest.com/pagani-zonda-... .
Do you know what they are asking for that?Gassing Station | Supercar General | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff