Quick question - Enzo respray
Discussion
Candellara said:
Tough one....and TBH, not qualified to answer as i don't currently own a car of that value / importance. From a collectors point of view i'd guess there are people on both sides?
If i was buying for a collection, i'd want it pristine and recognise that it's a car that needs paint due to age and use. If the car was purchased to "use", stonechips wouldn't be significant?
Be interesting to hear Andy's feelings on the matter
Tough call. Looking at the recent barn find astons and ferraris the best value is to leave standard and not restore. I decided to spray the the f1 as the original paintwork had faded and also overall condition of the car was deteriorating. If i was buying for a collection, i'd want it pristine and recognise that it's a car that needs paint due to age and use. If the car was purchased to "use", stonechips wouldn't be significant?
Be interesting to hear Andy's feelings on the matter
In the eyes of a collector a mint low miles car with original paint is always the ultimate but I actually want to use mine.
Interesting discussion. Many top end cars are far from original: whether a new owner wanted a change of interior, or simply a different exhaust etc. so, to my mind, unless it's the 100% originality that is specifically sought, a more perfect-than-factory finish would be more desirable.
This is a discussion that is currently polarising the classic car community. On one side you have the guys who will not acknowledge a car as original unless it still has the same air in the tyres it lest the factory with, and on the other the people who restore to better than new. Just to add to the party we now have those that advocate what are called "sympathetic restorations" that try their best to replicate the factory finish all warts and all.
Personally I think all these stances are academic, because as soon as you use a car it fails to ever be original again.
The fuss about barn finds I find a little confusing. If you wish to capture a moment in time then a barn find should be consigned to a museum and hermetically sealed, but where is the fun in that? Cars are at their best when they can be seen, heard and smelled on the move on a road.
If you keep a barn find as is it will only continue to fall to pieces, eventually it will return to the earth. So I say restore and enjoy, then pass onto the next generation to enjoy again
Personally I think all these stances are academic, because as soon as you use a car it fails to ever be original again.
The fuss about barn finds I find a little confusing. If you wish to capture a moment in time then a barn find should be consigned to a museum and hermetically sealed, but where is the fun in that? Cars are at their best when they can be seen, heard and smelled on the move on a road.
If you keep a barn find as is it will only continue to fall to pieces, eventually it will return to the earth. So I say restore and enjoy, then pass onto the next generation to enjoy again
snuffle said:
On a fibreglass car I would be happier to know that it hadn't been baked.
Not really you would bake at low temps say 20 deg c and yes this would be the same as the outside atmosphere temp, But it would be filtered clean "dry" air and the moisture content would be much lower.
so a lot less contamination and chance for bloom with regards to moisture and damp
Kelly
kds keltec said:
Not really you would bake at low temps say 20 deg c and yes this would be the same as the outside atmosphere temp,
But it would be filtered clean "dry" air and the moisture content would be much lower.
so a lot less contamination and chance for bloom with regards to moisture and damp
Kelly
I take it that you're not using water based paints then But it would be filtered clean "dry" air and the moisture content would be much lower.
so a lot less contamination and chance for bloom with regards to moisture and damp
Kelly
kds keltec said:
Not really you would bake at low temps say 20 deg c and yes this would be the same as the outside atmosphere temp,
But it would be filtered clean "dry" air and the moisture content would be much lower.
so a lot less contamination and chance for bloom with regards to moisture and damp
Kelly
I have a great deal of respect for your knowledge and ability , so I will accept your opinion,But it would be filtered clean "dry" air and the moisture content would be much lower.
so a lot less contamination and chance for bloom with regards to moisture and damp
Kelly
but surely what you stated above is that the car is not baked, it is just sprayed in a booth with full air quality and temperature control.
snuffle said:
I have a great deal of respect for your knowledge and ability , so I will accept your opinion,
but surely what you stated above is that the car is not baked, it is just sprayed in a booth with full air quality and temperature control.
may be some confusion , i was stating that even at 20 deg c in oven is still different to "air" drying. but surely what you stated above is that the car is not baked, it is just sprayed in a booth with full air quality and temperature control.
i would not actually bake at 20 deg c but you can and some do use paint that can flash off at room temp and will cross link slowly afterwards .
plastics and fibreglass we would bake at bit higher but not at full temp.
Some paint WILL only cross link properly (giving you the long lasting hard waring finish) at a certain panel temp which must be cured within a certain window of time after the last layer / coat of top coat goes on, if this temp and window is missed then the cross linking is never as strong even thou the paint is dry.
its as i said the oven opens up to all the types of paint to be used .
kelly
Jaykaybi said:
I'm really hesitant about posting this, because it's quite brazenly pissing on someone else's parade and at the end of the day if the customer is happy then the job was good enough, but I'm looking at the pics of that TVR and I can't help thinking it looks like a result I'd reject.
The amount of swirl marks and machine marring evident is unacceptable, IMHO. If I get a new paint job on my pride and joy, I want it to look like new paint - surely that's not unreasonable?
Hi Chaps, I have the TVR in the pics & all I'll say is you have to see his work in the flesh. If you can see swirl marks then you have better eyes than me chap. The amount of swirl marks and machine marring evident is unacceptable, IMHO. If I get a new paint job on my pride and joy, I want it to look like new paint - surely that's not unreasonable?
Like a new car, really.
I have personally inspected about 5 or 6 cars done at Alsa Automotive, and of those there was 1 that I could tolerate. It was OK for the money.
Look - it is a very personal thing. Most people have no eye for these things and to them it looks like a great job. My dad was a paint specialist and I cringe when I see most work out there.
If you are happy with the work, then you've gotten a bargain. But there is a reason why the top guys charge 12k or more, and why they have clients. Who are, incidentally, very happy to pay that amount. If you think a 4k paint job will give you the same result and still maintain that opinion after having seen it in the flesh, then you just don't have an eye for it. Be grateful, it makes life better not seeing the flaws everywhere.
BTW, "looks like new" is not a qualification of quality, in my opinion. A Ferrari factory paint job is pretty horrible, let alone a TVR one. And I speak from experience on both counts.
Onno
Look - it is a very personal thing. Most people have no eye for these things and to them it looks like a great job. My dad was a paint specialist and I cringe when I see most work out there.
If you are happy with the work, then you've gotten a bargain. But there is a reason why the top guys charge 12k or more, and why they have clients. Who are, incidentally, very happy to pay that amount. If you think a 4k paint job will give you the same result and still maintain that opinion after having seen it in the flesh, then you just don't have an eye for it. Be grateful, it makes life better not seeing the flaws everywhere.
BTW, "looks like new" is not a qualification of quality, in my opinion. A Ferrari factory paint job is pretty horrible, let alone a TVR one. And I speak from experience on both counts.
Onno
pwd95 said:
You know what I mean though, shirley...
What I know is that you mean that it looks great. And so I repeat: if you're happy, kudos to you. What I can guarantee is that if I park my Griff next to yours you will see the difference. And that is fine, I paid a lot more money than you did.So - all I am saying is: if you say that Alsa gave you result that you're happy with for the money you paid, excellent! If you think Alsa is giving you the best achievable regardless of price, then you just haven't seen what is possible.
I like your 420 BTW, enjoy it in good health! Hope to see you out on the roads one day.
Onno
snuffle said:
I thought this was a forum for people that enjoyed cars, not a point scoring exercise.
It isn't a point scoring exercise at all. The point of a forum is to inform people about what is available out there, is it not? I was unaware of the differences in quality available before I got involved with restorations about 3 years ago and I am offering my experience for other people to hopefully help them make their choices. NOT, as I have said before, for them to make the same choices I made, but to be more informed before they make their own.It is about ensuring you're happy with your choice, and stay happy with it. It is not about what you (or I) spend. But there is no denying that, on average, better quality will cost more. Not a new concept.
Onno
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