Why does everyone slate Paddle Shift gearboxes?
Discussion
I think it depends what car you're driving.
Without any doubt these boxes are getting better, and frankly, if it does the business then it's a good thing...
However, with some cars the manual gearchange is part of the experience. I have a very limited experience of Ferraris, but one of the things that enriches the experience for me (and is vital when I buy my first Ferrari) is the clacking as you go through the gears !
Whether an F1 box is better or not is irrelevant in this case, for me anyhow.
Without any doubt these boxes are getting better, and frankly, if it does the business then it's a good thing...
However, with some cars the manual gearchange is part of the experience. I have a very limited experience of Ferraris, but one of the things that enriches the experience for me (and is vital when I buy my first Ferrari) is the clacking as you go through the gears !
Whether an F1 box is better or not is irrelevant in this case, for me anyhow.
!!!! 
ajaym said:
exint2 said:
Jeremy Carkson and the top gear gang are always slagging of "flappy paddle shifts" , as are members of this forum - but why?
It's almost certainly because the early systems were shite. They were awful, memorably so, as the replies here tell you. They'e taken years to perfect (and are still not quite there), certainly long enough for people to get prejudiced and stay that way.
Have disagree slightly with you on this one Kev. The early 360 TCU was bad but they modified this on the 2002 cars onwards, however the 355 F1 was a much better system. This is because of the linkage difference the 355 had a mechanical linkage and the 360 electrical. The 360 TCU is simply trying to do too many things at once hence the jerk. The shift on the 355 "feels" a lot quicker and smoother than the shift on the 360. The only downside to the 355 F1 is that it doesnt blip the throttle on downshifts.
The Audi/Lamborghini paddle shift is a signoficant improvement over Ferraris in my opinion because it pre selects the next gear -effectively a dual clutch system. That is why the upshift feels a lot smoother on the Lambos than the Ferraris. Also if I am not mistaken the Audi system allows you to use launch control at will without destroying the clutch in 5 goes, a la 360CS
also have to agree with you here the last 355F1 were significantly better than the early 360 which was supposed to be more advanced because of fly by wire.
Hmmm
Ok, I'm slightly perplexed here.
I notice the reference to "Sequential" 'boxes and seperate references to "Paddle Shifts"
As I understand things, a sequential shift is an UP/DOWN movement of a traditional gearlever, ie the driver taps it towards him to shift up, and taps it away from him in order to shift down.
Have I got this right?
Ok, I'm slightly perplexed here.
I notice the reference to "Sequential" 'boxes and seperate references to "Paddle Shifts"
As I understand things, a sequential shift is an UP/DOWN movement of a traditional gearlever, ie the driver taps it towards him to shift up, and taps it away from him in order to shift down.
Have I got this right?
You're realy talking anbout 3 types of gearbox here is you want to be correct.
Firstly conventional Autos with torque converters and all the losses they can mean, some of which can come with +/- buttons on the steering wheel or lever. Think Aston DB9, Any Merc or Tiptronic Audi etc.
Secondly robotised manuals, which are a manual box and clutch with hydraulic actuators attached and usualy steering wheel paddles. Think BMW SMG, Ferrari F1, Maserati Cambiocorsa
Thirdly Sequential gearboxes in which you can't jump gears but have to go through them in sequence. Think Motorbikes & some race cars, not realy used on road cars.
Then you've got the Audi DSG which is a manual with 2 clutches & layshafts which pre selects the next gear on the unused layshaft and disengages one cluch and simultaneously engages the other.
Firstly conventional Autos with torque converters and all the losses they can mean, some of which can come with +/- buttons on the steering wheel or lever. Think Aston DB9, Any Merc or Tiptronic Audi etc.
Secondly robotised manuals, which are a manual box and clutch with hydraulic actuators attached and usualy steering wheel paddles. Think BMW SMG, Ferrari F1, Maserati Cambiocorsa
Thirdly Sequential gearboxes in which you can't jump gears but have to go through them in sequence. Think Motorbikes & some race cars, not realy used on road cars.
Then you've got the Audi DSG which is a manual with 2 clutches & layshafts which pre selects the next gear on the unused layshaft and disengages one cluch and simultaneously engages the other.
In the case of BMWs SMG it's marketing bull. It isn't a true sequential gearbox. Flick the paddle twice and it'll go directly from say 2nd th 4th. Same on the other paddle shift boxes. Also come to a standstill in 5th and it'll go straight from 5th to 1st.
Take a look on the BMW website and you can see it's a normal manual gearbox with actuators attached.
A true sequential uses a very different selector mechanism and has to work in sequence, which makes them rather crap on road cars, but they do change very quickly which is why they are used on race cars.
Take a look on the BMW website and you can see it's a normal manual gearbox with actuators attached.
A true sequential uses a very different selector mechanism and has to work in sequence, which makes them rather crap on road cars, but they do change very quickly which is why they are used on race cars.
bertie said:Is this the type on the Jaguar-Palmer JP1 cars then Bertie? If so, I can see what you mean. They do have a clutch pedal, and you use it to get first and when you're going down through the 'box. Going up through the gears you don't use the clutch, but it needs a pretty meaty shove to make sure the next gear gets engaged. I wouldn't want to use one on a road car.
A true sequential uses a very different selector mechanism and has to work in sequence, which makes them rather crap on road cars, but they do change very quickly which is why they are used on race cars.
K
456mgt said:
A true sequential uses a very different selector mechanism and has to work in sequence, which makes them rather crap on road cars, but they do change very quickly which is why they are used on race cars.
Is this the type on the Jaguar-Palmer JP1 cars then Bertie? If so, I can see what you mean. They do have a clutch pedal, and you use it to get first and when you're going down through the 'box. Going up through the gears you don't use the clutch, but it needs a pretty meaty shove to make sure the next gear gets engaged. I wouldn't want to use one on a road car.
K
Spot on Kev, that's a true sequential box.
You can of course smooth the changes by using the clutch as people do on bike engined cars, but they can be kida clunky!
My wife's Alfa had a semi-auto gearbox, and I liked it, but it had several very annoying habits:
1) "Ooh, you've dropped below 2000 rpm, so I'll change down for you." At the same moment, I would tell it to change down a gear. The box would get two messages to change down, and so it would drop down two gears. It's not nice getting second when you want third.
2) Getting reverse was fiddly. You need to be stationary, with your foot on the brake. Sounds resonable, but in practice it would sometimes decide you hadn't pressed the brake quite hard enough, and fail to do anything.
3) "You've been in reverse too long. I'll go into neutral for you". When reversing out of a parking space, you may need to wait a moment to let another car past. When an opportunity comes, you don't really want to suddenly find yourself in netral!
4) "You've almost stopped, I'll select first for you". You arrive at a junction, you can see that there's a gap, so you put your foot down to pull away. The revs flare, and nothing happens because you're in the middle of an unexpected gear change. Then the car lurches forwards as the clutch finally engages.
How does this compare with Ferrari systems?
1) "Ooh, you've dropped below 2000 rpm, so I'll change down for you." At the same moment, I would tell it to change down a gear. The box would get two messages to change down, and so it would drop down two gears. It's not nice getting second when you want third.
2) Getting reverse was fiddly. You need to be stationary, with your foot on the brake. Sounds resonable, but in practice it would sometimes decide you hadn't pressed the brake quite hard enough, and fail to do anything.
3) "You've been in reverse too long. I'll go into neutral for you". When reversing out of a parking space, you may need to wait a moment to let another car past. When an opportunity comes, you don't really want to suddenly find yourself in netral!
4) "You've almost stopped, I'll select first for you". You arrive at a junction, you can see that there's a gap, so you put your foot down to pull away. The revs flare, and nothing happens because you're in the middle of an unexpected gear change. Then the car lurches forwards as the clutch finally engages.
How does this compare with Ferrari systems?
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