Have you read this about Ferrari's PR machine?
Discussion
http://ca.jalopnik.com/5760248/how-ferrari-spins
Not sure whether I am allowed to cross link from another website. But I guess I will find out soon enough.
It kinda makes sense what they are doing, but I am shocked that they are doing it. Is it only Ferrari though? When PH tests Ferraris is it under these conditions as well???
Not sure whether I am allowed to cross link from another website. But I guess I will find out soon enough.
It kinda makes sense what they are doing, but I am shocked that they are doing it. Is it only Ferrari though? When PH tests Ferraris is it under these conditions as well???
it's been posted elsewhere 
:
I told the blokes here at Jalopnik I was pissed at Ferrari and wanted to tell a few people. They said I could do it here. Stay with me, this might take a while.
I think it started in 2007 when I heard that Ferrari wanted to know which test track we were going to use for Autocar's 599 GTB road test, but in reality the rot had set in many years earlier. Why would it want to know that? "Because," said the man from the Autocar office, "The factory now has to send a test team to the circuit we chose so that they can optimize the car to get the best performance from it." They duly went to the track, tested for a day, crashed the car, went back to the factory to mend the car, returned, tested and then invited us to drive this "standard" 599. They must have been having a laugh.
Sad to say it, but the ecstasy of driving a new Ferrari is now almost always eradicated by the pain of dealing with the organization. Why am I bothering to tell you this? Because I'm pissed with the whole thing now. It's gotten out of control; to the point that it will soon be pointless believing anything you read about its cars through the usual channels, because the only way you get access is playing by its rules.
Like anyone with half a brain, I've been willing to cut Ferrari some slack because it is, well, Ferrari –- the most famous fast car brand of all and the maker of cars that everyone wants to know about. Bang out a video of yourself drifting a new Jag XKR on YouTube and 17 people watch it; do the same in a 430 Scuderia and the audience is 500,000 strong. As a journalist, those numbers make you willing to accommodate truck-loads of bulls
t, but I've had enough now. I couldn't care if I never drive a new Ferrari again, if it means I never have to deal with the insane communication machine and continue lying about the lengths to which Ferrari will bend any rule to get what it wants. Which is just as well, because I don't think I'm going to be invited back to Maranello any time soon. Shame, the food's bloody marvelous.
How bad has it been? I honestly don't know where to start. Perhaps the 360 Modena press car that was two seconds faster to 100mph than the customer car we also tested. You allow some leeway for "factory fresh" machines, but this thing was ludicrously quick and sounded more like Schumacher's weekend wheels than a street car. Ferrari will never admit that its press cars are tuned, but has the gall to turn up at any of the big European magazines' end-of-year-shindig-tests with two cars. One for straight line work, the other for handling exercises. Because that's what happens when you buy a 458: they deliver two for just those eventualities. The whole thing stinks. In any other industry it wouldn't be allowed to happen. It's dishonest, but all the mags take it between the cheeks because they're too scared of not being invited to drive the next new Ferrari.
Remember the awesome 430 Scuderia? What a car that was, and still is. One English magazine went along with all the cheating-bullst because the cars did seem to be representative of what a customer might get to drive, but then during the dyno session, the "standard" tires stuck themselves to the rollers.
And this is the nub: how fking paranoid do you have to be to put even stickier rubber on a Scuderia? It's like John Holmes having an extra two inches grafted onto his dick. I mean it's not as if, according to your own communication, you're not a clear market leader and maker of the best sports cars in the world now, is it?
What Ferrari plainly cannot see is that its strategy to win every test at any cost is completely counter-productive. First, it completely undermines the amazing work of its own engineers. What does it say about a 458 if the only way its maker is willing to loan it to a magazine is if a laptop can be plugged in after every journey and a dedicated team needs to spend several days at the chosen test track to set-up the car? It says they're completely nuts –- behavior that looks even worse when rival brands just hand over their car with nothing more than a polite suggestion that you should avoid crashing it too heavily, and then return a week later.
Point two: the internet is good for three things: free porn, Jalopnik and spreading information. Fifteen years ago, if your 355 wasn't as fast as the maker claimed you could give the supplying dealer a headache, whine at the local owners club and not much besides. Nowadays you spray your message around the globe and every bugger knows about it in minutes. So, when we used an owner's 430 Scud because Ferrari wouldn't lend us the test car, it was obliterated in a straight line by a GT2 and a Lambo LP 560-4, despite all the "official" road test figures suggesting it was faster than Halley's Comet. The forums went nuts and some Scud owners rightly felt they hadn't been delivered the car they'd read about in all the buff books. Talk about karma slapping you in the face.
It's the level of control that's so profoundly irritating and I think damaging to the brand. Once you know that it takes a full support crew and two 458s to supply those amazing stats, it then takes the shine off the car. The simple message from Ferrari is that unless you play exactly by the laws they lay down, you're off the list.
What are those laws? Apart from the laughable track test stuff, as a journalist you are expressly forbidden from driving any current Ferrari road car without permission from the factory. So if I want to drive my mate's 458 tomorrow, I have to ask the factory. Will it allow me to drive the car? No: because it is of "unknown provenance," i.e. not tuned. I'm almost tempted to buy a 458, just for the joy of phoning Maranello every morning and asking if its OK if I take my kid to school.
Where I've personally run into trouble is by using owners' cars for comparison tests. Ferrari absolutely hates this; even if you say unremittingly nice things about its cars, it goes ape st. But you want to see a 458 against a GT3 RS so I'm going to deliver that story and that video. Likewise the 599 GTO and the GT2 RS. Ferrari honestly believes it can control every aspect of the media — it has actively intervened several times when I've asked to borrow owners' cars.
The control freakery is getting worse: for the FF launch in March journalists have to say which outlets they are writing it for and those have to be approved by Maranello. Honestly, we're perilously close to having the words and verdicts vetted by the Ferrari press office before they're released, which of course has always been the way in some markets.
Should I give a st about this stuff? Probably not. It's not like it's a life-and-death situation; supercars are pretty unserious tackle. But the best thing about car nuts is that they let you drive their cars, and Ferrari has absolutely no chance stopping people like me driving what they want to drive. Of course their attempts to stop me makes it an even better sport and merely hardens my resolve, but the sad thing is its cars are so good it doesn't need all this ste. I'll repeat that for the benefit of any vestige of a chance I might have of ever driving a Ferrari press car ever again (which is virtually none). "Its cars are so good it doesn't need this ste."
None of this will make any difference to Ferrari. I'm just an irrelevant Limey who doesn't really matter. But I've had enough of concealing what goes on, to the point that I no longer want to be a Ferrari owner, a de-facto member of its bullst-control-edifice. I sold my 575 before Christmas. As pathetic protests go, you have to agree it's high quality.
Jesus, this is now sounding like a properly depressing rant. I'll leave it there. Just remember all this stuff then next time you read a magazine group test with a prancing stallion in it.
Chris Harris is a UK-based freelance car writer who once bought a 1995 512 TR but sold it when his mates called him Tubbs and put Jan Hammer on his iPod.
:I told the blokes here at Jalopnik I was pissed at Ferrari and wanted to tell a few people. They said I could do it here. Stay with me, this might take a while.
I think it started in 2007 when I heard that Ferrari wanted to know which test track we were going to use for Autocar's 599 GTB road test, but in reality the rot had set in many years earlier. Why would it want to know that? "Because," said the man from the Autocar office, "The factory now has to send a test team to the circuit we chose so that they can optimize the car to get the best performance from it." They duly went to the track, tested for a day, crashed the car, went back to the factory to mend the car, returned, tested and then invited us to drive this "standard" 599. They must have been having a laugh.
Sad to say it, but the ecstasy of driving a new Ferrari is now almost always eradicated by the pain of dealing with the organization. Why am I bothering to tell you this? Because I'm pissed with the whole thing now. It's gotten out of control; to the point that it will soon be pointless believing anything you read about its cars through the usual channels, because the only way you get access is playing by its rules.
Like anyone with half a brain, I've been willing to cut Ferrari some slack because it is, well, Ferrari –- the most famous fast car brand of all and the maker of cars that everyone wants to know about. Bang out a video of yourself drifting a new Jag XKR on YouTube and 17 people watch it; do the same in a 430 Scuderia and the audience is 500,000 strong. As a journalist, those numbers make you willing to accommodate truck-loads of bulls
t, but I've had enough now. I couldn't care if I never drive a new Ferrari again, if it means I never have to deal with the insane communication machine and continue lying about the lengths to which Ferrari will bend any rule to get what it wants. Which is just as well, because I don't think I'm going to be invited back to Maranello any time soon. Shame, the food's bloody marvelous.How bad has it been? I honestly don't know where to start. Perhaps the 360 Modena press car that was two seconds faster to 100mph than the customer car we also tested. You allow some leeway for "factory fresh" machines, but this thing was ludicrously quick and sounded more like Schumacher's weekend wheels than a street car. Ferrari will never admit that its press cars are tuned, but has the gall to turn up at any of the big European magazines' end-of-year-shindig-tests with two cars. One for straight line work, the other for handling exercises. Because that's what happens when you buy a 458: they deliver two for just those eventualities. The whole thing stinks. In any other industry it wouldn't be allowed to happen. It's dishonest, but all the mags take it between the cheeks because they're too scared of not being invited to drive the next new Ferrari.
Remember the awesome 430 Scuderia? What a car that was, and still is. One English magazine went along with all the cheating-bulls
t because the cars did seem to be representative of what a customer might get to drive, but then during the dyno session, the "standard" tires stuck themselves to the rollers.And this is the nub: how f
king paranoid do you have to be to put even stickier rubber on a Scuderia? It's like John Holmes having an extra two inches grafted onto his dick. I mean it's not as if, according to your own communication, you're not a clear market leader and maker of the best sports cars in the world now, is it?What Ferrari plainly cannot see is that its strategy to win every test at any cost is completely counter-productive. First, it completely undermines the amazing work of its own engineers. What does it say about a 458 if the only way its maker is willing to loan it to a magazine is if a laptop can be plugged in after every journey and a dedicated team needs to spend several days at the chosen test track to set-up the car? It says they're completely nuts –- behavior that looks even worse when rival brands just hand over their car with nothing more than a polite suggestion that you should avoid crashing it too heavily, and then return a week later.
Point two: the internet is good for three things: free porn, Jalopnik and spreading information. Fifteen years ago, if your 355 wasn't as fast as the maker claimed you could give the supplying dealer a headache, whine at the local owners club and not much besides. Nowadays you spray your message around the globe and every bugger knows about it in minutes. So, when we used an owner's 430 Scud because Ferrari wouldn't lend us the test car, it was obliterated in a straight line by a GT2 and a Lambo LP 560-4, despite all the "official" road test figures suggesting it was faster than Halley's Comet. The forums went nuts and some Scud owners rightly felt they hadn't been delivered the car they'd read about in all the buff books. Talk about karma slapping you in the face.
It's the level of control that's so profoundly irritating and I think damaging to the brand. Once you know that it takes a full support crew and two 458s to supply those amazing stats, it then takes the shine off the car. The simple message from Ferrari is that unless you play exactly by the laws they lay down, you're off the list.
What are those laws? Apart from the laughable track test stuff, as a journalist you are expressly forbidden from driving any current Ferrari road car without permission from the factory. So if I want to drive my mate's 458 tomorrow, I have to ask the factory. Will it allow me to drive the car? No: because it is of "unknown provenance," i.e. not tuned. I'm almost tempted to buy a 458, just for the joy of phoning Maranello every morning and asking if its OK if I take my kid to school.
Where I've personally run into trouble is by using owners' cars for comparison tests. Ferrari absolutely hates this; even if you say unremittingly nice things about its cars, it goes ape s
t. But you want to see a 458 against a GT3 RS so I'm going to deliver that story and that video. Likewise the 599 GTO and the GT2 RS. Ferrari honestly believes it can control every aspect of the media — it has actively intervened several times when I've asked to borrow owners' cars.The control freakery is getting worse: for the FF launch in March journalists have to say which outlets they are writing it for and those have to be approved by Maranello. Honestly, we're perilously close to having the words and verdicts vetted by the Ferrari press office before they're released, which of course has always been the way in some markets.
Should I give a s
t about this stuff? Probably not. It's not like it's a life-and-death situation; supercars are pretty unserious tackle. But the best thing about car nuts is that they let you drive their cars, and Ferrari has absolutely no chance stopping people like me driving what they want to drive. Of course their attempts to stop me makes it an even better sport and merely hardens my resolve, but the sad thing is its cars are so good it doesn't need all this ste. I'll repeat that for the benefit of any vestige of a chance I might have of ever driving a Ferrari press car ever again (which is virtually none). "Its cars are so good it doesn't need this ste."None of this will make any difference to Ferrari. I'm just an irrelevant Limey who doesn't really matter. But I've had enough of concealing what goes on, to the point that I no longer want to be a Ferrari owner, a de-facto member of its bulls
t-control-edifice. I sold my 575 before Christmas. As pathetic protests go, you have to agree it's high quality.Jesus, this is now sounding like a properly depressing rant. I'll leave it there. Just remember all this stuff then next time you read a magazine group test with a prancing stallion in it.
Chris Harris is a UK-based freelance car writer who once bought a 1995 512 TR but sold it when his mates called him Tubbs and put Jan Hammer on his iPod.
Brave man. Someone eventually had to go public on this even if it means never being given a Ferrari to test ever again. I guess Chris Harris now feels he has sufficient standing in the journo community that a manufacturer cannot simply refuse to have him test their cars. Or maybe he just doesn't give a stuff, in which case good on him.
FWIW, I've met a number of journos who've expressed the same thing in private and led me to believe that much of what we read in supposedly independent publications is sophisticated PR.
And also FWIW, it's the reason why I've decided not to buy Ferrari again. As a manufacturer, they just don't have enough integrity for me.
FWIW, I've met a number of journos who've expressed the same thing in private and led me to believe that much of what we read in supposedly independent publications is sophisticated PR.
And also FWIW, it's the reason why I've decided not to buy Ferrari again. As a manufacturer, they just don't have enough integrity for me.
Very interesting post Andrew. We had a guest speak from the F1 industry at a conference recently - some of the things he had to say about how Ferrari conduct their business confirmed my view of them, and your post has added to this.
Over and above which, there is something just a bit "naff" about Ferrari. Maybe it's the merchandise, or the fact it's the default supercar of choice by the unimaginative... not sure, but it stinks.
Over and above which, there is something just a bit "naff" about Ferrari. Maybe it's the merchandise, or the fact it's the default supercar of choice by the unimaginative... not sure, but it stinks.
johnnyreggae said:
Isn't this a tradition for many manufacturers over the years such as Jaguar with the E type allegedly
Most manufacturers take great care to ensure that their press cars are built to the highest standard, for example there are lots of stories out there about press / launch TVR's that were far quicker than the cars delivered to customers.
With Ferrari, its nothing new, take the first Dino road test for example, the car used didn’t come from Ferrari, it was Pininfarinas own car that Paul Frere was loaned!
Although I do think that the rather short term view the current management at Maranello seem to have taken to many aspects of the business, will come back and bite them in the posterior at some time in the future
He is absolutely right. This has been happening for years. I remember having a look and being told in detail about the special 360CS they loaned to the press for tests against the GT3RS and that the journo's were driving around Fiorano. Remember that top gear test when they sent Luca Badoer (!) to drive the 360CS against Clarkson in the 996RS?
Anyway, I was secretly told, that 360CS had no cats (not road legal), Revised ECU (not found on later road car), modified induction (from 360 challenge car not found on later road car, radically different suspension geometry (not found on later road car) and loads of non-homologated 360 Challenge bits.
Want to feel ripped off? Test your Ferrari on the dyno. My experience, power quoted for CS 420bhp - dyno my mates and it's around 390bhp. Power quoted for 360M - 400bhp - dyno and it's 360bhp. Power quoted for 355 - 380bhp - dyno and it's 320bhp(!)). Power quoted for 430 - 480bhp - dyno mine and it's 450bhp. By comparison, power quoted for 996 GT3RS - 380hp - mine drove like the clappers - dyno and it's 408bhp.
Want to cry some more? Put the lightweight ones on the scales and weigh them...
I cannot stand their bullcrap either. Anyone remember that German customer who sued them because he said his car wouldnt reach their claimed speed? haha! I LOVE the way they've been found out with the 458 - the new Mclaren has just killed it in the performance stakes. I'm sure they'll learn.
Will it stop me buying their cars? Probably not. Just wish they'd stop being lying a55holes. We'd still buy the cars.
Anyway, I was secretly told, that 360CS had no cats (not road legal), Revised ECU (not found on later road car), modified induction (from 360 challenge car not found on later road car, radically different suspension geometry (not found on later road car) and loads of non-homologated 360 Challenge bits.
Want to feel ripped off? Test your Ferrari on the dyno. My experience, power quoted for CS 420bhp - dyno my mates and it's around 390bhp. Power quoted for 360M - 400bhp - dyno and it's 360bhp. Power quoted for 355 - 380bhp - dyno and it's 320bhp(!)). Power quoted for 430 - 480bhp - dyno mine and it's 450bhp. By comparison, power quoted for 996 GT3RS - 380hp - mine drove like the clappers - dyno and it's 408bhp.
Want to cry some more? Put the lightweight ones on the scales and weigh them...
I cannot stand their bullcrap either. Anyone remember that German customer who sued them because he said his car wouldnt reach their claimed speed? haha! I LOVE the way they've been found out with the 458 - the new Mclaren has just killed it in the performance stakes. I'm sure they'll learn.
Will it stop me buying their cars? Probably not. Just wish they'd stop being lying a55holes. We'd still buy the cars.
traxx said:
As already said do you really think anyone else is different
Even in the last few days we have read about the new Mclaren but have you noticed all the comments about how the customer cars will not be quite so quick or have the same settings
Agree. Anybody who believes manufacterer claims like bhp and weight is a bit naiveEven in the last few days we have read about the new Mclaren but have you noticed all the comments about how the customer cars will not be quite so quick or have the same settings
It is sad that manufacturers feel the need to do these things as it potentially misrepresents the products they produce and as stated questions the brings into question the integrity of the organisation
Many years ago a friend bought an Arnage having had a string of turbo R's and could get nowhere near the 0-60 it just wouldn't do it I sat in and witnessed the results and lethargy
It went back for a week but came back saying all fine
Eventually they discussed how results where extracted which involved torture
Hold the brake with your left dial in 3500 rpm then step off OUCH !
Not tweaking but is it a factual representation of the cars ability some might say it is but would you subject your cars auto box to that
Many years ago a friend bought an Arnage having had a string of turbo R's and could get nowhere near the 0-60 it just wouldn't do it I sat in and witnessed the results and lethargy
It went back for a week but came back saying all fine
Eventually they discussed how results where extracted which involved torture
Hold the brake with your left dial in 3500 rpm then step off OUCH !
Not tweaking but is it a factual representation of the cars ability some might say it is but would you subject your cars auto box to that
TKH said:
Eventually they discussed how results where extracted which involved torture
Hold the brake with your left dial in 3500 rpm then step off OUCH !
Not tweaking but is it a factual representation of the cars ability some might say it is but would you subject your cars auto box to that
Completely unrelated points. One is cheating, the other is extracting performance figures from a factory standard car.Hold the brake with your left dial in 3500 rpm then step off OUCH !
Not tweaking but is it a factual representation of the cars ability some might say it is but would you subject your cars auto box to that
AndrewD said:
traxx said:
As already said do you really think anyone else is different
Even in the last few days we have read about the new Mclaren but have you noticed all the comments about how the customer cars will not be quite so quick or have the same settings
Agree. Anybody who believes manufacterer claims like bhp and weight is a bit naiveEven in the last few days we have read about the new Mclaren but have you noticed all the comments about how the customer cars will not be quite so quick or have the same settings
It's very underhand and frankly pathetic.
Ferrari simply bully magazines due their place in the automotive hierarchy.
This is the reason I'm not a great Ferrari fan in some ways. Their cars are amazing, but I just don't like any other part of the business. Stick F-badges on things and sell them for a large amount more because of the badge. Not allowing normal customer cars to be used - it has to be set up by Ferrari before etc etc. Ok, other manufacturers may not have fully standard cars, but at least they don't spend hours setting them up perfectly (at least no journalists have hinted at this, whereas Ferrari have been known to do it for a while). The McLaren has now moved things on - obviously Ferrari could have done this but didn't want to do it, because there's now so little room to improve. So it's been a drip-drip of slight improvements.
It'd be great if all journalists as a group told Ferrari they won't test the cars unless they give them standard ones without all the extra crap.
It'd be great if all journalists as a group told Ferrari they won't test the cars unless they give them standard ones without all the extra crap.
Edited by Jerwatt on Wednesday 16th February 08:26
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