Quick question - Enzo respray

[Blukoo]

After showing someone a video of an Enzo detail: http://www.polishedbliss.co.uk/blog/2012/04/enzo-f...

They've basically said it was totally over the top and a complete waste of time as a full respray would have been quicker. (The detail involved 144 hours work).

I said I honestly don't know how long it would take to do a full respray in the original colour, but I'm guessing the detail would have been cheaper than a full respray. Also after the respray, it wouldn't have had a finish as flawless as this and it wouldn't be protected. The wheels, interior and glass wouldn't have been touched with just a respray either.

Now my question is, how much would it be for a full respray on an Enzo? And roughly how many man hours would it take?

Thanks.

Edited by Blukoo on Friday 20th April 13:57

[fyfe]

Alsa have a fixed pricelist here - http://www.alsaautomotive.co.uk/index.php?option=c...

There's no Enzo on the list but these prices will probably give you a rough idea. I think it'd need to be some mighty detailed detailing to rack up these sort of numbers...

[Streetrod]

Ok I have sprayed a number of cars, but I am not a professional, but my cars have been painted to show winning standards. If this Enzo's body is in good shape, i.e. it has no damage then you would not need to strip the car down to bare carbon fibre. But you would need to flat sand the body to create a perfect flaw free base. You would then spray on a sealer to lock in the base coats. This would be followed by 2 - 3 coats of primer which again would be flatted to come up with a perfect base. This would then be followed by 2 - 3 coats of colour. If you were being a perfectionist you would then have to colour sand this colour coat to a perfect matt finish. Once that is flawless you would then spray 2 - 3 coats of clear. Once again you would flat that to remove any trace of orange peel followed by a machine polish and wax. If done right you should end up with a perfect finish.

So how long and how much would this cost. I would expect a minimum of 300 hours work at £50 per hour so that's £15000 in labour with added costs like paint etc expect to pay a minimum of £20,000 from a good paint shop. Now remember that just for paint and does not include any body work

[Streetrod]

fyfe said:

Alsa have a fixed pricelist here - http://www.alsaautomotive.co.uk/index.php?option=c...

There's no Enzo on the list but these prices will probably give you a rough idea. I think it'd need to be some mighty detailed detailing to rack up these sort of numbers...

Wow!! those guys are cheap. Their process as listed is spot on. I would like to see an example of their work. Has anyone used them?

The numbers I have used are based on quotes I have had from a couple of very well known high end body shops well known for work on classic Ferrari's

[Blukoo]

Thanks Streetrod.

[fyfe]

Streetrod said:

Wow!! those guys are cheap. Their process as listed is spot on. I would like to see an example of their work. Has anyone used them?

The numbers I have used are based on quotes I have had from a couple of very well known high end body shops well known for work on classic Ferrari's

I haven't used them but did some research on respray costs recently and their name kept coming up favourably. There's lots of work in progress threads online detailing their work. Here for example http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sJ-r8AMqCe8

Edited by fyfe on Friday 20th April 12:06

[Transmitter Man]

Here's a fellow TVR owner that's just had a respray completed by them.

The thread gets into it after a few pages:

http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a...

Phil

[Desiato]

Streetrod said:

If this Enzo's body is in good shape, i.e. it has no damage then you would not need to strip the car down to bare carbon fibre. But you would need to flat sand the body to create a perfect flaw free base.

At this stage you would be removing all of the visible carbon weave that is normal on Enzos, it's a personal choice but I would want to retain the original look with visible weave.

[Jaykaybi]

Transmitter Man said:

Here's a fellow TVR owner that's just had a respray completed by them.

The thread gets into it after a few pages:

http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a...

Phil

I'm really hesitant about posting this, because it's quite brazenly pissing on someone else's parade and at the end of the day if the customer is happy then the job was good enough, but I'm looking at the pics of that TVR and I can't help thinking it looks like a result I'd reject.





The amount of swirl marks and machine marring evident is unacceptable, IMHO. If I get a new paint job on my pride and joy, I want it to look like new paint - surely that's not unreasonable?

[Streetrod]

Desiato said:

Streetrod said:

If this Enzo's body is in good shape, i.e. it has no damage then you would not need to strip the car down to bare carbon fibre. But you would need to flat sand the body to create a perfect flaw free base.

At this stage you would be removing all of the visible carbon weave that is normal on Enzos, it's a personal choice but I would want to retain the original look with visible weave.

Now that is an interesting point. But here's the thing. The only reason you can see the weave on the Enzo is because the original Ferrari paint job was so bad. The quality of the carbon work is nowhere near as good as you would get on say a Zonda. In fact it’s pretty rough. Also Ferrari tried to save weight by using as little paint as possible.

So if you are to repaint your Enzo to a factory finish you would have to accept an inferior finish which most painters I think would be unwilling to do as it would reflect badly on their skills.

The process I outlined above will result in a far superior product but would not be to factory spec's which is an odd conclusion

[AndrewW-G]

Streetrod said:

Wow!! those guys are cheap. Their process as listed is spot on. I would like to see an example of their work. Has anyone used them?

The numbers I have used are based on quotes I have had from a couple of very well known high end body shops well known for work on classic Ferrari's

Al's work is indeed pretty much faultless, highly recomended

[Try5t]

Streetrod said:

Wow!! those guys are cheap. Their process as listed is spot on. I would like to see an example of their work. Has anyone used them?

The numbers I have used are based on quotes I have had from a couple of very well known high end body shops well known for work on classic Ferrari's

Probably overheads are probably a lot lower where they are located? But are they cheap or just realistic?

Have seen their work first hand and I would have no hesitation in using them if I needed to; I used to do concourse competitions so am also probably more pedantic than most when it comes to things like this. I know a few people on the South Wales forums swear by them as well - never heard a bad report.

[Desiato]

Streetrod said:

Now that is an interesting point. But here's the thing. The only reason you can see the weave on the Enzo is because the original Ferrari paint job was so bad. The quality of the carbon work is nowhere near as good as you would get on say a Zonda. In fact it’s pretty rough. Also Ferrari tried to save weight by using as little paint as possible.

So if you are to repaint your Enzo to a factory finish you would have to accept an inferior finish which most painters I think would be unwilling to do as it would reflect badly on their skills.

The process I outlined above will result in a far superior product but would not be to factory spec's which is an odd conclusion

Totally agree, same conundrum with the early Kevlar SEACs. In the end it is down to the owners choice, not sure which way I would go to be honest as I do like a nice smooth and shiny car

[Candellara]

Streetrod said:

Wow!! those guys are cheap. Their process as listed is spot on. I would like to see an example of their work. Has anyone used them?

Their process as listed has one very significant omission - oven cured? There is no mention of this on the website and critical IMO for acheiving a lasting, durable finish? I'm not knocking their work, i'm sure it's great but No oven = low overhead = low prices?

On a separate note, even a freshly painted car will require significant paint correction. The problem with "most" bodyshops is that the car leaves the oven and is given a "once over" with a mop and some compound. The time spent removing swirls and holograms is something most bodyshops will not do due to time / cost.

Edited by Candellara on Friday 20th April 14:39

Edited by Candellara on Friday 20th April 14:45

[R.P.M]

Sorry, but the price of a respray/detail is completely irrelevant.

It's the originality that's important. So I cant imagine why you would have it repainted unless you really wanted a colour change or the existing paint was damaged beyond repair.

For a repaint I would figure in £12-£15k.

[Streetrod]

Candellara said:

Streetrod said:

Wow!! those guys are cheap. Their process as listed is spot on. I would like to see an example of their work. Has anyone used them?

Their process as listed has one very significant omission - oven cured? There is no mention of this on the website and critical IMO for acheiving a lasting, durable finish?

No oven = low overhead = low prices?

Emmmmm!! The need for an oven will depend on the paint system you are using. In most cases a pro shop will use an oven and given the choice I would too but on the flip side I have produced showing paint jobs without one. Too be honest no decent shop should be without one as the capital costs are not that expensive. £18k - £25k will get you a very decent pro spray booth/oven

[Blukoo]

R.P.M said:

Sorry, but the price of a respray/detail is completely irrelevant.

It's the originality that's important. So I cant imagine why you would have it repainted unless you really wanted a colour change or the existing paint was damaged beyond repair.

For a repaint I would figure in £12-£15k.

I realise that. I was just trying to get some figures to shoot down the other person in the argument.

[AndrewW-G]

Candellara said:

Their process as listed has one very significant omission - oven cured? There is no mention of this on the website and critical IMO for acheiving a lasting, durable finish?

The paint system used by Al, doesnt require baking

[TonyHetherington]

Regarding the carbon weave on an Enzo - interestingly, it's not over the whole thing. It was on the front "bonnet" for example, but not the wings, behind the engine glass but not on the side haunches (considering that whole rear is one piece, that was surprsing). So it did give a very different look and feel depending where on the car you looked.

Also, the fact you can see the weave through the paint in some parts meant the paint was very shallow; thus, not a lot of correction is possible and so when trying to achieve that ultimate finish would make it very difficult (if not impossible, depending on depth).

Personally, having seen first hand the level of detail that Kelly is going through to paint the Enzo, the finish is going to be amazing. And I think "amazing" is an understatement. The whole car will be flat now, but I think that will give it a far more even, far more perfect look.

There will be a similar (though perhaps not as well shot ) full HD video and huge write up of the entire process (the same as what street rod has quoted above) which will be bloomin interesting, I must say

EDIT: I know it was partly for this reason that Kelly installed the oven. He'd had a bodyshop background for many years, then did detailing. Trying to get that perfect finish on factory paints, on outsourced paint jobs etc. was the catalyst for just doing it right himself in the first place!

Edited by TonyHetherington on Friday 20th April 15:00

[Blukoo]

I look forward to seeing and reading that