348's getting more valuable?
Discussion
Hi, been keeping track of prices of various nice pieces of kit with a view to purchasing something in the 20-30k price bracket come september-october...and whilst trawling autotrader this morning it dawned on me that something like a RHD 348 ts is no longer 20-25k, but more like 25-29k!
I am certain I remember looking at 348's about a year ago and thinking "22k for an early RHD tb/ts = about accurate"
so what's the story? btw I am also pretty certain that you could get a nice LHD tb/ts for 18-20k - and I am sure I even remember some chap on this forum buying an ex ferrari challenge 348 tb in yellow with full roll cage etc for 17k!!!
I notice that 996 prices are creeping steadily downwards...reckon that 25k will get me a nice one
maser 3200 prices seem steady at 17-20k for a good one...
any answers O knowledgeable people?
I am certain I remember looking at 348's about a year ago and thinking "22k for an early RHD tb/ts = about accurate"
so what's the story? btw I am also pretty certain that you could get a nice LHD tb/ts for 18-20k - and I am sure I even remember some chap on this forum buying an ex ferrari challenge 348 tb in yellow with full roll cage etc for 17k!!!
I notice that 996 prices are creeping steadily downwards...reckon that 25k will get me a nice one
maser 3200 prices seem steady at 17-20k for a good one...
any answers O knowledgeable people?
For a good early RHD you will be looking at between 26-28k
For a good late RHD you will looking at between 28-30k
For a mint example or one with low mileage you will be looking at 30k+
For LHD for good one 22-26k.....having said that I saw a mint-concours winner go for over 30k
Prices for these cars don't seem to move now because there are only a handful of good ones left.
There are cheaper ones out there but most of them are crap and need a lot of money spending on them.
Good luck with the search because believe you and me it will take a while to find a nice one for sale
For a good late RHD you will looking at between 28-30k
For a mint example or one with low mileage you will be looking at 30k+
For LHD for good one 22-26k.....having said that I saw a mint-concours winner go for over 30k
Prices for these cars don't seem to move now because there are only a handful of good ones left.
There are cheaper ones out there but most of them are crap and need a lot of money spending on them.
Good luck with the search because believe you and me it will take a while to find a nice one for sale
Edited by amo on Friday 23 February 14:08
Edited by amo on Friday 23 February 14:08
amo said:
For a good early RHD you will be looking at between 26-28k
For a good late RHD you will looking at between 28-30k
For a mint example or one with low mileage you will be looking at 30k+
For LHD for good one 22-26k.....having said that I saw a mint-concours winner go for over 30k
Prices for these cars don't seem to move now because there are only a handful of good ones left.
There are cheaper ones out there but most of them are crap and need a lot of money spending on them.
Good luck with the search because believe you and me it will take a while to find a nice one for sale
For a good late RHD you will looking at between 28-30k
For a mint example or one with low mileage you will be looking at 30k+
For LHD for good one 22-26k.....having said that I saw a mint-concours winner go for over 30k
Prices for these cars don't seem to move now because there are only a handful of good ones left.
There are cheaper ones out there but most of them are crap and need a lot of money spending on them.
Good luck with the search because believe you and me it will take a while to find a nice one for sale
TBH i'm getting more interested in the idea of a 996 or 3200 as the Lotus is going to be a weekend car...decisions!
am considering also letting go of the Lotus and getting in to a 355 (I am aware of the running costs
) as I live only 10 miles from work and have cut my mileage a lot..
alternative is to keep current setup and buy another boat
i'd better keep watching autotrader....and try not to be tempted by those 20k 996's
Edited by minimax on Friday 23 February 14:52
Some possibilities:
1) There's often a difference between sticker and sale prices.
2) Prices seemed to take a right old hammering 12-18mths ago and I think a lot of people realised they were probably undervalued, people bought them and the cars are getting to the sort of age where the people buying them, buy them to keep.
3) (2) results in few decent cars available. And you buy a dog at your peril.
1) There's often a difference between sticker and sale prices.
2) Prices seemed to take a right old hammering 12-18mths ago and I think a lot of people realised they were probably undervalued, people bought them and the cars are getting to the sort of age where the people buying them, buy them to keep.
3) (2) results in few decent cars available. And you buy a dog at your peril.
murph7355 said:
Some possibilities:
1) There's often a difference between sticker and sale prices.
2) Prices seemed to take a right old hammering 12-18mths ago and I think a lot of people realised they were probably undervalued, people bought them and the cars are getting to the sort of age where the people buying them, buy them to keep.
3) (2) results in few decent cars available. And you buy a dog at your peril.
1) There's often a difference between sticker and sale prices.
2) Prices seemed to take a right old hammering 12-18mths ago and I think a lot of people realised they were probably undervalued, people bought them and the cars are getting to the sort of age where the people buying them, buy them to keep.
3) (2) results in few decent cars available. And you buy a dog at your peril.
interesting, thank you
seems to me that prices were definitely lower during that time period...so now they're perhaps being bought by more 'enthusiast' buyers rather than as a stepping stone up the ferrari ladder
To be fair I have been looking at the market for a year or two now and the car you saw for 22k and there are one or two for that sort of price still, have usually got a bad history e.g. crash repairs, stolen recovered etc or they are just in crap condition.
There is a difference between actual price sold and sticker price. But however the dealers that knock couple grand off are usually on a average-good car. They know when they have got a mint one and they know that a enthusiast or even someone who just wants one that hasn't got any problems or work that needs doing to it, will buy them for near enough the asking price.
At the moment Nick Cartwright have got a mint example in and I went to have a look at it......you can't fault it. The car is up for £36k and he said he won't take a penny less then £35k for it.....and believe you and me I did try and he just told me politely where to go.....so for car that is right you will pay top money for it.
There is a difference between actual price sold and sticker price. But however the dealers that knock couple grand off are usually on a average-good car. They know when they have got a mint one and they know that a enthusiast or even someone who just wants one that hasn't got any problems or work that needs doing to it, will buy them for near enough the asking price.
At the moment Nick Cartwright have got a mint example in and I went to have a look at it......you can't fault it. The car is up for £36k and he said he won't take a penny less then £35k for it.....and believe you and me I did try and he just told me politely where to go.....so for car that is right you will pay top money for it.
Edited by amo on Friday 23 February 15:28
Edited by amo on Friday 23 February 15:41
amo said:
...The car is up for £36k and he said he won't take a penny less then £35k for it........
A fair enough stance if he can wait to sell it (is it on SoR?).
But the problem with waiting on these cars is that the prices of everything above them will continue to fall. So eventually you could get caught out.
My guess is that a "36k" 348 won't be 36k by autumn/winter, and frankly I'd be surprised if it sells before then at that price (or 35k). Whilst I don't believe 348s are as bad as many may claim, and prices last year would have people believe, I also do not believe they're worth that sort of money.
As soon as you start using a car like that, the edge comes off of its "value". And I'm not convinced people will buy 348s just to stick in their garage and look at (as they might with, say a 308/328).
Takes all sorts though I guess.
murph7355 said:
amo said:
...The car is up for £36k and he said he won't take a penny less then £35k for it........
A fair enough stance if he can wait to sell it (is it on SoR?).
But the problem with waiting on these cars is that the prices of everything above them will continue to fall. So eventually you could get caught out.
My guess is that a "36k" 348 won't be 36k by autumn/winter, and frankly I'd be surprised if it sells before then at that price (or 35k). Whilst I don't believe 348s are as bad as many may claim, and prices last year would have people believe, I also do not believe they're worth that sort of money.
As soon as you start using a car like that, the edge comes off of its "value". And I'm not convinced people will buy 348s just to stick in their garage and look at (as they might with, say a 308/328).
Takes all sorts though I guess.
Nick Cartwright had Jules old car(I think)....last year which was a early 348 TS with all the upgrades with 17k mileage on it....again it was £36k I phoned up Nick and had a chat about the car.....again he said if I was planning to offer him anything less then £35k I'll be wasting mine and his time....I thought the he will never get that sort of money for it...okay it was on the market for couple of months but he sold it for £35k....that car wasn't on SOR because he took it in part-ex for a 360.
At the moment there is 348 GT Competizione for £50k on autotrader... the last 348 GT Competizione that was for sale went for over £40k and it had way more mileage then the one for sale at the moment. I know someone who's got a 348 GTS in concours condition and he as had offers for it near the £40k mark....bet he is not selling
With regards for people buying these cars not to stick in their garages...again I have to dis-agree....most of the one's I saw that were not for sale but were owners club members cars......were 'Garage Queens'....if you look at concours results for over the years, you will be surprised how many 348's win the competition. But these owners hold on to their cars and don't sell them for years, and when they do, they do get very good money for them. I don't know if you know Ray Ferguson but his previous 348 was sold by Dale several months ago for £33-34k.
Having been in the market for one for over a year I know the good ones do fetch the good money.
I could have easily bought a F355 for the amount I paid for mine but I just like the raw feel of the 348. I didn't like the F355 steering feedback and also the throttle seems to have different feel to all the different ones I drove. But the F355 is probably lot more useable day to day.
Each to their own I guess.
Yes, a lot of spot on comments above.
Primarily, the 348 looks pretty unique on the roads, and plenty of potential owners like the things about it that make it unique i.e. side strakes, testarossa looks, raw feel, lack of power steering and unnecessary electrics.
There are few mint examples left now, for those who insist on an immaculate car. Owners like me who have a mint example for sale are naturally unwilling to part with them for an average price.
After all, mine is a very very mint red/crema RHD 348 Spider. How many such cars are left in that condition? Probably around 5 examples. How many available for sale? No others I am aware of. The only issue is there is also limited demand for such specialist vehicles, hence they don't change hands too often, or quickly. The bottom line is that only owners who need a quick sale will discount.
With time, I have no doubts you'll be able to buy some 360's for less than one of these rare 348 models.
Primarily, the 348 looks pretty unique on the roads, and plenty of potential owners like the things about it that make it unique i.e. side strakes, testarossa looks, raw feel, lack of power steering and unnecessary electrics.
There are few mint examples left now, for those who insist on an immaculate car. Owners like me who have a mint example for sale are naturally unwilling to part with them for an average price.
After all, mine is a very very mint red/crema RHD 348 Spider. How many such cars are left in that condition? Probably around 5 examples. How many available for sale? No others I am aware of. The only issue is there is also limited demand for such specialist vehicles, hence they don't change hands too often, or quickly. The bottom line is that only owners who need a quick sale will discount.
With time, I have no doubts you'll be able to buy some 360's for less than one of these rare 348 models.
amo said:
...Each to their own I guess.
Indeed.
I'm not saying that these cars categorically wouldn't sell. But they will take time to find the right buyer.
The GTC being advertised is by a guy who's after a CS I believe. He believes the car is worth 50k. Fair enough. If it sells at 50k it is. If it doesn't, it isn't. Simple.
Ray's car was proably better than it came out of the factory. However, how much use did it get compared to the amount of time it was being cleaned? Dale sold it on and barely used the thing (what really is the point of having a car you daren't use, after all). It was probably THE best 348 out there, can't imagine too many people disagreeing with that. But for a car to use, was it good "value"? And did it sell for 35-36k? (All rhetorical as it doesn't really matter).
There will always be 100% mint versions of cars out there that some people may be prepared to pay a premium for. But if you want to use a car...
murph7355 said:
amo said:
...Each to their own I guess.
Indeed.
I'm not saying that these cars categorically wouldn't sell. But they will take time to find the right buyer.
The GTC being advertised is by a guy who's after a CS I believe. He believes the car is worth 50k. Fair enough. If it sells at 50k it is. If it doesn't, it isn't. Simple.
Ray's car was proably better than it came out of the factory. However, how much use did it get compared to the amount of time it was being cleaned? Dale sold it on and barely used the thing (what really is the point of having a car you daren't use, after all). It was probably THE best 348 out there, can't imagine too many people disagreeing with that. But for a car to use, was it good "value"? And did it sell for 35-36k? (All rhetorical as it doesn't really matter).
There will always be 100% mint versions of cars out there that some people may be prepared to pay a premium for. But if you want to use a car...
No Dale didn't sell it for £35-36k but when he sold it, it was a private sale and not retail sale e.g it didn't come with a service, warrenty etc. It was also a early example and Ray did use the car (lot of pics of him doing track days), it also had over 30k miles on it (I know this isn't a lot for a car of this age, but for Ferrari it is probably above average).......A car similar to Ray's, but a later model with 18k miles on it went for £35k (again this was private).
Yes there are cars that are Concours and people do pay a premium for them.....but at the same time there are good used examples that are not concours but in mint condition that people are also prepared to pay a premium for......like the one at Nick Cartright, not concours but very good used example, that I am sure he will sell for what he wants for it.
Edited by amo on Sunday 25th February 16:11
Caddyshack said:
I know a guy who used to be a Sales Manager for a Ferrari dealer and he says that the 348 was the worst car Ferrari ever made and you have to take the rear wheel off to jump start the car...is this true?
It's a good thing the guy USED to be a Sales Manager as doesn't know much about 348's or he was blatently mis-informing you on purpose.
The later 348's had the battery located in the front offside wheel arch to improve weight distribution. However, you can easily jump start a 348 via the engine. Done it many times before getting an accumate battery charger.
What people tend to forget is that when the 348 was first launched, it was considered better than the NSX, although the later version NSX was considered better than the later 348 version. Jeremy Clarkson raved about it when he test drove one.
Nick Cartwright sells expensive cars. His 348's are probably the most expensive on the market, but they tend to be the best for sale. I purchased mine from him for £35K in mid 1995. It was more than many other 348's for sale at the time, but to me was the best one in the Country.
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