Discussion
My Escort Convertible (the bane of my life) pumps blue smoke out the back. Adding some 'stop smoke' helped, and seemed to improve performance slightly.
Ford have told me that it's almost certainly valve seals, but there's significant wear on allsorts of other bits and they advise me to get a new engine.
This particular garage are well known as pessamistic and love to overplay the drama. They're also said to be utterly clueless, a fact borne out by their treatment of Dad's two year old mondeo which is screaming towards its 3rd gearbox (depite the AA warning Dad that the problem would reoccur unless you replaced 'this bit here'.
Anyway, after what I've seen and heard I want to try the seals myself and hence maybe save a small fortune.
Does anyone have any advice/input?
I've worked on cars quite a lot and I'm doing an engineering degree, but I've never had the head off one before. I'd like to do the cambelt as well.
Specifically, could anyone tell me;
*)if I need any special tools
*)if there are any common mistakes I should avoid making
*)if the smoke could be caused by something else
*)the likelihood of this repair actually achieving anything
Thanks...
Ford have told me that it's almost certainly valve seals, but there's significant wear on allsorts of other bits and they advise me to get a new engine.
This particular garage are well known as pessamistic and love to overplay the drama. They're also said to be utterly clueless, a fact borne out by their treatment of Dad's two year old mondeo which is screaming towards its 3rd gearbox (depite the AA warning Dad that the problem would reoccur unless you replaced 'this bit here'.
Anyway, after what I've seen and heard I want to try the seals myself and hence maybe save a small fortune.
Does anyone have any advice/input?
I've worked on cars quite a lot and I'm doing an engineering degree, but I've never had the head off one before. I'd like to do the cambelt as well.
Specifically, could anyone tell me;
*)if I need any special tools
*)if there are any common mistakes I should avoid making
*)if the smoke could be caused by something else
*)the likelihood of this repair actually achieving anything
Thanks...
www.burtonpower.com
They know what they are doing!
If you can't do it/don't want to risk doing it yourself, send it to them and they'll do it for you!
Edited to add - I believe they are based in Kent!
>> Edited by tvradict on Tuesday 4th February 23:41
They know what they are doing!
If you can't do it/don't want to risk doing it yourself, send it to them and they'll do it for you!
Edited to add - I believe they are based in Kent!
>> Edited by tvradict on Tuesday 4th February 23:41
Thanks for the link TVR, I may be being dim here, but which of these would I need?
They're the only things I could find with 'valve spring' in the name. I just hope it isn't the £50 one!
I'm guessing they'll deliver it / have you any experience with them that might indicate how long it would take to arrive?
Cheers,
Al.
JSM13168 VALVE SPRING COMPRESSOR
CATL16750 VALVE SPRING COMPRESSOR
DRA13891 VALVE SPRING COMPRESSOR 55-95mm
They're the only things I could find with 'valve spring' in the name. I just hope it isn't the £50 one!
I'm guessing they'll deliver it / have you any experience with them that might indicate how long it would take to arrive?
Cheers,
Al.
Erm youll also need an air compressor wont you? To pressurise the cylinder keeping the valves closed?
If ya havent got access to one of these, then yall have to remove the head, not a major job, but interesting all the same.
If youre gonna go to that amount of trouble, itd be worth buying a headset, complete with all seals and gaskets, heck itd give an opportunity to do a decoke.
Just a thought!
If ya havent got access to one of these, then yall have to remove the head, not a major job, but interesting all the same.
If youre gonna go to that amount of trouble, itd be worth buying a headset, complete with all seals and gaskets, heck itd give an opportunity to do a decoke.
Just a thought!
Bit of a bodge ive done before is to remove the spark plugs and insert a length of rope through the plug hole, crank the engine over by hand till the rope feels as though its been nipped in the combustion chamber.
I made my own valve spring compressor(pretty easy really when you look at the design) and replaced the stem seals this way with no risk of dropping a valve.
I made my own valve spring compressor(pretty easy really when you look at the design) and replaced the stem seals this way with no risk of dropping a valve.
Yes, you're definitely better taking the head off so you can take a look at the state of the bores as well as give it a decoke. If you find that the bores are scored or so worn that the pistons have to move to touch the sides (OK, not literally) then replacing the valve seals won't cure your problem.
You should be able to get both the appropriate tools and a head gasket set from either your local Halfords or your local Partco (see Yellow Pages).
If you do need a full engine job don't bother with a Ford main dealer because it'll cost a fortune. Go to a small local engine reconditioners who'll do you an exchange deal for a lot less. Just try and make sure it's not a cowboy outfit though...
You should be able to get both the appropriate tools and a head gasket set from either your local Halfords or your local Partco (see Yellow Pages).
If you do need a full engine job don't bother with a Ford main dealer because it'll cost a fortune. Go to a small local engine reconditioners who'll do you an exchange deal for a lot less. Just try and make sure it's not a cowboy outfit though...
Excellent advice, though not entirely what I was hoping to hear.
The car is stored at my Parent's house, along with it's haynes manual so I don't have access to either right now.
Few more questions;
1) If I post some digicam pics over the weekend will anyone be around to help me?
2) How much should I expect to pay for the tools?
3) Does anyone with too much time on thier hands want to do me a list of tools I'm likely to need?
Thanks guys, this kind of advice usually costs a fortune (local college want £300 for a 'basic' course in motor mechanic stuff).
The car is stored at my Parent's house, along with it's haynes manual so I don't have access to either right now.
Few more questions;
1) If I post some digicam pics over the weekend will anyone be around to help me?
2) How much should I expect to pay for the tools?
3) Does anyone with too much time on thier hands want to do me a list of tools I'm likely to need?
Thanks guys, this kind of advice usually costs a fortune (local college want £300 for a 'basic' course in motor mechanic stuff).
Hi P*Ting,
Never worked on a CVH engine personally so no idea what special tools might be required, though your Haynes manual should tell you. With some engines you can use a 'universal' valve spring compressor but others can need a special one plus other special tools.
Tend to find that the staff at Partco know their stuff and they might be able to tell you or at least look it up. They'll also be able to tell you how much any special tools you do need will cost.
Don't think there'd be much point posting pics here because slightly worn valve guides or bores will look the same as good ones.
Easiest guide for worn bores is to see if you can feel a ridge around the top (a few mm down) marking where the top ring stops. If you can't feel a ridge then the bores are OK. A barely perceptible ridge you can probably live with, but a big ridge means a rebore.
Worn valve guides mean you'll be able to rock the valves a lot with the seal and spring removed and the valve open. Difficult to define 'a lot' but if there seems to be 'a lot' of clearance between the stem and the guide then the guides could be worn. Again, Haynes manual may offer more specific help.
Good luck.
Never worked on a CVH engine personally so no idea what special tools might be required, though your Haynes manual should tell you. With some engines you can use a 'universal' valve spring compressor but others can need a special one plus other special tools.
Tend to find that the staff at Partco know their stuff and they might be able to tell you or at least look it up. They'll also be able to tell you how much any special tools you do need will cost.
Don't think there'd be much point posting pics here because slightly worn valve guides or bores will look the same as good ones.
Easiest guide for worn bores is to see if you can feel a ridge around the top (a few mm down) marking where the top ring stops. If you can't feel a ridge then the bores are OK. A barely perceptible ridge you can probably live with, but a big ridge means a rebore.
Worn valve guides mean you'll be able to rock the valves a lot with the seal and spring removed and the valve open. Difficult to define 'a lot' but if there seems to be 'a lot' of clearance between the stem and the guide then the guides could be worn. Again, Haynes manual may offer more specific help.
Good luck.
You'll need a head gasket (£10) and new head bolts (£10) and the cam belt should be around £20, haynes manual around £10.
You can hire the tool for about £5 (or borrow, where do you live? you could borrow mine).
Be very careful when undoing the head bolts, I have had CVH head bolts snap were water had got at the bolts and corroded them!
Whilst your there it's worth checking the bores nothing major just run your finger and feel the lip, also look to see if any scoring is present.
The CVH really is a good engine to cut your teath on as its simple and if you F***-up you can pick one up for £100.
All the prices are guesses at what I paid a few years back.
You can hire the tool for about £5 (or borrow, where do you live? you could borrow mine).
Be very careful when undoing the head bolts, I have had CVH head bolts snap were water had got at the bolts and corroded them!
Whilst your there it's worth checking the bores nothing major just run your finger and feel the lip, also look to see if any scoring is present.
The CVH really is a good engine to cut your teath on as its simple and if you F***-up you can pick one up for £100.
All the prices are guesses at what I paid a few years back.
Andy,
Funny you posted this now, I've just been out pricing the bits (at Halfords).
*The valve spring compressor is £14
*The head gasket set is £30
*The Cam belt is either £10 or £16, depending on how many teeth it has.
The head bolts are £13
Halfords don't supply valve seals or guides, so I'm open to guesses on those.
I have a friend who is a mechanic and I'm hoping he won't mind if I borrow his valve spring compressor for a weekend (or maybe two).
Step by step as I see it I'll have to;
*mark out the position of the camshaft
*take out the head bolts
*remove the head
*inspect the bores for any sign of a lip
*remove the (cam/head/rocker?) cover
*remove the cam
*remove the valve springs
*remove the valve seals
*check for play in the valves when open
Then;
*fit new guides if needed
*fit new seals
*put the valve springs back
*put the cam back in, returning the valves to their original positions (Don't know how I'm going to manage this - suggestions please!!!)
*lubricate the cam/follower surfaces (what product should I use?)
*position the new gaskets & seals
*put the head back on and line it up with my marks
*put the cam belt back on
*tighten the stretch bolts to the required torque
*pray it doesn't blow up!
Have I missed anything? I didn't include cleaning steps as those seem quite obvious to me. Obviously the haynes manual will have a decent guide, but I want to understand what I'm doing, not just parrot it.
Al
Funny you posted this now, I've just been out pricing the bits (at Halfords).
*The valve spring compressor is £14
*The head gasket set is £30
*The Cam belt is either £10 or £16, depending on how many teeth it has.
The head bolts are £13
Halfords don't supply valve seals or guides, so I'm open to guesses on those.
I have a friend who is a mechanic and I'm hoping he won't mind if I borrow his valve spring compressor for a weekend (or maybe two).
Step by step as I see it I'll have to;
*mark out the position of the camshaft
*take out the head bolts
*remove the head
*inspect the bores for any sign of a lip
*remove the (cam/head/rocker?) cover
*remove the cam
*remove the valve springs
*remove the valve seals
*check for play in the valves when open
Then;
*fit new guides if needed
*fit new seals
*put the valve springs back
*put the cam back in, returning the valves to their original positions (Don't know how I'm going to manage this - suggestions please!!!)
*lubricate the cam/follower surfaces (what product should I use?)
*position the new gaskets & seals
*put the head back on and line it up with my marks
*put the cam belt back on
*tighten the stretch bolts to the required torque
*pray it doesn't blow up!
Have I missed anything? I didn't include cleaning steps as those seem quite obvious to me. Obviously the haynes manual will have a decent guide, but I want to understand what I'm doing, not just parrot it.
Al
Hi again,
You seem to have the gist of it. Just a couple of points.
1) You should get new valve stem seals in the head gasket set.
2) Before you start taking bits off, set the engine to Top Dead Centre (TDC) on number 1 cylinder as the engine will already have marks for that. Take the plugs out so there's no compression and turn the engine with a spanner on the crank pulley bolt until the timing marks line up (see Haynes manual).
Just make sure you set it for TDC on the COMPRESSION stroke (i.e. the rotor arm will be pointing at the No 1 plug lead in the dizzy cap and both valves on No 1 pot closed). That way you should be able to see corresponding marks on the head for lining up the cam.
You seem to have the gist of it. Just a couple of points.
1) You should get new valve stem seals in the head gasket set.
2) Before you start taking bits off, set the engine to Top Dead Centre (TDC) on number 1 cylinder as the engine will already have marks for that. Take the plugs out so there's no compression and turn the engine with a spanner on the crank pulley bolt until the timing marks line up (see Haynes manual).
Just make sure you set it for TDC on the COMPRESSION stroke (i.e. the rotor arm will be pointing at the No 1 plug lead in the dizzy cap and both valves on No 1 pot closed). That way you should be able to see corresponding marks on the head for lining up the cam.
Ahhhh, now it starts to become clear.
I was reading the tech talk on burtonpower.com and they were talking about top-dead-centre and marks on the engine, this went in one ear out the other (so to speak), but then it was 5:30am.
The only thing still bugging me is reasembly. As you mention Graham the valves on no1 should be closed, fair enough, but they won't all be, which implies I'll be trying to fight the valve springs when I'm trying to close the cam cover again. Won't they make it spin or something? Or do I put the valve springs back on when the cam is already tied down?
Another point I forgot to mention earlier; is a cambelt as easy to change as an alternator belt? Whack it on, see if you can push it a bit (1/4 inch deflection along the longest travel isn't it) and that's job done?
Cheers,
Al.
I was reading the tech talk on burtonpower.com and they were talking about top-dead-centre and marks on the engine, this went in one ear out the other (so to speak), but then it was 5:30am.
The only thing still bugging me is reasembly. As you mention Graham the valves on no1 should be closed, fair enough, but they won't all be, which implies I'll be trying to fight the valve springs when I'm trying to close the cam cover again. Won't they make it spin or something? Or do I put the valve springs back on when the cam is already tied down?
Another point I forgot to mention earlier; is a cambelt as easy to change as an alternator belt? Whack it on, see if you can push it a bit (1/4 inch deflection along the longest travel isn't it) and that's job done?
Cheers,
Al.
Buy a Hynes manual ..... please! If you was local id give ya a hand with it matey, but lincs is a wee bit outa my way.
Get the manual, have a bloody good read of it so as youre totally familiar with the ins and outs of da lump, then if ya do get stuck, give us a shout on here.
Oh one very important thing: Do not under any circumstances attempt to start the engine until you have turned it over by hand at least twice(after reassembly) this is to check that the valves arent contacting your luverley pistons.
Get the manual, have a bloody good read of it so as youre totally familiar with the ins and outs of da lump, then if ya do get stuck, give us a shout on here.
Oh one very important thing: Do not under any circumstances attempt to start the engine until you have turned it over by hand at least twice(after reassembly) this is to check that the valves arent contacting your luverley pistons.
Cheers guys, as I mention, I've got the Haynes Manual already, but I don't have it with me.
Anyway, I believe its always a good idea to research things like this as deeply as you can, hence my asking you gents. I'm sure a few things have come up here that aren't mentioned in Haynes.
Thanks for the offer Deltaf, I appreciate the advice you've given!
Thanks again all, I'll yell in an emergency...
>> Edited by P*Ting on Wednesday 5th February 21:24
Anyway, I believe its always a good idea to research things like this as deeply as you can, hence my asking you gents. I'm sure a few things have come up here that aren't mentioned in Haynes.
Thanks for the offer Deltaf, I appreciate the advice you've given!
Thanks again all, I'll yell in an emergency...
>> Edited by P*Ting on Wednesday 5th February 21:24
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