Oil advice and recommendations here!
Discussion
I've been following this thread for a long time, but finally giving up resisting adding to the list.
Volkswagen Golf GTI 16V 1990
1.8 inline 4 DOHC
No modifications except a ridiculous exhaust fitted by previous owner which will be getting dumped when I get round to it. I may look at a mild cam and/or a 1.9 overbore in the future.
Currently using Quantum Synta 10W40 semi synth from VW or GSF, changing every 5k or so. Going to be flushing through with flushing oil tonight before refilling with the same.
At the moment, it's just a daily driver and won't be getting any head work for a while so I thought the 10W40 might be about right as it's not the tightest of engines (145k). Then maybe switching to a thinner fully synth when I get round to rebuilding the head.
Any recommendations will be warmly welcomed.
Volkswagen Golf GTI 16V 1990
1.8 inline 4 DOHC
No modifications except a ridiculous exhaust fitted by previous owner which will be getting dumped when I get round to it. I may look at a mild cam and/or a 1.9 overbore in the future.
Currently using Quantum Synta 10W40 semi synth from VW or GSF, changing every 5k or so. Going to be flushing through with flushing oil tonight before refilling with the same.
At the moment, it's just a daily driver and won't be getting any head work for a while so I thought the 10W40 might be about right as it's not the tightest of engines (145k). Then maybe switching to a thinner fully synth when I get round to rebuilding the head.
Any recommendations will be warmly welcomed.
randos said:
Hi I have a Alfa Romeo 145 Cloverleaf 2.0 16v twinspark
The car is a 97 P reg and has 86,000 on the clock, with no mods. I was wondering what the best oil for the car is as i have not had the car long.
The stock recomendation for our beutiful uk climate is a 10w-40, this can be a semi for a full synthetic.
A daily driver and not pushed a good quality semi 10w-40 with frequent oil changes would be fine.
If you wanted the best then a fully synthetic 10w-40 or 10w-50 of PAO/Ester base stock (true synthetic) if you drive an enthusiastic manner.
Hope this helps.
Cheers
Guy.
LexSport said:
I've been following this thread for a long time, but finally giving up resisting adding to the list.
Volkswagen Golf GTI 16V 1990
1.8 inline 4 DOHC
No modifications except a ridiculous exhaust fitted by previous owner which will be getting dumped when I get round to it. I may look at a mild cam and/or a 1.9 overbore in the future.
Currently using Quantum Synta 10W40 semi synth from VW or GSF, changing every 5k or so. Going to be flushing through with flushing oil tonight before refilling with the same.
At the moment, it's just a daily driver and won't be getting any head work for a while so I thought the 10W40 might be about right as it's not the tightest of engines (145k). Then maybe switching to a thinner fully synth when I get round to rebuilding the head.
Any recommendations will be warmly welcomed.
Not much I can add, youve got the idea.
The Quantum is a budget oil made for VAG to use in service centers etc, but if the car is just normall use till a rebuild then there is no point putting in the good stuff. You are using the right grade at the moment however after an engine rebuild a good 5w-40 would be is this as I would go, look for a true synthetic PAO or Ester/PAO base stock, the likes of Motul, Redline, Silkolene and Mobil all do these.
Make sure you run in on a mineral oil after a rebuild.
FLUSHES!!!
dont bother, with a regular oil changes the oil has all the deteregents needed to keep the engine clean, for a better flush use a better oil. Flushes can do more harm than good. Hope this helps a bit.
Cheers
Guy.
Very interesting thread this. How about this for something a little different:
Make: Land Rover
Model: Defender 300 Tdi
Year: 1997
Engine size and type: 2495cc 8v turbo direct injection diesel
Any significant modifications: none but considering Van Aaken Performance Optimisation - preferably for greater mpg
Brand and viscosity currently used: Shell Helix Diesel Plus 10W-40 (used by dealer then by me since)
Also considering changing to Ovoline "Goldex Super Plus 10w40 High Synthetic" - any opinion?
Land Rover specify a change interval of 6 months or 6000 miles whichever sooner - is 6 months too regular? I rarely do more than 6000 miles a year with a mix of long and short journeys.
Just read your comment about flushing, don't use flushing oil but have added stuff like Forte Motor Flush - no good?
What about Forte Diesel fuel conditioner?
Thanks in advance for any information - I seem to be asking quite a lot but hopefully it will help others aswell.
Rupert Cook.
Make: Land Rover
Model: Defender 300 Tdi
Year: 1997
Engine size and type: 2495cc 8v turbo direct injection diesel
Any significant modifications: none but considering Van Aaken Performance Optimisation - preferably for greater mpg
Brand and viscosity currently used: Shell Helix Diesel Plus 10W-40 (used by dealer then by me since)
Also considering changing to Ovoline "Goldex Super Plus 10w40 High Synthetic" - any opinion?
Land Rover specify a change interval of 6 months or 6000 miles whichever sooner - is 6 months too regular? I rarely do more than 6000 miles a year with a mix of long and short journeys.
Just read your comment about flushing, don't use flushing oil but have added stuff like Forte Motor Flush - no good?
What about Forte Diesel fuel conditioner?
Thanks in advance for any information - I seem to be asking quite a lot but hopefully it will help others aswell.
Rupert Cook.
Rupert,
I am a big fan of the defender.
The recomended grade is for a 10w-40. This can be semi or full synthetic. Many oils out there these days are designed for both petrol and diesel, this is represented by the ACEA A3/B3 on a tin, the A is for petrol and the B for diesel.
Do you mean valvoline? as I have not heard of ovaline.
If it is valvoline, it is ok but much better is available, more of a budget oil and I doubt it would be a true synthetic but a hydrocracked mineral oil (I could be proved wrong). If you want better mpg, then consider a fully synthetic 5w-40, this will give better cold start protection, but are also very fluid helping with the mpg.
I have always recomended not using addatives, but fuel enhancers can be usefull.
Hope this helps.
Cheers
Guy.
I am a big fan of the defender.
The recomended grade is for a 10w-40. This can be semi or full synthetic. Many oils out there these days are designed for both petrol and diesel, this is represented by the ACEA A3/B3 on a tin, the A is for petrol and the B for diesel.
Do you mean valvoline? as I have not heard of ovaline.
If it is valvoline, it is ok but much better is available, more of a budget oil and I doubt it would be a true synthetic but a hydrocracked mineral oil (I could be proved wrong). If you want better mpg, then consider a fully synthetic 5w-40, this will give better cold start protection, but are also very fluid helping with the mpg.
I have always recomended not using addatives, but fuel enhancers can be usefull.
Hope this helps.
Cheers
Guy.
Guy, thanks for the info. It's good to know I'm on the right lines.
Like Rupert I'm also interested in why you recommend against flushing. I've no idea how often the oil was changed before I got the car 6 months ago and every oil change I've done, even at 5k miles, the outgoing oil has been very black. I thought, perhaps naively, that a good flush out might help things a little.
Like Rupert I'm also interested in why you recommend against flushing. I've no idea how often the oil was changed before I got the car 6 months ago and every oil change I've done, even at 5k miles, the outgoing oil has been very black. I thought, perhaps naively, that a good flush out might help things a little.
LexSport said:
Guy, thanks for the info. It's good to know I'm on the right lines.
Like Rupert I'm also interested in why you recommend against flushing. I've no idea how often the oil was changed before I got the car 6 months ago and every oil change I've done, even at 5k miles, the outgoing oil has been very black. I thought, perhaps naively, that a good flush out might help things a little.
I am not a fan of flushes due to how harsh they are. Some flushes even contain kerosene
They can do more harm than good by stripping the engine too much of deposits etc. Some people use a flush so it dislodges all the deposits that help keep the engine tigh as it gets older, so the result is it sound rattly and can leak.
Good quality oil use good detergents, and should keep your engine clean enough.
If you fell a flush is needed then use a good oil to do it with.
Cheers
Guy.
Guy,
Ovoline Lubricants is a company based on the banks of the Tyne in Gateshead - apparently for 125 years!
I have just put their ATF Dexron III in my main gearbox. Their synthetic EP90 and synthetic ATF get good write-ups - things like smoother, quieter, more mpg, etc. Also said to be long lasting 48,000 mile change interval (haven't used it yet)
They also do "Synol 5W40 Fully Synthetic Engine Oil" which mentions cold start protection and "formulated from state of the art synthetic base stocks" and - it's the same price as the Shell which I suppose makes it "cheap".
What change interval would you recommend for fully synthetic?
Any comments gratefully received into my currently overloaded brain (done a lot of reading about oil recently and it is quite complicated isn't it?)
(don't know if I should mention the website names)
Thanks again,
Rupert Cook.
Ovoline Lubricants is a company based on the banks of the Tyne in Gateshead - apparently for 125 years!
I have just put their ATF Dexron III in my main gearbox. Their synthetic EP90 and synthetic ATF get good write-ups - things like smoother, quieter, more mpg, etc. Also said to be long lasting 48,000 mile change interval (haven't used it yet)
They also do "Synol 5W40 Fully Synthetic Engine Oil" which mentions cold start protection and "formulated from state of the art synthetic base stocks" and - it's the same price as the Shell which I suppose makes it "cheap".
What change interval would you recommend for fully synthetic?
Any comments gratefully received into my currently overloaded brain (done a lot of reading about oil recently and it is quite complicated isn't it?)
(don't know if I should mention the website names)
Thanks again,
Rupert Cook.
rgc-lr said:
Guy,
Ovoline Lubricants is a company based on the banks of the Tyne in Gateshead - apparently for 125 years!
I have just put their ATF Dexron III in my main gearbox. Their synthetic EP90 and synthetic ATF get good write-ups - things like smoother, quieter, more mpg, etc. Also said to be long lasting 48,000 mile change interval (haven't used it yet)
They also do "Synol 5W40 Fully Synthetic Engine Oil" which mentions cold start protection and "formulated from state of the art synthetic base stocks" and - it's the same price as the Shell which I suppose makes it "cheap".
What change interval would you recommend for fully synthetic?
Any comments gratefully received into my currently overloaded brain (done a lot of reading about oil recently and it is quite complicated isn't it?)
(don't know if I should mention the website names)
Thanks again,
Rupert Cook.
Rupert,
I will do a search on Ovaline.
If I can find some technical data on their oils I will be able to make a comparason.
The oil change interval on a synthetic vary. This is because a lot of synthetics are not a synthetic inthe true sense of the work as they are hydrocracked mineral oil and not a PAO or Ester/PAO base stock oil.
The hydrocracked oils have are little more than a semi synthetic and oil changes are around 6000 miles depending on quality. With a true synthetic your are looking at 9000 miles plus.
Cheers
Guy.
Guy
First time I'v noticed Solid graphite lubricant, in a conventional oil, is this the future of additives???
----
Elf Molygraphite 10W30 Engine Oil (3 litres)
270638
Exclusive lubrication technology from Elf... incorporating solid lubricants of graphite and molybdenum disulphite. Available in 3 litre pack.
Key Features
Viscosity rating of 10W30.
Provide excellent thermal and oxidation stability.
Reinforced with dispersing and detergent properties.
Superior anti-wear properties.
High shear stability ... providing optimum lubrication at low and high temperature.
Suitable for all gasoline/petrol engine from 600 cc.
Benefits
Noticeable decrease in wear and tear due to cold start, especially in the morning.
Better lubrication at all times increases engine efficiency, better fuel consumption.
Maintain engine in silent operating condition.
Added protection from graphite and molybdenum provide better protection and increase reliability of moving parts.
Keeps engine in clean under all operating conditions.
API: SJ
First time I'v noticed Solid graphite lubricant, in a conventional oil, is this the future of additives???
----
Elf Molygraphite 10W30 Engine Oil (3 litres)
270638
Exclusive lubrication technology from Elf... incorporating solid lubricants of graphite and molybdenum disulphite. Available in 3 litre pack.
Key Features
Viscosity rating of 10W30.
Provide excellent thermal and oxidation stability.
Reinforced with dispersing and detergent properties.
Superior anti-wear properties.
High shear stability ... providing optimum lubrication at low and high temperature.
Suitable for all gasoline/petrol engine from 600 cc.
Benefits
Noticeable decrease in wear and tear due to cold start, especially in the morning.
Better lubrication at all times increases engine efficiency, better fuel consumption.
Maintain engine in silent operating condition.
Added protection from graphite and molybdenum provide better protection and increase reliability of moving parts.
Keeps engine in clean under all operating conditions.
API: SJ
I have a 1985 FIAT Uno Turbo ie. It is 1300cc (or 1299?).
No mods aside from a cone filter and daft exhaust (neither of them my fault). It has doen 120,000 miles though.
It is currently using a semi-synth 10W40. My garage (indy FIAT specialist) took one look at the 5W40 synth I bought last time and told me it would run (and burn) straight out of the engine! I figured with a turbo the oil could use all the help it could get. With semi-synth I change it every 3-4000 miles.
I'm looking at maybe getting myself a 1980 1300cc Lancia Beta. With engines this old is it worth running synths, or am I better off with a quality semi synth?
Thank you very much - this is a great thread. Your website is pretty damn useful too
>> Edited by Duncan23 on Tuesday 23 November 15:22
No mods aside from a cone filter and daft exhaust (neither of them my fault). It has doen 120,000 miles though.
It is currently using a semi-synth 10W40. My garage (indy FIAT specialist) took one look at the 5W40 synth I bought last time and told me it would run (and burn) straight out of the engine! I figured with a turbo the oil could use all the help it could get. With semi-synth I change it every 3-4000 miles.
I'm looking at maybe getting myself a 1980 1300cc Lancia Beta. With engines this old is it worth running synths, or am I better off with a quality semi synth?
Thank you very much - this is a great thread. Your website is pretty damn useful too
>> Edited by Duncan23 on Tuesday 23 November 15:22
Duncan23 said:
I have a 1985 FIAT Uno Turbo ie. It is 1300cc (or 1299?).
No mods aside from a cone filter and daft exhaust (neither of them my fault). It has doen 120,000 miles though.
It is currently using a semi-synth 10W40. My garage (indy FIAT specialist) took one look at the 5W40 synth I bought last time and told me it would run (and burn) straight out of the engine! I figured with a turbo the oil could use all the help it could get. With semi-synth I change it every 3-4000 miles.
I'm looking at maybe getting myself a 1980 1300cc Lancia Beta. With engines this old is it worth running synths, or am I better off with a quality semi synth?
Thank you very much - this is a great thread. Your website is pretty damn useful too
>> Edited by Duncan23 on Tuesday 23 November 15:22
The recomended oil for the Uno Turbo a 10w-40 or 15w-40, you can use anything from a mineral to a true synthetic.
I would not go as thin as a 5w-40 as it will be a little thin when cold.
A good 10w-40 would be the best bet, I personally would use a good semi or a full syntheitc over a mineral, if the car is driven hard than a shear stable fully syntheitc could be an idea.
Some thing like the Motul 300v 10w-40 chrono would be the top option.
With older cars you can use a fully synthetic and there will be gainse, though with an older engine you will need a thick one, 10w-40 to 15w-50.
I hope this helps.
Cheers
Guy.
Ps. If you want to sell the Uno let me know.
Thought this may be of interest.
The Myths regarding Synthetic Oils
The benefits of Synthetic motor oils have been much debated over the last 10 years and misinformation is rife, particularly on the internet.
There are many so-called experts out there who should know better but hopefully this post will shed some light on some of the most common myths.
What are Synthetic Oils?
Synthetic Oils are fuel efficient, more fluid and resistant to thermal breakdown, they are constructed in laboratories using basestocks and special additive packages. They are specially formulated to meet and perform to standards set by API and ACEA as required by OEM’s.
Synthetic motor oils damage seals.
This is untrue. Why would lubricant manufacturers build products that are
incompatible with seals. The composition of seals present problems that all types of oils must overcome.
At the end of the day, it is the additive pack in the oil that counts. Additives are added control the swelling, shrinking and hardening of seals.
Synthetics are too thin.
This is untrue. In order for an oil to be classified in any SAE grade (0W-40, 5w-40,10W-40 etc) it has to meet guidelines with regard to viscosity or thickness.
For example, any oil with a viscosity of 10W-40 has to operate at -25 degrees centigrade and 100 degrees centigrade to pass these tests or it cannot be rated as a 10W-40.
Synthetics mean higher oil usage.
This is untrue. Synthetic motor oils are intended for use in mechanically sound engines, that don't leak oil. In these engines oil consumption will actually be lower because of the lower volatility of Synthetics. They also have better sealing capabilities between piston rings and cylinder walls. Synthetics also have better oxidation stability. (They resist reacting with oxygen at high temperatures)
Synthetic Oils are not compatible with other oils.
This is untrue. The synthesized hydrocarbons, polyalphaolefins, diesters and other materials from high quality basestocks are fully compatible with other oils.
It is best to stick to the same oil for topping up that you have in the engine. It is best not to mix oils, as additives are blended for specific oils. When different oils are mixed additive pack balances can be upset so for the best performance, it’s better not to mix them.
Synthetic Oils produce sludge.
This is untrue. It is a fact that they are more sludge resistant than other oils as they are better at resisting high temperatures and oxidation. Because Synthetic oils have higher flash points, they withstand evaporation better leaving less deposits.
Synthetic oils can't be used with catalytic converters.
This is untrue. There is no difference between synthetic and other oils with regards to the components. Neither will damage catalytic converters.
Synthetic oils can void warranties.
This is untrue. No major manufacturers specifically ban the use of synthetic
oils. More and more new performance cars are factory filled with Synthetic oils.
Vehicle warranties are based upon the use of oils meeting specific API Service
Classifications and recommended viscosities.
Synthetic oils will last forever.
This is untrue. There are some people that believe that synthetic basestocks themselves can be used forever. However, it is a well known fact that eventually the additives will break down and cause the oil to degrade. The additives in the oil are effectively “used up” by moisture, fuel dilution and acids. Regularly topping up the oil will help but sensible oil change periods are recommended.
Synthetic oils will protect an engine for far longer periods than non-synthetics.
Synthetic oils are too expensive.
This is untrue. It has been proven through testing that Synthetic oils do have longer drain periods and provide better fuel economy. Add this to reduced engine wear and better reliability then do the maths. They are in reality better value for money than other oils.
Cheers
Guy
The Myths regarding Synthetic Oils
The benefits of Synthetic motor oils have been much debated over the last 10 years and misinformation is rife, particularly on the internet.
There are many so-called experts out there who should know better but hopefully this post will shed some light on some of the most common myths.
What are Synthetic Oils?
Synthetic Oils are fuel efficient, more fluid and resistant to thermal breakdown, they are constructed in laboratories using basestocks and special additive packages. They are specially formulated to meet and perform to standards set by API and ACEA as required by OEM’s.
Synthetic motor oils damage seals.
This is untrue. Why would lubricant manufacturers build products that are
incompatible with seals. The composition of seals present problems that all types of oils must overcome.
At the end of the day, it is the additive pack in the oil that counts. Additives are added control the swelling, shrinking and hardening of seals.
Synthetics are too thin.
This is untrue. In order for an oil to be classified in any SAE grade (0W-40, 5w-40,10W-40 etc) it has to meet guidelines with regard to viscosity or thickness.
For example, any oil with a viscosity of 10W-40 has to operate at -25 degrees centigrade and 100 degrees centigrade to pass these tests or it cannot be rated as a 10W-40.
Synthetics mean higher oil usage.
This is untrue. Synthetic motor oils are intended for use in mechanically sound engines, that don't leak oil. In these engines oil consumption will actually be lower because of the lower volatility of Synthetics. They also have better sealing capabilities between piston rings and cylinder walls. Synthetics also have better oxidation stability. (They resist reacting with oxygen at high temperatures)
Synthetic Oils are not compatible with other oils.
This is untrue. The synthesized hydrocarbons, polyalphaolefins, diesters and other materials from high quality basestocks are fully compatible with other oils.
It is best to stick to the same oil for topping up that you have in the engine. It is best not to mix oils, as additives are blended for specific oils. When different oils are mixed additive pack balances can be upset so for the best performance, it’s better not to mix them.
Synthetic Oils produce sludge.
This is untrue. It is a fact that they are more sludge resistant than other oils as they are better at resisting high temperatures and oxidation. Because Synthetic oils have higher flash points, they withstand evaporation better leaving less deposits.
Synthetic oils can't be used with catalytic converters.
This is untrue. There is no difference between synthetic and other oils with regards to the components. Neither will damage catalytic converters.
Synthetic oils can void warranties.
This is untrue. No major manufacturers specifically ban the use of synthetic
oils. More and more new performance cars are factory filled with Synthetic oils.
Vehicle warranties are based upon the use of oils meeting specific API Service
Classifications and recommended viscosities.
Synthetic oils will last forever.
This is untrue. There are some people that believe that synthetic basestocks themselves can be used forever. However, it is a well known fact that eventually the additives will break down and cause the oil to degrade. The additives in the oil are effectively “used up” by moisture, fuel dilution and acids. Regularly topping up the oil will help but sensible oil change periods are recommended.
Synthetic oils will protect an engine for far longer periods than non-synthetics.
Synthetic oils are too expensive.
This is untrue. It has been proven through testing that Synthetic oils do have longer drain periods and provide better fuel economy. Add this to reduced engine wear and better reliability then do the maths. They are in reality better value for money than other oils.
Cheers
Guy
opieoilman said:
Saving pennies when it comes to oil achieves nothing, the valvoline is average cheap and chearfull oil, put it in a daily hack with regular oil changes, fine. Put it in a performance car, well I would not.
Cheers
Guy.
www.valvoline.com said:
Is SynPower a full synthetic? Is SynPower motor oil PAO or ester based? Does it require a special filter?
Yes, SynPower is 100% synthetic. Synpower uses a proprietary combination of various types of synthetic base oils
That doesn't sound like an average cheap and chearfull oil. It sounds like a blend of PAO and ester built in a lab. Are you saying it's not?
>> Edited by Munter on Monday 13th December 12:19
Valvoline Tech won't give out base oil types. MSDS's for Synpower showed GP III for all but GP IV (PAO) for the 20w50. But the MSDS does not account for the full content.
Unless esters are specified I would assume best case they are used as additive carrier, which is unlikely to give the benefit of a proper ester based oil. It is probably similar in content to Shell or Castrol, however European oils are likely to be superior.
Guy and Simon are providing IMO very sound advice.
Unless esters are specified I would assume best case they are used as additive carrier, which is unlikely to give the benefit of a proper ester based oil. It is probably similar in content to Shell or Castrol, however European oils are likely to be superior.
Guy and Simon are providing IMO very sound advice.
The syn power may well be a full synthetic, it certainly does not contain ester so at best is a pao synthetic or a pao blend, but then addatives, vi improver and detergents make up the rest, and it is these ingredients I fear are cheap and chearfull.
I stand by what I said earlier, in a daily runaround no problem, but I would still not put it in my pride and joy.
You do get what you pay for.
Cheers
Guy.
I stand by what I said earlier, in a daily runaround no problem, but I would still not put it in my pride and joy.
You do get what you pay for.
Cheers
Guy.
Basestock classifications are as follows:
API base oil classifications are used for base oil interchange and blending guidelines.
They are based on sulphur content and saturate level. Saturate level refers to the carbon - carbon & carbon - hydrogen bonding mechanism within the molecule; high saturates considered to give a more stable product and to be generally beneficial for our purposes.
Conventional solvent refined paraffinic stocks as used in vast majority of formulations are Group 1. Group 2 not normally available in the UK. Group 3 are the high VI hydrocracked stocks.
All PAOs fall into Group 4. Group 5 is anything else for example esters.
Cheers
Guy
API base oil classifications are used for base oil interchange and blending guidelines.
They are based on sulphur content and saturate level. Saturate level refers to the carbon - carbon & carbon - hydrogen bonding mechanism within the molecule; high saturates considered to give a more stable product and to be generally beneficial for our purposes.
Conventional solvent refined paraffinic stocks as used in vast majority of formulations are Group 1. Group 2 not normally available in the UK. Group 3 are the high VI hydrocracked stocks.
All PAOs fall into Group 4. Group 5 is anything else for example esters.
Cheers
Guy
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