Getrag 6 speed
Discussion
Okay have just got this off the car and am now looking at it. I have a Getrag off a 1991 BMW 850i V12 BMW. It’s a six speed manual with the following written on it
225 Getrag
286 0,0308.90
1 221 304.9
1.1
Firstly, not sure how to identify it from that writing. Also, I had the following problem. When in neutral and with foot off the clutch you could here a rotating slow grinding noise, that slowly became apparent as the car warmed up. The minute you pushed down on the clutch the noise disappeared and you can’t hear the noise when in gear and driving. Stop, go into neutral and take your foot off the clutch and it returns.
Anyone know how it comes apart before I 'wing it', Anyone know how you get hold of dissassembly information cos the getrag site seems to be a complete waste of space. Or, at this point, I would be willing to consider anyone who knows a getrag gearbox specialist in the NW kent area?
Julian
225 Getrag
286 0,0308.90
1 221 304.9
1.1
Firstly, not sure how to identify it from that writing. Also, I had the following problem. When in neutral and with foot off the clutch you could here a rotating slow grinding noise, that slowly became apparent as the car warmed up. The minute you pushed down on the clutch the noise disappeared and you can’t hear the noise when in gear and driving. Stop, go into neutral and take your foot off the clutch and it returns.
Anyone know how it comes apart before I 'wing it', Anyone know how you get hold of dissassembly information cos the getrag site seems to be a complete waste of space. Or, at this point, I would be willing to consider anyone who knows a getrag gearbox specialist in the NW kent area?
Julian
Julian64 said:
Okay have just got this off the car and am now looking at it. I have a Getrag off a 1991 BMW 850i V12 BMW. It’s a six speed manual with the following written on it
225 Getrag
286 0,0308.90
1 221 304.9
1.1
Firstly, not sure how to identify it from that writing. Also, I had the following problem. When in neutral and with foot off the clutch you could here a rotating slow grinding noise, that slowly became apparent as the car warmed up. The minute you pushed down on the clutch the noise disappeared and you can’t hear the noise when in gear and driving. Stop, go into neutral and take your foot off the clutch and it returns.
Anyone know how it comes apart before I 'wing it', Anyone know how you get hold of dissassembly information cos the getrag site seems to be a complete waste of space. Or, at this point, I would be willing to consider anyone who knows a getrag gearbox specialist in the NW kent area?
Julian
STOP!!!
You are going to undertake needless work because the symptoms you describe are entirely in line with the failure of a friction damper in the clutch. If the car has a dual mass flywheel, the friction damper in the DMF has probably gone bad. Solution is a new DMF.
As regards the rebuild of your specific transmission it is not good news. Getrag have a policy of not supporting the aftermarket with anything other than new product and minor parts - seals, switches et cetera.
A good transmission rebuilder may well be able to fit new bearings and clean the mainshaft to gear bearings, and potentially salvage the synchro rings. But they need to exercise caution - because there are no spares. Break something and you are going to have to pay a company like Quaife to make it - and it will not be cheap.
Alpineandy said:
these guys may be able to help.
www.en.getrag.de/238
Not much help I' afraid. That link is to getrags site but their best advice is to take it to a gearbox specialist. Considering their gerboxes are ubiquitous, I find it difficult to believe the info isn't in the public domain.
GavinPearson said:
Okay have just got this off the car and am now looking at it. I have a Getrag off a 1991 BMW 850i V12 BMW. It’s a six speed manual with the following written on it
225 Getrag
286 0,0308.90
1 221 304.9
1.1
Firstly, not sure how to identify it from that writing. Also, I had the following problem. When in neutral and with foot off the clutch you could here a rotating slow grinding noise, that slowly became apparent as the car warmed up. The minute you pushed down on the clutch the noise disappeared and you can’t hear the noise when in gear and driving. Stop, go into neutral and take your foot off the clutch and it returns.
Anyone know how it comes apart before I 'wing it', Anyone know how you get hold of dissassembly information cos the getrag site seems to be a complete waste of space. Or, at this point, I would be willing to consider anyone who knows a getrag gearbox specialist in the NW kent area?
Julian
STOP!!!
You are going to undertake needless work because the symptoms you describe are entirely in line with the failure of a friction damper in the clutch. If the car has a dual mass flywheel, the friction damper in the DMF has probably gone bad. Solution is a new DMF.
As regards the rebuild of your specific transmission it is not good news. Getrag have a policy of not supporting the aftermarket with anything other than new product and minor parts - seals, switches et cetera.
A good transmission rebuilder may well be able to fit new bearings and clean the mainshaft to gear bearings, and potentially salvage the synchro rings. But they need to exercise caution - because there are no spares. Break something and you are going to have to pay a company like Quaife to make it - and it will not be cheap.
Thanks for the info but if it was a friction damper in the clutch wouldn't it make the noise all the time, or don't I understand what a friction dampers doing?
As for Getrag, I didn't think it was actually legal to make something that had no chance of repair. I think it falls under the unfair competition laws. Even BMW will give to repair instructions up to their obligation under the law.
The damping system is tuned for a speed range, if the damper goes bad it doesn't work and you get chatter.
As a Transmission Engineer my experience has been that this is more often than not the case.
As for Getrag's service policy I work with them at an OE level and know our compliance with world regulations. Getrag are not obliged to do anything - but the vehicle manufacturer is. As such they have a 10 year obligation under EEC law and US law to provide a service solution for any components that break.
In real terms this means making an all time buy of components or assemblies in whichever form will serve the customer best, in many case for trim they will make it if asked for it, but don't carry much stock, and for other items the aftermarket supports everything well enough.
The law only says you have to make the parts available, it doesn't state the price and you could be charged GBP 2000 for the part alone. It's then an economic decision as to whether to repair or scrap the vehicle.
Sorry to sound so gloomy but this is what I get paid to do for a living - it isn't necessarily fair but it's the economics of doing business.
As a Transmission Engineer my experience has been that this is more often than not the case.
As for Getrag's service policy I work with them at an OE level and know our compliance with world regulations. Getrag are not obliged to do anything - but the vehicle manufacturer is. As such they have a 10 year obligation under EEC law and US law to provide a service solution for any components that break.
In real terms this means making an all time buy of components or assemblies in whichever form will serve the customer best, in many case for trim they will make it if asked for it, but don't carry much stock, and for other items the aftermarket supports everything well enough.
The law only says you have to make the parts available, it doesn't state the price and you could be charged GBP 2000 for the part alone. It's then an economic decision as to whether to repair or scrap the vehicle.
Sorry to sound so gloomy but this is what I get paid to do for a living - it isn't necessarily fair but it's the economics of doing business.
Well just to provide closure to this thread, and say thanks to those who helped, I will say I ended up with serious egg on my face.
I eventually took the gearbox off three times! In the end got it down to about 4 hours!
First time, ran out of time and had to use the car again so put it back on.
Second time, took it to a transmission specialist who'll remain nameless but told me he'd taken it apart and sorted it, but in actual fact hadn't taken it apart at all, (later confessed).
Third time took it to gravesend transmissions in kent, who I stood over while they carefully disassembled everything and measured everything and told me the gearbox was perfect, and not the cause of the noise. In fact they said it was the most overengineered gearbox they had ever seen on any car. They commented that they had played with gearboxes on 1000hp cars that weren't anywhere near as solidly built as mine.
New BMW sachs clutch and reground facing plates later and the gearbox in the car again. Noise unchanged.
In between times taken to varous BMW dealers to identify noise and all said it was the gearbox. No dual mass flywheel. So now head firmly in hands and not knowing where to go.
By now spent £1000 in transmission specialist bills and new clutch etc looking for the noise
Purely by accident I decided to go looking for a little hesitency that I thought had developed in the engine when pulling away from stop. In retrospect now the problem had seemed to slowly come on over a few months prior to the gearbox noise. So I thought looking for that would be a welcome break from the gearbox.
I convinced myself I had a dry plug on number one cylinder although it was sparking okay, and no change in power noticed, and the engine diagnostics hadn't picked up anything. Right pressure in the fuel rail so I went to take the injector for number one out and noticed the lead to the injector was cracked. Testing showed it open circuit. Repaired in ten minutes when found, and was very pleased, but embarrissed to report a sudden improvement in smoothness, fuel consumption, and most importantly the gearbox noise vanished.
I believe the light flywheel feature, and a slightly off balance V12 was causing the gearbox to create the noise. All goes to show I'm a right plonker and need a good kicking. I will say in my defence that it was very difficult on my V12 to even tell a plug was down. The change in the car was very subtle, none of the BMW dealers spotted it.
Sadly the car is now running perfectly, Sadly because its up for sale in the classifieds
I eventually took the gearbox off three times! In the end got it down to about 4 hours!
First time, ran out of time and had to use the car again so put it back on.
Second time, took it to a transmission specialist who'll remain nameless but told me he'd taken it apart and sorted it, but in actual fact hadn't taken it apart at all, (later confessed).
Third time took it to gravesend transmissions in kent, who I stood over while they carefully disassembled everything and measured everything and told me the gearbox was perfect, and not the cause of the noise. In fact they said it was the most overengineered gearbox they had ever seen on any car. They commented that they had played with gearboxes on 1000hp cars that weren't anywhere near as solidly built as mine.
New BMW sachs clutch and reground facing plates later and the gearbox in the car again. Noise unchanged.
In between times taken to varous BMW dealers to identify noise and all said it was the gearbox. No dual mass flywheel. So now head firmly in hands and not knowing where to go.
By now spent £1000 in transmission specialist bills and new clutch etc looking for the noise Purely by accident I decided to go looking for a little hesitency that I thought had developed in the engine when pulling away from stop. In retrospect now the problem had seemed to slowly come on over a few months prior to the gearbox noise. So I thought looking for that would be a welcome break from the gearbox.
I convinced myself I had a dry plug on number one cylinder although it was sparking okay, and no change in power noticed, and the engine diagnostics hadn't picked up anything. Right pressure in the fuel rail so I went to take the injector for number one out and noticed the lead to the injector was cracked. Testing showed it open circuit. Repaired in ten minutes when found, and was very pleased, but embarrissed to report a sudden improvement in smoothness, fuel consumption, and most importantly the gearbox noise vanished.
I believe the light flywheel feature, and a slightly off balance V12 was causing the gearbox to create the noise. All goes to show I'm a right plonker and need a good kicking. I will say in my defence that it was very difficult on my V12 to even tell a plug was down. The change in the car was very subtle, none of the BMW dealers spotted it.
Sadly the car is now running perfectly, Sadly because its up for sale in the classifieds
Gassing Station | Engines & Drivetrain | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff