Clutch advice - why it failed

[jac-in-a-box]

Need a little help guys - and excuse my poor clutch terminology that follows!

Trying to avoid my kid getting a financial caning IF he's in the right.

Story, in April a BMW specialst changed the clutch on his E36 M3, in less than 3k miles the clutch has failed catastrophically - the pressure plate drive face (not the friction plate) has broken into 4 pieces. I understand that an OE quality full clutch assembly had been fitted inc a "guide tube"
The broken pieces had some signs of blueing - not heavy, but obviously some heating of the drive surface occured.

At the time of failure (couldn't change gear) I'm assured the car wasn't being driven hard, I believe him - he's sensible, loves his car and treats it a reassuring degree of mechanical sympathy Up until the time the clutch failed everything worked normally; no slippage and easy gear changes.
When no gears could be selected (changing from 5th to 4th) the car was stopped and he had a look around. Nothing obvious and no smells. From standstill with engine running nothing could be selected. He managed to select 2nd gear with engine stopped, started engine with clutch depressed and some drive was evident. Released clutch and managed to drive some 12 miles home in second gear by which time there was a distinct smell of burning clutch (cause of blueing mentioned above?)

Car was rcovered to specialist who has again replaced clutch with another LuK unit. The defective clutch is with manuafacturer for assessment wrt to a warranty claim.

Meanwhile the specialist has charged kid £200.00 labour for clutch change and is likely to be asking for a further £200.00+ for replacement clutch unit if the manufacturer deems the clutch hasn't failed through a manufacturing defect.

So my questions:

Anyone care to speculate on the likely cause of failure - specialist claims that he hasn't seen such a failure ever.

Is there anything that the specialist might have missed out wrt fitting clutch that might contributed to the failure?

If you had paid a repairer close to £500.00 6 months and less than 3k miles ago for a clutch change would you expect to have to pay again for a replacement? Just the labour or replacement parts cost or both?
Specialist is avoiding questions on what warranty he provides.

There are other issues with the specialist that are making me nervous, I'll no go into that just now.

Thoughts, opinions and guidance gratefully recieved

[jac-in-a-box]

Thanks for replies guys...

Yes, it is the friction drive/plate that's part of the clutch cover - 4 fractured pieces. "Fingers" on cover plate where all fine.

"Micro-slip" I assume that wouldn't be noticeable under normal driving conditions?

If the defect is agreed to be a manufacturing issue, is it reasonable to expect to have to pay for the labour in fitting the new unit - would a garage be able to claim the labour costs from the manufacturer?

If it had been done at a BMW dealer I'd imagine it would be done FOC if it was deemed the clutch was faulty?

[jac-in-a-box]

Your input is appreciated Dave, thanks. I was typing my last reply while you were posting yours

You sounding tetchy? Not at all...I'm not getting sidetracked either, simply looking to understand how the failure might have occured and if possible prevent my kid being held over a barrel for a few more quid which will ineviatably come from me!

I'm certainly no mechanical whiz-kid and the term "micro-slip" was introduced by another member in a helpful fashion. I'm not familiar with it and simply asked a question from those with greater knowledge than me.

The hypothetical BMW dealer comment was in fact based on past experience - kid bought a sensor from BMW, he fited it and went duff 10 months later. BMW provided a replacement and fitted it FOC.
This really is what I'd hoped the BM specialist would do in the case of the duff clutch.

None-the-less, some good suggestions from you that will be pursued.

Edited by jac-in-a-box on Friday 24th October 13:22

Edited by jac-in-a-box on Friday 24th October 13:24

[jac-in-a-box]

Again, thanks for your further replies.

Clutch return arrangements are fine - I can see what you mean about micro slip now!

The specialist hasn't lost out on the labour, my kid has already paid for it; the car is up and running on its 2nd clutch, it's the prospect of potentially having to pay up for a second clutch, as well that's sticking in his throat. So far it's £750 with another couple of hundred on the the horizon.

We'll just have to wait and see what comes of the manufacturer's investigations, which will then, apparently, be passed to the motor factor who supplied the original clutch and onwards to the specialist...then we'll see what happens.

Had a call from the specialist to ask what sort of flywheel(dual mass or solid) is fitted to the car FGS!!...theyr're all DM flywheels AFAIK
I mean this guy is a BMW "specialist" I'm just nervous that there may be a little scope for dishonesty to creep in.

[jac-in-a-box]

GavinPearson said:

The 'specialist' probably knows how to change the oil on a 316 or 525 but I think that is probably the limit of his 'expertise'.

You might want to avoid him in the future.

He doesn't - that falls undeer the area of concerns I alluded to earlier. He was 2 ltrs short during an oil service at the time he did first clutch...when I asked, he replied "I thought that was all it took"

For sure, he's had one bite of the cherry - he'll not be getting another.

[jac-in-a-box]

GavinPearson said:

That Daddy said:

The cause of clutch failure may be in that last post somewhere rest assured LUK will find out whos to blame.

I think that the odds are that LuK will say it isn't their fault.

Why do you say that Gavin? Are you suggesting that LUK would say it's failed through incorrect fitting?
So far, earlier posts suggest that failure is unlikely to be caused by aggressive driving - which I'm confident is not the case.

I really need to know what stance to adopt should the specialist be asking for further ££'s...I'll seek advice from CAB, but would be eager to hear the views of contributors to this thread.

[jac-in-a-box]

GavinPearson said:

First of all we are assuming an LuK part was fitted and it may not have been. Then we are assuming that the clutch fitted was rated to accept the torque of the engine. Assuming that these are both OK, a clutch manufacturer would say that any evidence of grease on the disc indicates a fitting issue. And so the list will go on.....

When it goes to court, who are people going to believe?

A 'specialist' garage or a world renowned clutch manufacturer?

I think you are best off suing the 'specialist' in small claims court and take the car to a BMW dealer.

Thanks Gavin - a few assumptions there, but I'm hoping the the correct clutch was fitted.

I think I need to get in the loop with the manufacturer as to what their findings will be and take it from there.

Personally, I'll have no difficulty in believing the manufacturer over the specialist given his recent performance.If I can get a definitive answer from LUK, it'll be interesting compare what filters down from the LUK>factor>specialist>kid...I could almost (cynically) imagine that a failure due to fitting issues could morph into clutch abused scenario with a request for cash from specialist