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T40ORA
Original Poster
2,905 posts
46 months
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Firstly, and most importantly, this is NOT a "Mines bigger/faster/better than yours!" thread.
This is genuinely in the interests of comparison to let as many people with Sp6 engined cars know what is out there and what the relative merits of each are should their engines eventually go "Pop!".
So...how many owners of cars with rebuilt engines would be prepared to meet up for a day so we could try out each others' cars? We could include a rolling road where all are checked on the same machinery, if anyone wants to, but some form of controlled environment would be preferred. So a track day or airfield day.
Icraigmy and d18cma are both up for it.
Whadyathink?
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Oat$y
343 posts
43 months
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Why only Re-built cars, why not compare to those that haven't had a rebuild, you might be very suprised at the results 
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T40ORA
Original Poster
2,905 posts
46 months
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[quote=Oat$y]Why only Re-built cars, why not compare to those that haven't had a rebuild, you might be very suprised at the results [/quote] Absolutely, why not indeed. The original idea was just to look at all the options and to try to get some overall view. However, there should always be a control group with some 'good' examples of non rebuilt ones. I can think of one Tamora that is extremely strong and quick, according to people that have driven it. So yeah; open to all comers!
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OatSy
343 posts
43 months
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Count me in if it soon as a benchmark, the car is still in the UK but wont be for long.
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TVR_owner
1,800 posts
18 months
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T40ORA said: I can think of one Tamora that is extremely strong and quick I can also think of one that is silky smooth, strong, quiet and has very good oil pressure - as it was from the factory 4+ years ago. There is no the owner would let folk she does not know drive it and she would probably never let it near a dyno - why would you?? The cars will drive differently depending on how fresh they are from service, how good the service was, and will feel better if the car is less involving to drive (suspension correctly set-up). I honestly can't see the point of the excercise.
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T40ORA
Original Poster
2,905 posts
46 months
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Will it hurt?
Might it show something?
Will it be fun?
Lots of reasons, and if you don'# try you never discover.
On the basis that I have nothing to hide or lose from the exercise I'm up for it.
John, having strong opinions is a great thing, but being intransigent and just putting obstacles where they don't exist seems irrational.
If people slate my car and stndard engines are judged to be better than mine, so be it. But if we never experimented and tested we still be in caves!
And from a project management perspective, performing a benefits realisation exercise is a must.
So I'm STILL up for it!
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TVR_owner
1,800 posts
18 months
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T40ORA said: Will it hurt?
Might it show something?
Will it be fun?
Lots of reasons, and if you don'# try you never discover.
On the basis that I have nothing to hide or lose from the exercise I'm up for it.
John, having strong opinions is a great thing, but being intransigent and just putting obstacles where they don't exist seems irrational.
If people slate my car and stndard engines are judged to be better than mine, so be it. But if we never experimented and tested we still be in caves!
And from a project management perspective, performing a benefits realisation exercise is a must.
So I'm STILL up for it! Will it hurt? Probably not if everyone is insured correctly and they treat each others car with respect. Might it show something? With any basis in fact, probably not. Will it be fun? Probably as long as nothing goes wrong with your car while someone else is driving it. Having strong opinions is not always a great thing. I dont think I'm intransigent nor am I putting obstacles in the way. I'm happen to be very anti poor bench marking. An example of poor bench-marking is where folk ill qualified to judge compare cars of a an uncertain standard. This bench-marking excercise becomes set in stone because... If we never experimented and tested we still indeed still be in caves I agree, but the steps change on the way out of caves were a little different to folk comparing subtle change. A caveman knew if he was hot or cold, dry or wet, and had a good idea if he was safe for preditors - natural instinct played a huge part. From a project management perspective you need good data to perform a benefits realisation exercise worth anything. Will you have that, will you have any 3000 mile S6 engines that have been correctly run-in to compare ?? If youre up for it fine, I'm sure lots of others will be too and I hope and I'm sure you will enjoy it. I will cringe quietly in advance at folk waffeling on in these forums trying to put some kind of logic and science to the hole thing without actually understanding the base subject.
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OatSy
343 posts
43 months
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TVR_owner said: T40ORA said: Will it hurt?
Might it show something?
Will it be fun?
Lots of reasons, and if you don'# try you never discover.
On the basis that I have nothing to hide or lose from the exercise I'm up for it.
John, having strong opinions is a great thing, but being intransigent and just putting obstacles where they don't exist seems irrational.
If people slate my car and stndard engines are judged to be better than mine, so be it. But if we never experimented and tested we still be in caves!
And from a project management perspective, performing a benefits realisation exercise is a must.
So I'm STILL up for it! Will it hurt? Probably not if everyone is insured correctly and they treat each others car with respect. Might it show something? With any basis in fact, probably not. Will it be fun? Probably as long as nothing goes wrong with your car while someone else is driving it. Having strong opinions is not always a great thing. I dont think I'm intransigent nor am I putting obstacles in the way. I'm happen to be very anti poor bench marking. An example of poor bench-marking is where folk ill qualified to judge compare cars of a an uncertain standard. This bench-marking excercise becomes set in stone because... If we never experimented and tested we still indeed still be in caves I agree, but the steps change on the way out of caves were a little different to folk comparing subtle change. A caveman knew if he was hot or cold, dry or wet, and had a good idea if he was safe for preditors - natural instinct played a huge part. From a project management perspective you need good data to perform a benefits realisation exercise worth anything. Will you have that, will you have any 3000 mile S6 engines that have been correctly run-in to compare ?? If youre up for it fine, I'm sure lots of others will be too and I hope and I'm sure you will enjoy it. I will cringe quietly in advance at folk waffeling on in these forums trying to put some kind of logic and science to the hole thing without actually understanding the base subject. I think you are taking this too seriously, I see it as a bit of fun, probably nothing will come out of it except a pleasant day. I have no quarms about someone else with a sp6 car driving my car it's just a car after all.
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T40ORA
Original Poster
2,905 posts
46 months
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So it looks like all reviews in car magazines are flawed and should be ignored?
John, if you know people are waffling then don't read the reviews.
Nobody is saying one engine is better than another, and nobody is saying it is scientific. TVRs are visceral and needto be felt. All will probably be very good but will feel different.
And there is nothing wrong with generating the opportunity to try other offerings.
Talking about how things feel is not in my mind waffling.
Now; back to the original thread.
Rather than knock it, who wants to be in?
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TVR_owner
1,800 posts
18 months
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T40ORA said: So it looks like all reviews in car magazines are flawed and should be ignored?
John, if you know people are waffling then don't read the reviews.
Nobody is saying one engine is better than another, and nobody is saying it is scientific. TVRs are visceral and needto be felt. All will probably be very good but will feel different.
And there is nothing wrong with generating the opportunity to try other offerings.
Talking about how things feel is not in my mind waffling.
Now; back to the original thread.
Rather than knock it, who wants to be in? So it looks like all reviews in car magazines are flawed and should be ignored? Not all but several are flawed. Ignore accept, your choice. I guess the bottom line is I'm already sick to death about hearing how wonderfull FFF engines are when theyre only 2 or 3,000 miles old. Sadly Lee, youre probably to blame!!  Enjoy the day and you know I'll read the reviews and I hope you spend your commission wisely...
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tuscan_al
2,234 posts
41 months
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I would happily let my 26k since an 06 rebuild from power 4.0 tuscan in for comparison. I'm looking to drive verysideways new addition soon, want to see how different his fresh new nitrons feel from mine with 26k on it. Will help me justify the cost of rebuild on the nitrons. As for engines, it would be interesting to see how all these cars with what is essentially the same engine feel like, as they all sound so different even with the same exhaust mods??! Plus I have driven very few other TVR's, was very tempted when I drove Gaffer's sag to change up..
Will keep an eye on this thread. As for a location SRR and Vixpy1 could accommodate I'm sure, lots of good roads in the area pubs and a rolling road for that all important pub bragging rites.
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T40ORA
Original Poster
2,905 posts
46 months
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John,
If you're sick to death then don't read the reviews.
And I resent the implication that I am in some way benefitting from my flag waving.
You haven't driven one, you haven't seen one and you've not (to my knowledge) spoken to the engineers about the what and the why of their design. Yet you continue to show nothing but scepticism. Even when I'm trying to place the FFF engine up to be knocked down.
Not sure that I understand what you are trying to achieve.
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TVR_owner
1,800 posts
18 months
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T40ORA said: John,
If you're sick to death then don't read the reviews.
And I resent the implication that I am in some way benefitting from my flag waving.
You haven't driven one, you haven't seen one and you've not (to my knowledge) spoken to the engineers about the what and the why of their design. Yet you continue to show nothing but scepticism. Even when I'm trying to place the FFF engine up to be knocked down.
Not sure that I understand what you are trying to achieve. Lee you obviously missed the smilies or I touched a nerve, whatever. I read the posts because I'm interested - it's not a morbid intrest either.. But I'll rise to it... I go shopping when I need something, I shop where I can afford, and I shop where I think I'll get VFM. When I need advice about a product, I speak to folk with a reputation for delivering the best I can afford. So, .........I don't need a rebuild, therefore no need to shop. I don't think the RG upgrade is value for money and I don't need to know the details to come to that conclusion. It has no reputation other than what is attempting to be generated on here via flag waving. Speaking to folk with a reputation for delivering the best would also preclude RG from my shopping list so I wont speak with them. What am I trying to achieve? - nothing other than to perhaps make folk stop and think before they part with huge amounts of money. Autocraft isn't so long ago in my memeory and I see MANY similarities. If that makes me the villian youre trying to make me out to be, then guilty as charged Thought. I'm sure if engines started to go bang in short mileages after folks bought - possibly fired up by your enthusiasm and endless flag waving, then found themselves having to go to another builder and face yet another bill you wouldn't feel too good about it. I certainly wouldn't. ........and breath
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stimshady
365 posts
14 months
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looks like this post didn't go as expected...  ...edited, meant thread, not post.
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HRG
39,746 posts
66 months
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I was thinking about swapping my Griff for a Tam, but I'm not so sure now 
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TVR_owner
1,800 posts
18 months
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stimshady said: looks like this post didn't go as expected... I'll just leave the thread then. My intention was not to turn anyone against the idea of the fun day out. We're all over 21 ( I guess) you all earn your own money (I guess) and it's yours to spend how you feel you'll get what you want. I was just trying to add some balance to the situation - something that will always be seen as negative when folk are on such a positive roller coaster as Lee is.
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OatSy
343 posts
43 months
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TVR_owner said: stimshady said: looks like this post didn't go as expected... I'll just leave the thread then. My intention was not to turn anyone against the idea of the fun day out. We're all over 21 ( I guess) you all earn your own money (I guess) and it's yours to spend how you feel you'll get what you want. I was just trying to add some balance to the situation - something that will always be seen as negative when folk are on such a positive roller coaster as Lee is. For me it seems you have a grudge against one or all of RG/FFF/T40ORA. You probably don't but as I read I got that impression. I can understand you not being in favour of RG as I myself am not a fan. I was taught never to pee on someone elses fire and everyone will be happy.
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TVR_owner
1,800 posts
18 months
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OatSy said: TVR_owner said: stimshady said: looks like this post didn't go as expected... I'll just leave the thread then. My intention was not to turn anyone against the idea of the fun day out. We're all over 21 ( I guess) you all earn your own money (I guess) and it's yours to spend how you feel you'll get what you want. I was just trying to add some balance to the situation - something that will always be seen as negative when folk are on such a positive roller coaster as Lee is. For me it seems you have a grudge against one or all of RG/FFF/T40ORA. You probably don't but as I read I got that impression. I can understand you not being in favour of RG as I myself am not a fan. I was taught never to pee on someone elses fire and everyone will be happy. No grudges- certainly not with Lee. You're probably right about RG. Peeing on fires mois???? - I feel hurt by that implication, although it must be said I am sensitive.. I prefer to look at it more as trying to dampen down the flames of enthusiasim to prevent the possiblity of others being burned unnecessarily.
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T450t
246 posts
18 months
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Only time will tell but for sure the FFF is not cheap and Lee your enthusiasm towards the RG FFF is enviable but believe me there are engines out there that are as smooth as much torque and as fast if not faster. I am sure once it has stood the test of time folk will accept it. I think some of the claims on the FFF thread are strange if not slightly miss leading.
After the debacle of Autocraft and the attempt by Wilder, some people are less optimistic than you.
Nice to see a new option though. Fingers crossed as they say.
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VARLEYHYD
1,375 posts
34 months
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T450t said: but believe me there are engines out there that are as smooth as much torque and as fast if not faster. And even faster maybe  My 4.35litre torquemaster fiqures may be revealed oneday  G 
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