Carbon Ceramic brake life

[BamfordMike]

Byteme said:

I don't need to ask an "insider", I have the full details here so can tell you for a fact that the approved procedure doesn't involve breaking the national speed limit.

sorry, you wear rate is?

as for the bed in procedure - wrong! Or at least what your looking at is not for disc / ccm. Want to select reverse twice in one day! But this is now an irrelevant point as disc can not be bought separate from bedded-in pads

Edited by BamfordMike on Sunday 5th October 17:17

[cayman-black]

tonyhall38 said:

My discs are going to be checked over by AM.....while it has some warrenty work done....will let you all know when I know...but I suspect I already know the answer....and it won't be expensive.....

I think they are knacked TH.

[Byteme]

J12KJR said:

Previously I would have thought the same but a while back one of the the AM dealers I popped into was telling me about a car they had had to replace the disks on at less than 20,000 miles. It was for a customer they had dealt with for a long while and who they considered to be relatively light on brakes.

I think that as with Tony on here its the uncertanty that bothers, with steel disks its easy to see their condition wheras the CCMs are not.

For my style of driving I don't think CCMs are necessary, I don't do track days and am not the last of the late brakers but I still like to have the knowledge passed on to me for when I may end up looking at a CCM shod car.

I would sooner be cautious and get something checked than have an unexpected bill that could run into the £10,000 area.

It doesn't matter what the technology is, sometimes it performs less than perfectly. I would suspect that disc replacement was for required to remedy some unusual problem.

The advantages of CCM brakes are not limited just to stopping the vehicle. They are incredibly light so provide a considerable reduction in unsprung weight giving better handling.

[Byteme]

BamfordMike said:

Byteme said:

I don't need to ask an "insider", I have the full details here so can tell you for a fact that the approved procedure doesn't involve breaking the national speed limit.

sorry, you wear rate is?

as for the bed in procedure - wrong! Or at least what your looking at is not for disc / ccm. Want to select reverse twice in one day! But this is now an irrelevant point as disc can not be bought separate from bedded-in pads

Edited by BamfordMike on Sunday 5th October 17:17

It would be so easy to make this information public so everyone can see that it's you who is wrong however, it's work related. Clearly your not entitled to see manufacturer's official technical data.

Edited by Byteme on Sunday 5th October 17:26

[J12KJR]

Only because I find things like this of interest for the future I had a quick google of bedding in processes, the following was from Corner Balances site, whilst many will not put the temperature paint on it is interesting to note that they state braking from 85MPH to 25MPH for 5 to 8 times.
How many technicians are going to risk their licences by carrying that out on the public even if they can find a section of road that allowed it to happen safely.

Probably a very good reason why the sets now come bedded in so that incorrect bedding in doesn't happen. Who is to say how well any of the earlier ones were bedded in or in some cases wether they were bedded in at all.

Bedding Your Brake Pads in the RIGHT Way
22 Aug

Bedding your new brake pads is one of the most often ignored, but critical aspects to ensuring the pads operate as they should, and last as long as they should. All too often, customers experience odd noises, vibration, grabbiness, lack of response, etc, all due to improper pad bedding. Here is how to bed your brakes, the right way. This guide was written by Endless, but applies to all pad compounds out there.

PRE-BEDDING PROCEDURES:
-Please make sure pads are mounted on clean disks free of contaminants, dirt and friction material if switching to Endless brake pads from a different manufacturer. This can be done by resurfacing the rotor surface. This will ensure the best performance from Endless brake pads.
-Make sure the brake pads are installed correctly.
-If using Endless brake pads on the racetrack, please use rotor temperature paint on the brake rotor’s vanes and cheeks to monitor disk temperatures, and this will also assist in making sure the brake system is working at optimum conditions.
NOTE: This is especially needed if using Endless brake pads with Porsche PCCB, Brembo/SGL CCM, or Nissan NCCB brake disks on the racetrack. Brake disk wear on OEM CCM disks can greatly increase if the disks are used beyond the acceptable temperature range. Please do not use CCM disks for extended periods of time over 600 degrees Celsius. If the pink temperature paint has turned white on the rotor cheeks, then extra care should be taken.

BEDDING INFORMATION: Brake pad bedding will help optimize the overall braking performance of Endless brake pads by laying down a transfer layer of pad friction material on the brake rotor. This utilizes the adhesive friction properties of brake pads and disks to offer best braking performance. Bedding also burns off the initial bonding resins and helps seat the pad on the disk. Proper bedding involves slowly heat
cycling the pads and disks so that initial pad glazing, and other potential issues are avoided as much as possible. This will help the Endless brake pads and disks last as long as possible.

BEDDING:
 Please allow plenty of safety space when performing bedding. Please do in a safe and controlled environment.
 Using 70-80% pedal pressure, stop the car from 85 mph to 25 mph for a total of 5-8 braking events. The brakes should start feeling better by each stop. DO NOT bring the car to a complete
stop, especially holding the right foot on the brake pedal on hot brake disks.
 Do not use left foot braking for bedding procedures.
 When bedding, bring the brake rotor temperatures to 400C. If the disks have temperature paint on them, the green paint should have turned fully white.
 Let the brakes cool down to ambient temperatures before hard use.
 If performed on a racetrack, 2-3 hot laps around the circuit at race speed should be enough to complete bedding of pads and disks.
 Please take a close look at the brake disks after bedding, to ensure and even pad transfer onto the disks

[BamfordMike]

Byteme said:

It would be so easy to make this information public so everyone can see that it's you who is wrong however, it's work related. Clearly your not entitled to see manufacturer's official technical data.

Edited by Byteme on Sunday 5th October 17:26

that's the ticket. Make allegations of folk spreading BS, which is really rather offensive, be proven wrong once, meaning saying the advice was BS was actually the BS, yet continue to hide behind words not provable data. I'm even boring myself continuing to reply to you, so i will knock it on the head

[AstonTony]

If the CCM were replaced for steel, would this be a straight replacement? Also, could new pads just be fit to the existing callipers?

This may be a fix so that the cars can carry on being enjoyed without exorbitant cost and the CCM could be put back on before selling?

Would this work and if so approx how much do you think it would cost to replace all 4 discs and pads?

I am not technical so may be talking bks, please go easy on me.

[Byteme]

J12KJR said:

Only because I find things like this of interest for the future I had a quick google of bedding in processes, the following was from Corner Balances site, whilst many will not put the temperature paint on it is interesting to note that they state braking from 85MPH to 25MPH for 5 to 8 times.
How many technicians are going to risk their licences by carrying that out on the public even if they can find a section of road that allowed it to happen safely.

Clearly none. That's why the official manufacturer process, the one BamfordMike appears ignorant of, didn't require exceeding the national speed limit at any point. Come on, what manufacturer would even dream of telling dealer network staff to drive above the speed limit?

[V8 Animal]

AstonTony said:

If the CCM were replaced for steel, would this be a straight replacement? Also, could new pads just be fit to the existing callipers?

This may be a fix so that the cars can carry on being enjoyed without exorbitant cost and the CCM could be put back on before selling?

Would this work and if so approx how much do you think it would cost to replace all 4 discs and pads?

I am not technical so may be talking bks, please go easy on me.

It's in grants book a DBS used for track use only replaced with steel disks for cost reasons.

[Byteme]

BamfordMike said:

Byteme said:

It would be so easy to make this information public so everyone can see that it's you who is wrong however, it's work related. Clearly your not entitled to see manufacturer's official technical data.

Edited by Byteme on Sunday 5th October 17:26

that's the ticket. Make allegations of folk spreading BS, which is really rather offensive, be proven wrong once, meaning saying the advice was BS was actually the BS, yet continue to hide behind words not provable data. I'm even boring myself continuing to reply to you, so i will knock it on the head

What's up Mike, why are you always so afraid of anyone undermining your credibility? It's the same story every time anyone questions you. Are you worried you'll get hit in the pocket when owners decide to take their business elsewhere?

Oh, and please, no more offensive private emails.

Edited by Byteme on Sunday 5th October 18:58

[amv12]

McLaren’s procedure for bedding in new pads / discs

[cayman-black]

Offensive private emails...? Really?

[Byteme]

amv12 said:

McLaren’s procedure for bedding in new pads / discs

A bit different to BamfordMike's earlier post where he said "The bedding-in procedure requires a drive of approx 60 kilometers with many full on the ABS stops from 100mph down to a dead stop. I would imagine that because of a dealer principal not wanting to carry the liability of a)his technicians driving those conditions b)releasing a car with poor braking performance if the cycle wasn't run perfectly, this call was made."

I would love to be in on a meeting where the DP asks his techies to drive at 100mph.

Of course if you could convince an owner a 60km drive was necessary, presumably you'd charge him the labour incurred.

[BamfordMike]

cayman-black said:

Offensive private emails...? Really?

nope. Not at all, poster making a meal of it.

i will send you if you are so interested, i have nothing to hide.

i actually said to him that his earlier post stating i was spreading "daft allegations and BS" was and is very offensive to me! and i wanted apology seeing he has been proven wrong. His last post to me shows signs of a troll which isn't to continue the discussion central to topic but goad another poster, Which i wont react to.

its clear from the outset the advice is to inform prospective buyer, which isn't for my benefit, actually, by airing all the issues reduces need for a pre purchase inspection, so if anything my lists of many advice points are counter productive for me

[tonyhall38]

cayman-black said:

tonyhall38 said:

My discs are going to be checked over by AM.....while it has some warrenty work done....will let you all know when I know...but I suspect I already know the answer....and it won't be expensive.....

I think they are knacked TH.

We will see.....

[Byteme]

BamfordMike said:

nope. Not at all, poster making a meal of it.

i will send you if you are so interested, i have nothing to hide.

i actually said to him that his earlier post stating i was spreading "daft allegations and BS" was and is very offensive to me! and i wanted apology seeing he has been proven wrong. His last post to me shows signs of a troll which isn't to continue the discussion central to topic but goad another poster, Which i wont react to.

its clear from the outset the advice is to inform prospective buyer, which isn't for my benefit, actually, by airing all the issues reduces need for a pre purchase inspection, so if anything my lists of many advice points are counter productive for me

At no point have you proven me wrong. I however along with other contributors have cast considerable doubt upon your assertion that I felt needed addressing because it is precisely what I called it. I'm not goading you, just pointing out that the advice you are giving is inaccurate and therefore misleading.

This is why, after some thought, I deleted last weeks post. Your reaction was always going to be so predictable and no doubt you'll wind up the sheep and get them to back you. You can't stand anyone disagreeing with you and there are numerous examples on this forum where you show this again and again.

[BamfordMike]

amv12 said:

McLaren’s procedure for bedding in new pads / discs

the posts about disc bed in procedure are pointless because a disc can not be bought separate to pad, a fact that byteme had to do a 180 over. But the discussion is kept wrongly alive because he refuses to accept the bed in procedure is as harsh as what i say, in that to correctly bed in the ccm disc and pad they need to experience fade for first time and it takes a lot of heat / speed / distance to accomplish that, yet in disagreement cant post up evidence to contrary.

without being able to agree on that point, the big question to answer would be why the factory changed its direction and went from selling a disc separate from pad to only selling disc with a pad - bedding in problems in car? Because now discs and pads are bed in on rig

[J12KJR]

Byteme said:

A bit different to BamfordMike's earlier post where he said "The bedding-in procedure requires a drive of approx 60 kilometers with many full on the ABS stops from 100mph down to a dead stop.

So from the bedding in procedure given above 16 stops covering approx 10 second cycle is going to take somewhere around 3miles to achieve, 16@ 15 secs around 4 miles and 10 @ 20 secs around 6 miles which would be around 21 Km add in the minimum cool downs of 18Km and you are at 48Km without the need for any extra cool downs, getting to and from a suitable stretch of road and finding suitable gaps in the traffic to carry out repeated stops.
Irrespective of all this it is still requiring a driver to break the UK speed limit on a dual carriagway or motorway which as you rightly say no dealer principle is going to request of his/her staff.
If you want to post up AM's previous procedure to show any of the previous posts are wrong then please do so and we can all be educated by it.

In the meantime although I may be on my own with this, but I doubt it, can we stop the mud slinging on this one please.

It's a topic that interests people and it's good to have technical input from those with a known background but there is no need need for it to descend into the continual bhing.

[whoami]

J12KJR said:

can we stop the mud slinging on this one please.

there is no need need for it to descend into the continual bhing.

It's beyond a joke now.

Tedious and boring.

[Byteme]

BamfordMike said:

the posts about disc bed in procedure are pointless because a disc can not be bought separate to pad, a fact that byteme had to do a 180 over. But the discussion is kept wrongly alive because he refuses to accept the bed in procedure is as harsh as what i say, in that to correctly bed in the ccm disc and pad they need to experience fade for first time and it takes a lot of heat / speed / distance to accomplish that, yet in disagreement cant post up evidence to contrary.

without being able to agree on that point, the big question to answer would be why the factory changed its direction and went from selling a disc separate from pad to only selling disc with a pad - bedding in problems in car? Because now discs and pads are bed in on rig

There was never a "180", it's just that your ability to read is nearly as poor as your grammar.

I posted that until recently pads and discs were supplied separately. My point has always been that your "advice" differed from the manufacturer's procedure but hey, what do Aston Martin know? Same with Maclaren, who also appear to know less than you.