Manual vs Auto on the big GT
Poll: Manual vs Auto on the big GT
Total Members Polled: 62
Discussion
George29 said:
Because you cannot measure involvement, therefore if you compare the two on things that can be measured, the manual just doesn't come close.
Not to mention if they got a good dual clutch automated manual 0-60 times would probably come down which people seem to keep saying they want.
So anything that cannot be measured quantitatively cannot be considered a benefit or a drawback? Not to mention if they got a good dual clutch automated manual 0-60 times would probably come down which people seem to keep saying they want.
Even with my scientific and engineering background I reject that notion.KarlFranz said:
So anything that cannot be measured quantitatively cannot be considered a benefit or a drawback? Even with my scientific and engineering background I reject that notion.
Well yes... you can't compare something fairly if you already have a personal bias towards or against it. Facts and figures are the only way to go to get a fair comparison. Even with my scientific and engineering background I reject that notion.George29 said:
Well yes... you can't compare something fairly if you already have a personal bias towards or against it. Facts and figures are the only way to go to get a fair comparison.
Aren't facts and figures - per se - open to bias and subjectivity ???Example: in a survey 10% of people say they prefer Manual cars. One side cites this as a reason not to produce them. However, last year the figure was only 9%, so the other side cites a 'massive' increase of 11% in people who would rather drive Manual cars as a future trend (extrapolated) and so a reason TO produce Manual cars.
Facts and figures do not remove personal bias. They can instead be used to reinforce it.
Now, where's me porridge?
woolders said:
AMDBSNick said:
Sadly the majority of GT drivers don't want three pedals. As an aside go have a drive in the new DB9.2 and Vanquish
This from a young Git who swears by a manual box.There's way too much confusion between many buyers about the different types of two pedal systems - to say 'I prefer manuals' is fine but to suggest, as one poster has, that 'all 2 pedal systems are equally boring' is a comment I find astonishing. I'm not disagreeing with the poster - patently if he has tried all 3 types on a meaningful test drive (or ownership experience) he is entitled to hold that view and no-one is in a position to argue with someone's informed personal opinion
But what I find is that the best way of summarising the differences is to look at how much time is spent in D mode and how much time is spent manually 'rowing' - I'd wager most owners of cars with torque convertor auto rarely use flappies in the real world and most owners of single clutch automated manuals rarely use the D mode - that tells you all that you need to know about the differences. I'd equally wager most owners of DCT boxes are somewhere in the middle, particularly on sports cars (DCT in saloons, in all but the sportiest versions will spend most of their time in auto mode)
Even as a manual fan whose recently purchased 2nd car is a manual, I agree that it makes sense for a car like the 12C to have DCT (as it's raison d'etre is lap & acceleration times) and a GT like DB9 to have at the very least, a 2 pedal option that would probably be the biggest seller because you expect 2 pedals in a GT
The problem IMO is not as straightforward as manual being dropped in most Astons (indeed most cars of any description). The problem is what Aston's alternatives are to manual compared to other marques. We have to get used to a limited range of manual options in sports cars, especially outside niche products. But Aston need to get their act together if they don't want to lose even more sales by not offering attractive options to manual as more of their cars drop it as an option
So that means either the latest 8 speed ZF or DCT in the GTs, it means DCT in at least the Vantage/equivalent and it means they need to put DCT or keep manual as an option in at least one of their 'most sporting' cars.
But what I find is that the best way of summarising the differences is to look at how much time is spent in D mode and how much time is spent manually 'rowing' - I'd wager most owners of cars with torque convertor auto rarely use flappies in the real world and most owners of single clutch automated manuals rarely use the D mode - that tells you all that you need to know about the differences. I'd equally wager most owners of DCT boxes are somewhere in the middle, particularly on sports cars (DCT in saloons, in all but the sportiest versions will spend most of their time in auto mode)
Even as a manual fan whose recently purchased 2nd car is a manual, I agree that it makes sense for a car like the 12C to have DCT (as it's raison d'etre is lap & acceleration times) and a GT like DB9 to have at the very least, a 2 pedal option that would probably be the biggest seller because you expect 2 pedals in a GT
The problem IMO is not as straightforward as manual being dropped in most Astons (indeed most cars of any description). The problem is what Aston's alternatives are to manual compared to other marques. We have to get used to a limited range of manual options in sports cars, especially outside niche products. But Aston need to get their act together if they don't want to lose even more sales by not offering attractive options to manual as more of their cars drop it as an option
So that means either the latest 8 speed ZF or DCT in the GTs, it means DCT in at least the Vantage/equivalent and it means they need to put DCT or keep manual as an option in at least one of their 'most sporting' cars.
mikey k said:
jonby said:
I'd wager most owners of cars with torque convertor auto rarely use flappies in the real world and most owners of single clutch automated manuals rarely use the D mode - that tells you all that you need to know about the differences.
Very good pointPart of the reasn for this might be that robotic manuals tend not to be very good in D mode though.
yeti said:
Part of the reasn for this might be that robotic manuals tend not to be very good in D mode though.
definitely. But the clues are in the names - one is called 'automatic' by pretty much all bar Aston (who call it TT). The other, which is mostly referred to by some meaningless manufacturer's name (sportshift, F1, e-shift, etc) is more commonly/collectively known as automated or clutchless manual.Part of this depends on the direction Aston want to go in. In fairness, they have traditionally primarily made GTs. Cars like V12V are once in a blue moon. So if they want to continue with GTs, you could argue that they can get away with ZF torque convertors - I assume that's what Bentley & Rolls use
But I see cars like vanquish as being more sportingly capable than cars like Bentley's continental and if so, they won't be taken seriously in that role with the current gearbox and lack of an alternative choice of box.
And Vantage is not a GT. They were unfortunate in having it called the baby/entry level/budget Aston when it first launched as lack of sufficient power (in 4.3 guise) apart, it's a seriously capable sports car. But they certainly will struggle with that car if they don't put the right box in - it's reasonable to assume that sportshift's days are numbered so the replacement, potentially conventional auto, will be very interesting
yeti said:
mikey k said:
Jockman said:
Yes. In 3 years I've only used the paddles twice
Some what surprising considering the photos you & Luna have been posting on other threads 
But my retina are still burned with Jockmans/Luna's images of George
When I had a test drive of the new Virage when it came out the AM Driver was really surprised that I drove the TT box only using the flappy paddles. I hated it in auto mode and it seemed the natural thing to do and usually kept it in sport mode to get what I believed were quicker shifts and the car makes a much better noise. He said that in all the test drives he had done I was only the second customer who had immediately used the paddles. Perhaps it was because I had come from SS Vantages prior to my 9? Just getting used to the manual on the V12VR and have to say I love it - although do still find myself trying to change gear using the non existent paddles 
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