How much better ARE regular P Zero's in damp cold weather
Discussion
I am running on PZero's - non Corsa. I swapped to these on purchasing the car so cannot make a fair comparison with the Corsa's. Traction in the wet will always be an issue if you're wearing heavy boots either in a straight line or accelerating out of bends or particularly from roundabouts. The non Corsa's are still a high performance tyre and not exactly Nankangs - there may be a difference in ultimate grip in warm, dry conditions compared with the Corsa variant but as I have said before really just how fast do you sanely want to go around bends on public roads? I'd say for road use the non Corsa is the much better year round compromise. However I have recently been tempted by a very cheap set of lightly worn Corsa's that I was offered by someone I know - he is another owner moving away from them, as I understand (from a couple of service managers I have spoken to) a majority of owners are when they come to replace tyres.
There are no insurance issues as long as you ensure that the tyres fitted have the 'AM8' marking.
PS I understand going rate for a set of P Zero's is £1k inc VAT and fitting from a reputable tyre dealer - add 40% from AM.
There are no insurance issues as long as you ensure that the tyres fitted have the 'AM8' marking.
PS I understand going rate for a set of P Zero's is £1k inc VAT and fitting from a reputable tyre dealer - add 40% from AM.
My car had Corsas on when I bought it, never really had a problem with them, even on the odd occasion I went out on a frosty morning - give the tyres a similar amount of time to the engine to warm up, be sensible with throttle applications in cold conditions and they are fine. In the dry they were very grippy.
Having said that, I changed to the regular AM approved P-Zero when they were due for replacement. Ultimate dry level grip may not be quite as good, but the difference, and more likely the chances of noticing during road driving are negligible. I wanted something to deal with standing water and wet weather better - we do live in the UK after all, and on several occasions have been very impressed in the ability to maintain a decent pace in heavy rain.
What you gain slightly with the corsas in the dry is outweighed by the regular P Zero ability in the wet, and for me at least, all things being equal, when conditions are at their worse is when you rely on the tyres that bit more.
Having said that, I changed to the regular AM approved P-Zero when they were due for replacement. Ultimate dry level grip may not be quite as good, but the difference, and more likely the chances of noticing during road driving are negligible. I wanted something to deal with standing water and wet weather better - we do live in the UK after all, and on several occasions have been very impressed in the ability to maintain a decent pace in heavy rain.
What you gain slightly with the corsas in the dry is outweighed by the regular P Zero ability in the wet, and for me at least, all things being equal, when conditions are at their worse is when you rely on the tyres that bit more.
controlz said:
P.S - If I do buy the car and change to regular P Zero's, I'll have a set of Corsa's all with 5mm on if anyone is interested?
If not getting the P Zeros as a swap and you have to buy them outright, then do yourself a favor and do a little research on this forum and others regarding what's a better tire choice, such as the universally praised Michelin Pilot Super Sport.
DB9VolanteDriver said:
If not getting the P Zeros as a swap and you have to buy them outright, then do yourself a favor and do a little research on this forum and others regarding what's a better tire choice, such as the universally praised Michelin Pilot Super Sport.
Interesting - I've searched the forum's plenty in regards to V12's and tyres and all I found was talk of the P Zero and nothing on the Michelin's. Perhaps I'm looking in the wrong place... Are these a lot better?Retman said:
There are no insurance issues as long as you ensure that the tyres fitted have the 'AM8' marking.
This isn't true, I'm afraid. You will not invalidate your insurance if you fitted a set of, say, Michelin Pilot Supersports.AM, however, might try to wriggle out of a warranty claim if the tyres were involved somehow.
Where in the UK do you live? What is the approximate percentage of winter driving you will do in temperatures of less than 7C? Even if you will be spending a large part of the winter in temperatures of 10C or less, my advice is to go with winter tires. You will get more traction from winter tires the closer you get to freezing, and even at 7C I would bet they would stick better than PZeros. In my experience, people who have never used winter tires consistently underestimate their importance; if you use or have used them, my apologies.
Then keep your Corsas for the best of both worlds!
Then keep your Corsas for the best of both worlds!
quench said:
Where in the UK do you live? What is the approximate percentage of winter driving you will do in temperatures of less than 7C? Even if you will be spending a large part of the winter in temperatures of 10C or less, my advice is to go with winter tires. You will get more traction from winter tires the closer you get to freezing, and even at 7C I would bet they would stick better than PZeros. In my experience, people who have never used winter tires consistently underestimate their importance; if you use or have used them, my apologies.
Then keep your Corsas for the best of both worlds!
I live on the outskirts of London, and drive a short 4-mile commute to work everyday. Unfortunately come September, the road's are going to be wet most of the time so a) my tyres won't warm up, and b) it will be cold! I;m not concerned about the snow, as I'll drive my Range Rover then, but I want something good for the wet autumn months.Then keep your Corsas for the best of both worlds!
Are winters okay even in dry conditions - E.g. can still use the car fine on 100% dry roads and sunny spells during the winter months?
controlz said:
Are winters okay even in dry conditions - E.g. can still use the car fine on 100% dry roads and sunny spells during the winter months?
Of course. They are winter tyres, not racing wets. Winter tyres should be used whenever the average ambient temperatures drop below 7degsC. Therefore, swap them over at the end of autumn/beginning of winter and swap back when temperatures start warming up again in spring.
Your summer tyres will then obviously last longer (in calendar terms).
controlz said:
Interesting - I've searched the forum's plenty in regards to V12's and tyres and all I found was talk of the P Zero and nothing on the Michelin's. Perhaps I'm looking in the wrong place... Are these a lot better?
Miles better (no pun intended) in ALL areas of performance, wet and dry. If you don't want to search this forum, just look at Tirerack.com for their comparisons and user ratings/comments for ultra performance tires. P Zeros are yesterday's news.controlz said:
I live on the outskirts of London, and drive a short 4-mile commute to work everyday. Unfortunately come September, the road's going to be wet most of the time so a) my tyres won't warm up, and b) it will be cold!
Are winters okay even in dry conditions - E.g. can still use the car fine on 100% dry roads and sunny spells during the winter months?
I too drive into London daily. I have no issues with the Corsas from April through to early November. At the moment, they are warm enough to grip hard after a couple of miles, as evidence on my secret little central London fast bit of the trip. Are winters okay even in dry conditions - E.g. can still use the car fine on 100% dry roads and sunny spells during the winter months?
The Sottozeros are absolutely fine on sunny winter days. They don't turn in as well as the Corsas and they feel less precise, but I have done some very enjoyable winter driving on the best roads in the Dales on my winter tyres. Nothing though beats driving those roads on warmed-up Corsas on a summer afternoon, when you can hear the tyre peeling itself from the tarmac as it rolls.
DB9VolanteDriver said:
Miles better (no pun intended) in ALL areas of performance, wet and dry. If you don't want to search this forum, just look at Tirerack.com for their comparisons and user ratings/comments for ultra performance tires. P Zeros are yesterday's news.
Thanks - I'm going to look into these. I'm not very clued up on tyres and can see that on websites like camskill they have the same tyres suitable for specific cars. Am I just looking at regular Michelin Pilot Sport?BravoV8V said:
Of course. They are winter tyres, not racing wets.
Winter tyres should be used whenever the average ambient temperatures drop below 7degsC. Therefore, swap them over at the end of autumn/beginning of winter and swap back when temperatures start warming up again in spring.
Your summer tyres will then obviously last longer (in calendar terms).
^^^ Exactly. Winter tires are for .... winter! A lot of people still think they are only for snow, but the tread design and siping for snow and ice traction is only half the story - it is the rubber compound used in these tires that gives them superior performance to warm weather tires even on dry roads at cold temperatures.Winter tyres should be used whenever the average ambient temperatures drop below 7degsC. Therefore, swap them over at the end of autumn/beginning of winter and swap back when temperatures start warming up again in spring.
Your summer tyres will then obviously last longer (in calendar terms).
quench said:
^^^ Exactly. Winter tires are for .... winter! A lot of people still think they are only for snow, but the tread design and siping for snow and ice traction is only half the story - it is the rubber compound used in these tires that gives them superior performance to warm weather tires even on dry roads at cold temperatures.
I'm tempted to just buy some winters now and put them on! I won't drive the car in the dry anywhere near it's maximum so winters will be fine and protect me on rainy days!PM me if you want my Corsa's!
controlz said:
I'm tempted to just buy some winters now and put them on! I won't drive the car in the dry anywhere near it's maximum so winters will be fine and protect me on rainy days!
PM me if you want my Corsa's!
Winters are designed to work at their optimum at 7 degrees or below! at good summer temps they will be very squirmy as the compound is not designed to work at higher temps.PM me if you want my Corsa's!
Best bet is to purchase a second set of wheels and fit the Sottozeros to them for November to March and use the corsas during the summer months.
When you are spending £90K on a car what is another couple of grand to have the best of both worlds.
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