Why do we upgrade our Astons - discuss please
Discussion
A bit of a monster read, but here goes...
A few thoughts and observations following on from Luna's 'Move from 4.3 to 4.7 thread'. There is a contrast of different 'camps' that owners fall within, each with values on and about ownership and whilst each camp is fine for the individual, their choice for whatever camp they fall in should not be the authoritative word for everyone. My position is clearer than most, I am an habitual modifier of cars... Nor merely tinkering, I usually end up changing out the entire engine, brakes, suspension, you name it, if better exists then nothing is too good for my P&J. No standard car is acceptable to me because I always know there is better out there as a manufacturer has to build to a price, that's the nature of the car business. Obviously you'd struggle to get better kit on a Pagani or Bugatti, but AML are not in that league.
My feelings tell me that some owners intend to get out in a short time (anecdotally they are heavily financed); these are the guys who service at the main dealer just to get that stamp to (hopefully) keep the value and are scared to death should anything devalue the car in their ownership. They don't consider they own the car, they consider they just drive it.
Then there are owners who just want the maximum fun from the car (anecdotally, they bought cash or have little owing, they actually 'own' the car) which often means more power and the upgrade route. For every one that doesn't want to modify (can't really afford to or they wouldn't use the power anyway?) there are ten that do, yet it is often the 'one's' voice on PH that is heard spouting supposed negatives of upgrading.
I have heard tell of the amount of people that call Bamford Rose and say they only bought because they knew BR could modify the car, or those that call and say unless we can modify they will sell after very short ownership period because performance-wise the car doesn't measure up to expectations. For those that have been on here a while, there have been quite a few owners who threw in the towel as the cars just weren't quick enough after their 911s or big Mercs. This doesn't need to happen now.
The owners that don't use the power of the car (you can only do 70mph you know, etc), don't advocate upgrades or indeed are negative about upgrading have to realise that there are folk out there that do want maximum performance; some people, including me, 'need' to modify to get the wallop the car doesn't have as standard and don't love the car past the brand image or the looks enough to keep it because it doesn't measure up performance wise... if BR had not come along, I would be driving something like a (modified) 575 now and would be crying into my cornflakes at the shame of that. It isn't about outright power or speed, it is about the ability of the car reflecting the owners needs, and the upgrades are about driveability and point-to-point pace, not the traffic light grand prix. Each upgrade I have had, whether it be the switchable suspension, 6 pot brakes or the exhaust system, every one of them on their own had the ability to make the car vastly superior to standard and much more capable. But together, they are simply astonishing; with one useable eye, the inability to tell left from right and no actual driving skill on the part of the pilot, my early DB9 Volante can keep pace with the fastest cars the factory can churn out. And it's massively enjoyable driving something so capable, so surefooted and so, so quick. Sure a really decent driver could do the same by absolutely ragging it everywhere but we don't all have Scalextric models of ourselves, a bookful of trackday Countach stories or albums of photos in various mountain passes looking suspiciously clean
For new sales and for keeping the 4.3 second-hand prices alive, the upgrade path is very important because without it the guys who want better performance will be put off and both pre-loved and new cars would only appeal to a an ever-decreasing circle of brand lovers... One opinion is that when you modify you just get used to a new datum and then you always chase the next until that becomes a datum and so on... I disagree. If this is true why is there an M-Sport division for BMW and AMG for Merc? Lotus 'Sport'. Jaguar 'R'. Where is AMs equivalent? There isn't one of these for AML and instead of BR upgrades being seen as an addictive hobby I see them creating the halo of an M-division or an AMG that folk want in the long-term. Some cars just need that 'bit more' and face it, whilst not slow, the 4.3 is one of them.
An example... my old 4200 GT Maserati was a decent cruiser but felt like a German saloon. Bespoke exhaust system, sports cats and an ECU freed up about 40-50bhp. Lowered it on bespoke springs, beefed up the brakes, bigger wheels with a wider track, suddenly it was an absolute weapon, had the legs of almost anything and the handling to match. The 50bhp was enough, not too much but it enabled the car to keep pace with far more exotic things without spoiling the car. My '81 Esprit has jumped from 210 to 240bhp, only 30bhp... but what a difference, feels right on the pace of a modern car now as it has a bigger brakes and new suspension too. My DB9; 450 to 520bhp with the suspension, brakes and chassis bracing to match. Yes, before someone mentions it I am getting a mental engine, but that's just me and I accept that is not normal...
Currently the upgrade route is Bamford Rose for anybody wanting more than brand image and looks. They are to Gaydon Aston Martins what AMG was to Mercedes (before they bought them out) or what TVR Power is to Tiv owners. Upgrading can be an enjoyable pursuit, sometimes just hunting for numbers and pub bragging rights and in extreme cases an obsession or addictive hobby. In most cases though it simply gives you the performance level you wanted but could not get previously and for that owners of upgraded cars should not be castigated or told that their cars have suddenly become unsaleable. Don't want a modified or upgraded car? Fine, don't buy one, they are lots of cars out there for everyone. But really, a few years down the line, when there is a choice of a 4.3 Aston with 380bhp and a 4.3 Aston beside it with 420bhp with little to choose between them... Well it'd be a short decision making progress for me
If anyone bothers to read that... well, discsuss
A few thoughts and observations following on from Luna's 'Move from 4.3 to 4.7 thread'. There is a contrast of different 'camps' that owners fall within, each with values on and about ownership and whilst each camp is fine for the individual, their choice for whatever camp they fall in should not be the authoritative word for everyone. My position is clearer than most, I am an habitual modifier of cars... Nor merely tinkering, I usually end up changing out the entire engine, brakes, suspension, you name it, if better exists then nothing is too good for my P&J. No standard car is acceptable to me because I always know there is better out there as a manufacturer has to build to a price, that's the nature of the car business. Obviously you'd struggle to get better kit on a Pagani or Bugatti, but AML are not in that league.
My feelings tell me that some owners intend to get out in a short time (anecdotally they are heavily financed); these are the guys who service at the main dealer just to get that stamp to (hopefully) keep the value and are scared to death should anything devalue the car in their ownership. They don't consider they own the car, they consider they just drive it.
Then there are owners who just want the maximum fun from the car (anecdotally, they bought cash or have little owing, they actually 'own' the car) which often means more power and the upgrade route. For every one that doesn't want to modify (can't really afford to or they wouldn't use the power anyway?) there are ten that do, yet it is often the 'one's' voice on PH that is heard spouting supposed negatives of upgrading.
I have heard tell of the amount of people that call Bamford Rose and say they only bought because they knew BR could modify the car, or those that call and say unless we can modify they will sell after very short ownership period because performance-wise the car doesn't measure up to expectations. For those that have been on here a while, there have been quite a few owners who threw in the towel as the cars just weren't quick enough after their 911s or big Mercs. This doesn't need to happen now.
The owners that don't use the power of the car (you can only do 70mph you know, etc), don't advocate upgrades or indeed are negative about upgrading have to realise that there are folk out there that do want maximum performance; some people, including me, 'need' to modify to get the wallop the car doesn't have as standard and don't love the car past the brand image or the looks enough to keep it because it doesn't measure up performance wise... if BR had not come along, I would be driving something like a (modified) 575 now and would be crying into my cornflakes at the shame of that. It isn't about outright power or speed, it is about the ability of the car reflecting the owners needs, and the upgrades are about driveability and point-to-point pace, not the traffic light grand prix. Each upgrade I have had, whether it be the switchable suspension, 6 pot brakes or the exhaust system, every one of them on their own had the ability to make the car vastly superior to standard and much more capable. But together, they are simply astonishing; with one useable eye, the inability to tell left from right and no actual driving skill on the part of the pilot, my early DB9 Volante can keep pace with the fastest cars the factory can churn out. And it's massively enjoyable driving something so capable, so surefooted and so, so quick. Sure a really decent driver could do the same by absolutely ragging it everywhere but we don't all have Scalextric models of ourselves, a bookful of trackday Countach stories or albums of photos in various mountain passes looking suspiciously clean
For new sales and for keeping the 4.3 second-hand prices alive, the upgrade path is very important because without it the guys who want better performance will be put off and both pre-loved and new cars would only appeal to a an ever-decreasing circle of brand lovers... One opinion is that when you modify you just get used to a new datum and then you always chase the next until that becomes a datum and so on... I disagree. If this is true why is there an M-Sport division for BMW and AMG for Merc? Lotus 'Sport'. Jaguar 'R'. Where is AMs equivalent? There isn't one of these for AML and instead of BR upgrades being seen as an addictive hobby I see them creating the halo of an M-division or an AMG that folk want in the long-term. Some cars just need that 'bit more' and face it, whilst not slow, the 4.3 is one of them.
An example... my old 4200 GT Maserati was a decent cruiser but felt like a German saloon. Bespoke exhaust system, sports cats and an ECU freed up about 40-50bhp. Lowered it on bespoke springs, beefed up the brakes, bigger wheels with a wider track, suddenly it was an absolute weapon, had the legs of almost anything and the handling to match. The 50bhp was enough, not too much but it enabled the car to keep pace with far more exotic things without spoiling the car. My '81 Esprit has jumped from 210 to 240bhp, only 30bhp... but what a difference, feels right on the pace of a modern car now as it has a bigger brakes and new suspension too. My DB9; 450 to 520bhp with the suspension, brakes and chassis bracing to match. Yes, before someone mentions it I am getting a mental engine, but that's just me and I accept that is not normal...
Currently the upgrade route is Bamford Rose for anybody wanting more than brand image and looks. They are to Gaydon Aston Martins what AMG was to Mercedes (before they bought them out) or what TVR Power is to Tiv owners. Upgrading can be an enjoyable pursuit, sometimes just hunting for numbers and pub bragging rights and in extreme cases an obsession or addictive hobby. In most cases though it simply gives you the performance level you wanted but could not get previously and for that owners of upgraded cars should not be castigated or told that their cars have suddenly become unsaleable. Don't want a modified or upgraded car? Fine, don't buy one, they are lots of cars out there for everyone. But really, a few years down the line, when there is a choice of a 4.3 Aston with 380bhp and a 4.3 Aston beside it with 420bhp with little to choose between them... Well it'd be a short decision making progress for me
If anyone bothers to read that... well, discsuss
I couldn't agree more Lewis, however, any upgrades to an AM will come at a cost and that is not within everybody's reach. If I was in the position to be able to upgrade at BR, then the proverbial pack of wild horses would struggle to keep me away. Indeed, given my solemn promise to my wife not to "do this" to her again (buy another 'stupid' car that is, nothing more exciting than that), then I will almost certainly upgrade in time. I want to have more from my car, and would be disappointed to be singled out for doing so. Equally I'd be surprised if resale was a problem to a well informed buyer. He'd only need to spend 5 minutes on this forum to be well aware of the BR benefits.
Talking as we are, then, of BR, why is it that AM has no direct comparison to the AMG/M-Sport division? Do we think that they are of the opinion that their performance is graduated such that any desire to improve performance would result in a change of type, rather than filling the gap with a sport version (I know we have the S version, but this still sits behind a BR mod, yes?) This would, I presume, also be an admission by AM that the base model is yet to hit the mark. (Do they care, as I assume they sell what they make?). Is the forthcoming new investment likely to affect this mindset?
Why do we modify? Because we know that the car has more to give, that we as the driver will feel the difference without the man on the street needing to know what's been done, or indeed being able to see it. It's a pursuit of more. It's not needless, it's progression. But it is still the preserve of a man that possesses 2 clear things. The will and the money. I've only got one half at the moment, my wife has the other half.
Talking as we are, then, of BR, why is it that AM has no direct comparison to the AMG/M-Sport division? Do we think that they are of the opinion that their performance is graduated such that any desire to improve performance would result in a change of type, rather than filling the gap with a sport version (I know we have the S version, but this still sits behind a BR mod, yes?) This would, I presume, also be an admission by AM that the base model is yet to hit the mark. (Do they care, as I assume they sell what they make?). Is the forthcoming new investment likely to affect this mindset?
Why do we modify? Because we know that the car has more to give, that we as the driver will feel the difference without the man on the street needing to know what's been done, or indeed being able to see it. It's a pursuit of more. It's not needless, it's progression. But it is still the preserve of a man that possesses 2 clear things. The will and the money. I've only got one half at the moment, my wife has the other half.
My 2p worth. I am a big fan of BR and I am sure I will be availing myself of their upgrades at some stage. However, does the 4.3 need it? Not really, it is plenty fast enough for UK roads. The additional torque and bhp just means I will have to brake a few tenths of a second sooner as I catch up the car in front. But, as Yeti says, there is always the desire to have more and many of us will pursue that regardless of how useable the ultimate power ends up being.
I don't care about faster cars than mine. I don't care about more expensive cars than mine. I do care about how I feel driving my Aston, and I feel great in my 4.3. There are few cars on the road that are as much about the feeling as they are about the performance. The Aston hits all the buttons whatever the model.
I don't care about faster cars than mine. I don't care about more expensive cars than mine. I do care about how I feel driving my Aston, and I feel great in my 4.3. There are few cars on the road that are as much about the feeling as they are about the performance. The Aston hits all the buttons whatever the model.
Having retired from 20yrs of motorcycling to move to an V8V, I can understand the upgrade mentality completely. I owned 15 bikes over this period and whether it was adding the carbon Terminis to my Ducati 900SS, or sending my Fireblade to PDQ in Reading for an exhaust and tune, or investing (I use the word loosely) in virtually every single option from the Touratech catalogue on my series of GS Adventures, I have never owned a standard bike. I wanted my bike to be exclusively my bike and that made it feel special.
Having thoroughly enjoyed my 2010 V8V since March, I do read this forum with interest, reveling in enthusiasts comments about the surgeons at Bamford Rose. I have even driven behind Yeti's DB9S creation and marveled as the gods of war have been unleashed. It felt as if I was standing still and resembled the warp drive scene from Star Trek. I have tried to calm myself when reading of RobGTs V8S upgrades and worse of all, drooled at the BR V8V manifold and exhaust pictures on their site. It is a work of art.
Just my thoughts.
Jeremy
Having thoroughly enjoyed my 2010 V8V since March, I do read this forum with interest, reveling in enthusiasts comments about the surgeons at Bamford Rose. I have even driven behind Yeti's DB9S creation and marveled as the gods of war have been unleashed. It felt as if I was standing still and resembled the warp drive scene from Star Trek. I have tried to calm myself when reading of RobGTs V8S upgrades and worse of all, drooled at the BR V8V manifold and exhaust pictures on their site. It is a work of art.
Just my thoughts.
Jeremy
Jeremy, Yeti, I'm with you all the way. I did it with bikes, women and my home. We need to add a bit here and there , bolt things on. It's as though we are stamping our mark on things. Molly is without doubt a different woman since I first met her.
Seriously though I have weighed up the financial pros and cons of what I have had done and what I intend BR will do to my S. I will have an even more awesome car for much less cost than buying a new model . The nice thing is that it will be fairly unique to me. Quite why I feel I need more power and even better handling is beside the point when it already is far more capable than ever I will be!
Seriously though I have weighed up the financial pros and cons of what I have had done and what I intend BR will do to my S. I will have an even more awesome car for much less cost than buying a new model . The nice thing is that it will be fairly unique to me. Quite why I feel I need more power and even better handling is beside the point when it already is far more capable than ever I will be!
I'll be honest, I couldn't be arsed reading that massive essay, but from the other posts I get the jist it's something about modding Astons.
I'm too scared to, it will just limit the market on resale (even though I have no plans to sell), add no value on to the car (decrease it if anything, whilst costing money for the mods), and I'd always have the feeling of 'what if something went wrong' in the back of my mind.
I'd much rather just upgrade to the new DB9
I'm too scared to, it will just limit the market on resale (even though I have no plans to sell), add no value on to the car (decrease it if anything, whilst costing money for the mods), and I'd always have the feeling of 'what if something went wrong' in the back of my mind.
I'd much rather just upgrade to the new DB9
yeti said:
If anyone bothers to read that... well, discsuss
Are you the same Yeti and I have come to love so much on this forum 
?You seem so serious, no alcohol last night
? Couldn't sleep 
? You're normally calling people a t
t, or telling them their car is crap.I feel inclined to agree with you about mods, personally i like my internal mods as 470 hp is fine by me, the damn thing wheel spins everytime I pull away anyway, i'm planning a retrim in the new year (now very soon), so it's a huge mod with loads of changes, I (Hopefully) don't intend selling, so I want what I want for the car, seeing that I spend so much time in it. Funny enough it will be black, but a different shade of black.
Try and get some sleep, lets hopefully get the old yeti back ........
I have seriously looked at mods for my 4.3, however, i have also looked at my driving abilities, and, to be fair, the ability f the standard 4.3, far outweighs my driving skill, if i cant get the most out of 380 bhp, what would be the point of 420 bhp?.
So with this in mind, i decided to take a different route......keep the Aston Standard, invest the "tuning money" in a 165 bhp Caterham, to use on track days and Sunday morning blats, i now believe i have got the best of both worlds, the Caterham stretches and tests my abilities ( without doing 140) and the Aston is as original, and being one of the first 1000 made, thats the way I like it.
Just my twopenneth.
So with this in mind, i decided to take a different route......keep the Aston Standard, invest the "tuning money" in a 165 bhp Caterham, to use on track days and Sunday morning blats, i now believe i have got the best of both worlds, the Caterham stretches and tests my abilities ( without doing 140) and the Aston is as original, and being one of the first 1000 made, thats the way I like it.
Just my twopenneth.
I am with Lewis on this one.
Not bothered about future resale and I really don't get this argument. If this is a concern why did you buy a premium brand sports car in the first place - it was never going to be an investment was it?
For me it is about having a bespoke car tailored to my individual requirements using the best quality engineered solution available. Anyone who has had the opportunity to speak to the guys from BR will quickly realise they are not your usual aftermarket tuning outfit. It certainly adds to the AM experience in my opinion and will keep me with the brand for the forseeable future. I may even get a second one to add to the stable
Not bothered about future resale and I really don't get this argument. If this is a concern why did you buy a premium brand sports car in the first place - it was never going to be an investment was it?
For me it is about having a bespoke car tailored to my individual requirements using the best quality engineered solution available. Anyone who has had the opportunity to speak to the guys from BR will quickly realise they are not your usual aftermarket tuning outfit. It certainly adds to the AM experience in my opinion and will keep me with the brand for the forseeable future. I may even get a second one to add to the stable
A different angle, but I find best performance upgrade £ for £ and satisfaction is yourself....
http://donpalmer.co.uk/
A lot of the lotus guys hold Andy Walsh in high regard for coaching
http://www.carlimits.com/
http://donpalmer.co.uk/
A lot of the lotus guys hold Andy Walsh in high regard for coaching
http://www.carlimits.com/
MaverickV12 said:
yeti said:
If anyone bothers to read that... well, discsuss
Are you the same Yeti and I have come to love so much on this forum ?You seem so serious, no alcohol last night
? Couldn't sleep ? You're normally calling people a tt, or telling them their car is crap.Edited by MollyGTi on Saturday 29th December 09:33
robgt said:
Jeremy, Yeti, I'm with you all the way. I did it with bikes, women and my home. We need to add a bit here and there , bolt things on. It's as though we are stamping our mark on things. Molly is without doubt a different woman since I first met her
I can see this is not going to be one of Rob's better days - now where is he? GrrrrrGassing Station | Aston Martin | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff