Waterless coolant
Discussion
So what do we think about the use of below?
From what I read most of the crtisism is the price but considering what we all have to live with just to fill a tank to get down the road, the cost is really not an issue.
If it stops my water pump from rusting away over time and has no adverse effects then I wonder why you would use just water and antifreeze.
www.evanscoolants.co.uk/all-automotive-products.html
Thoughts, experience, information?
From what I read most of the crtisism is the price but considering what we all have to live with just to fill a tank to get down the road, the cost is really not an issue.
If it stops my water pump from rusting away over time and has no adverse effects then I wonder why you would use just water and antifreeze.
www.evanscoolants.co.uk/all-automotive-products.html
Thoughts, experience, information?
Edited by CraigV12V on Saturday 29th December 16:28
No hand on experience, but all I know is that Jay Leno's one of their customers
http://www.jaylenosgarage.com/extras/car-care/wate...
http://www.jaylenosgarage.com/extras/car-care/wate...
They are claiming their product has a higher boiling point than the coolant mix in a car so does not over heat.
They also claim hot spots turn traditional coolant to steam causing negine failures, not exactly true
Coolant systems are pressurised to increase the boiling point, maintain efficient heat transfer and prevent vapourisation.
Their angle is they prevent over heating but IME a car overheating is usually due to mechanical faults not the heat transfer fluid
They also talk about traditional coolant absorbing free oxygen as it cools. Under normal operation a sealed system could not introduce any free oxygen
As for pump cavitation on a car
In essence they are playing on worries of overheating and corrosion, it may reduce both in the long term but there is no technical evidence on their cleverly written site
I also favour periodic flushes and checks of coolant (no different to the reasons for an oil change)
They also claim hot spots turn traditional coolant to steam causing negine failures, not exactly true
Coolant systems are pressurised to increase the boiling point, maintain efficient heat transfer and prevent vapourisation.
Their angle is they prevent over heating but IME a car overheating is usually due to mechanical faults not the heat transfer fluid
They also talk about traditional coolant absorbing free oxygen as it cools. Under normal operation a sealed system could not introduce any free oxygen
As for pump cavitation on a car
In essence they are playing on worries of overheating and corrosion, it may reduce both in the long term but there is no technical evidence on their cleverly written site
I also favour periodic flushes and checks of coolant (no different to the reasons for an oil change)
There was a long thread about this on the AMOC site about 12 months ago. Nothing is ever as straight forward as it seems.
The pump has to be upgraded, I presume due to the stuff being denser than water. At the end of the day distilled water with the correct
corrosion inhibitors and anti freeze is hard to beat for it's heat transfer properties.
The pump has to be upgraded, I presume due to the stuff being denser than water. At the end of the day distilled water with the correct
corrosion inhibitors and anti freeze is hard to beat for it's heat transfer properties.
Can't access the site but reading Mikey's post there is a whiff of snake oil about it.
However, if it's waterless then it has the chance of having both a higher boiling point (which you'll never reach under pressure in a functioning cooling system anyway) and a lower freezing point which you can easily reach in bad weather.
Plenty of stuff that does both of those things and all good quality coolants are emulsions of one sort or another.
However, if it's waterless then it has the chance of having both a higher boiling point (which you'll never reach under pressure in a functioning cooling system anyway) and a lower freezing point which you can easily reach in bad weather.
Plenty of stuff that does both of those things and all good quality coolants are emulsions of one sort or another.
Boiling point is 180 and freezing is -40.
Apparently it not toxic so won't kill cats, dogs or kids if drunk.
As it does not boil as cars should never get over 180, the system runs under no much pressure which some see as advantageous (less pressure on hoses radiator etc).
Try copying and pasting this for link to Evans site. http://goo.gl/HGveq
Aston Engineering Ltd, Lonsdale Place, Derby, DE22 3LP are a seller of the product. www.astonengineering.co.uk I have dropped them an email see what they say.
Bit of a concern if the pump needs upgrading.
No need for flushes which are to get the crud out of the system that falls out of suspension along with the debris of corrosion and rust, so you would only be flushing for flushing sake as Evans says it will out live the car!
Major adverse comments I can find (most users seem content) is the rise in engine temp of a few degrees and corresponding rise in oil temp. Not sure if a few degrees matters much to an Aston. Problem seems to stem from stuff being thicker than water and antifreeze thus it will struggle to circulate as quickly and it does not conduct heat as well as water. However it can absorb more heat before boiling and thus less likelihood of higher temperatures being achieved are far less than with water which once boiling becomes useless.
general consensus; added corrosion protection and the max heat protection under extreme combined with the added longevity of hoses and gaskets not under pressure all in one package the waterless coolant provides.
Would be good to hear from someone who uses the stuff. Someone must if Aston Engineering sell it.
5 Litres is £63.95 plus postage from Amazon!
Some more links;
http://www.pistonheads.co.uk/gassing/topic.asp?h=0...
http://forums.aaca.org/f169/waterless-coolant-expe...
http://www.rx8club.com/tech-garage-22/waterless-co...
http://pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&f...
http://www.clubcobra.com/forums/all-cobra-talk/105...
http://www.clubcobra.com/forums/shop-talk/54472-ev...
http://www.amoc.org/component/option,com_wrapper/I...
Apparently it not toxic so won't kill cats, dogs or kids if drunk.
As it does not boil as cars should never get over 180, the system runs under no much pressure which some see as advantageous (less pressure on hoses radiator etc).
Try copying and pasting this for link to Evans site. http://goo.gl/HGveq
Aston Engineering Ltd, Lonsdale Place, Derby, DE22 3LP are a seller of the product. www.astonengineering.co.uk I have dropped them an email see what they say.
Bit of a concern if the pump needs upgrading.
No need for flushes which are to get the crud out of the system that falls out of suspension along with the debris of corrosion and rust, so you would only be flushing for flushing sake as Evans says it will out live the car!
Major adverse comments I can find (most users seem content) is the rise in engine temp of a few degrees and corresponding rise in oil temp. Not sure if a few degrees matters much to an Aston. Problem seems to stem from stuff being thicker than water and antifreeze thus it will struggle to circulate as quickly and it does not conduct heat as well as water. However it can absorb more heat before boiling and thus less likelihood of higher temperatures being achieved are far less than with water which once boiling becomes useless.
general consensus; added corrosion protection and the max heat protection under extreme combined with the added longevity of hoses and gaskets not under pressure all in one package the waterless coolant provides.
Would be good to hear from someone who uses the stuff. Someone must if Aston Engineering sell it.
5 Litres is £63.95 plus postage from Amazon!
Some more links;
http://www.pistonheads.co.uk/gassing/topic.asp?h=0...
http://forums.aaca.org/f169/waterless-coolant-expe...
http://www.rx8club.com/tech-garage-22/waterless-co...
http://pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&f...
http://www.clubcobra.com/forums/all-cobra-talk/105...
http://www.clubcobra.com/forums/shop-talk/54472-ev...
http://www.amoc.org/component/option,com_wrapper/I...
CraigV12V said:
the system runs under no much pressure which some see as advantageous (less pressure on hoses radiator etc).
5 Litres is £63.95 plus postage from Amazon!
)So you are looking at 20 litres allowing for a bit of was wastage/flushing = bloody expensive!
I am no engineer but I think we have our wires crossed. Of course there is the pressure caused by the pump which remains the same I guess for both systems. But with water if you take the cap of the rad you release the pressure casued by the water trying to boil and the water which is over 100 degrees instantly boils and spwews out everywhere. I think normally the system is pressurised when up to temp to about 15 lbs (per sq inch?) whereas because the Evans stuff does not boil until 180 degrees, when you take off the rad cap there is a slight pop and then nothing. Many even remove any form of pressure release to the rad cap so it runs at zero pressure.
From what I read many like the idea that a hose springing a leak will not spray water everywhere due to the pressure but simply drip and a temp bit of tape can stem the flow until you get to a garage.
From what I read many like the idea that a hose springing a leak will not spray water everywhere due to the pressure but simply drip and a temp bit of tape can stem the flow until you get to a garage.
A few quotes from the other threads that sum it up for me
It is flamable though, and very slippery if spilt (and it doesn't evaporate)
However the claim of preventing overheating is a bit misleading as overheating comes from many problems ie pump failure blocked pipes or inlet or loss of fluid.
Then there's the cost of the stuff
It is flamable though, and very slippery if spilt (and it doesn't evaporate)
However the claim of preventing overheating is a bit misleading as overheating comes from many problems ie pump failure blocked pipes or inlet or loss of fluid.
Then there's the cost of the stuff
CraigV12V said:
I am no engineer but I think we have our wires crossed. Of course there is the pressure caused by the pump which remains the same I guess for both systems. But with water if you take the cap of the rad you release the pressure casued by the water trying to boil and the water which is over 100 degrees instantly boils and spwews out everywhere. I think normally the system is pressurised when up to temp to about 15 lbs (per sq inch?) whereas because the Evans stuff does not boil until 180 degrees, when you take off the rad cap there is a slight pop and then nothing. Many even remove any form of pressure release to the rad cap so it runs at zero pressure.
From what I read many like the idea that a hose springing a leak will not spray water everywhere due to the pressure but simply drip and a temp bit of tape can stem the flow until you get to a garage.
When i did physics at school (and failed to get o level) im sure i was taught that that heat causes expansion, therefore, the expansion of this fluid must cause a rise in pressure in a sealed system. I could be wrong though.From what I read many like the idea that a hose springing a leak will not spray water everywhere due to the pressure but simply drip and a temp bit of tape can stem the flow until you get to a garage.
If it ain't broke....
AFAIK: The propylene glycol is designed to stop the problem of localized boiling at spots around a cylinder, but it is arguable that water would boil at such points in a sealed pressurized system anyway. Also, the heat capacity of propylene glycol is much less than that of water so the system runs hotter, and the thermal conductivity is less so will be less efficient at cooling.
AFAIK: The propylene glycol is designed to stop the problem of localized boiling at spots around a cylinder, but it is arguable that water would boil at such points in a sealed pressurized system anyway. Also, the heat capacity of propylene glycol is much less than that of water so the system runs hotter, and the thermal conductivity is less so will be less efficient at cooling.
Johnfrancis said:
When i did physics at school (and failed to get o level) im sure i was taught that that heat causes expansion, therefore, the expansion of this fluid must cause a rise in pressure in a sealed system. I could be wrong though.
If you read those that have used this stuff they repeatedly say that you take off the rad cap and there in just a small pop.. Sure the fluid expands a little but it does not boil and thus create high pressure from the liquid turning into gas.Yep that is true because it never hits its boiling point
With a water based system it is under pressure so boils at a higher temp so remains liquid in the sealed system
as soon as that system depressurises the water boils hence the steam from leaks rad caps and overheating
With our business we deal with cooling from a very similar process (just no petrol involved) with MUCH higher energy levels
Best practise is closed circuit water/glycol radiator systems
Sometime a closed loop oil system is used but it is expensive and shares many of the traits of this coolant
With a water based system it is under pressure so boils at a higher temp so remains liquid in the sealed system
as soon as that system depressurises the water boils hence the steam from leaks rad caps and overheating
With our business we deal with cooling from a very similar process (just no petrol involved) with MUCH higher energy levels
Best practise is closed circuit water/glycol radiator systems
Sometime a closed loop oil system is used but it is expensive and shares many of the traits of this coolant
I agree with what is said, this product isn't really solving a problem is it?
Furthermore, in a modern vehicle with electronic engine temperature management etc, the engine shouldn't be running a few degrees warmer, as the ECU will regulate/control the fans accordingly to reduce engine temps back.
Chris
Furthermore, in a modern vehicle with electronic engine temperature management etc, the engine shouldn't be running a few degrees warmer, as the ECU will regulate/control the fans accordingly to reduce engine temps back.
Chris
I was interested in this stuff originally as I intend to keep my car for years to come and I wondered whether in 10 years time whether I would be being told how the inside of my engine was badly corroded, or my water pump had seized up or its regularly overheating due the internals being full of gunk. I was wondering if any of the those with older cars may of had problems that this stuff if used over long periods would have solved.
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