conundrum/opportunity/nightmare involving a DB7 V12 Vantage
Discussion
trevalvole said:
If you used them, or any other auction service, you'd need to think about setting a reserve. At ACA, it seems that where they quote a range of estimates for the lot, it means that the lot has a reserve and this seems to be set at the lower estimate.
Trevalvole thank you. Great advice. 
Thinking about this a bit more, I think it would be worthwhile seeing if you can get it running by spending a small amount. My reasoning for this is that if I was considering buying it, I can phone up an Aston dealer's parts department or Autoglass and find out how much a new bumper or windscreen would be. However, if the engine isn't running, then I probably don't know whether it is going to cost me £500 to fix, or require a new engine at, say, £20k and that uncertainty will significantly affect the price you get.
I'm not in the motor trade and don't know about Astons and am happy to be corrected by those who do, but I can't think it would be too difficult to find out (or even fix) what the problem is with the engine. Given its ancestry, may be somebody who has worked on Jaguar V6s or Ford Mondeo V6s would be able to do it. Also, with this background, perhaps a generic code reader would tell the user what was wrong?
I'm not in the motor trade and don't know about Astons and am happy to be corrected by those who do, but I can't think it would be too difficult to find out (or even fix) what the problem is with the engine. Given its ancestry, may be somebody who has worked on Jaguar V6s or Ford Mondeo V6s would be able to do it. Also, with this background, perhaps a generic code reader would tell the user what was wrong?
trevalvole said:
Thinking about this a bit more, I think it would be worthwhile seeing if you can get it running by spending a small amount. My reasoning for this is that if I was considering buying it, I can phone up an Aston dealer's parts department or Autoglass and find out how much a new bumper or windscreen would be. However, if the engine isn't running, then I probably don't know whether it is going to cost me £500 to fix, or require a new engine at, say, £20k and that uncertainty will significantly affect the price you get.
I'm not in the motor trade and don't know about Astons and am happy to be corrected by those who do, but I can't think it would be too difficult to find out (or even fix) what the problem is with the engine. Given its ancestry, may be somebody who has worked on Jaguar V6s or Ford Mondeo V6s would be able to do it. Also, with this background, perhaps a generic code reader would tell the user what was wrong?
Trevalvole thank you - you make an excellent point. One more link in the sorry tale is that when the PoPo finally notified me that I could have the car back they said I had to collect it within 24 hours or be charged storage at £24 a day. I had nowhere to put it in its current condition, and from the photos and a chat with a friend we imagined it might be relatively quick and easy to put back together. So - long story short I had it taken to a friend of a friend who has a garage, hoping he could get it sellable for a reasonable price. Unfortunately it was in a worse state that we thought and he gave me a scary estimate. Which I couldn't afford. ANYWAY - I got the car back and put it into paid storage, and slunk off to lick my wounds. Oh - and the chap with the garage never gave me any diagnostic info whatsoever. A very nasty experience. I'm not in the motor trade and don't know about Astons and am happy to be corrected by those who do, but I can't think it would be too difficult to find out (or even fix) what the problem is with the engine. Given its ancestry, may be somebody who has worked on Jaguar V6s or Ford Mondeo V6s would be able to do it. Also, with this background, perhaps a generic code reader would tell the user what was wrong?
Sorry to add yet another sad piece to the story ... I am cursed - cursed I tell you!
Anyway - yes, I think your suggestion is a very good one. Thank you again
Edited by morgaana on Wednesday 23 March 11:56
Was thinking of putting you in touch with a specialist local to you, who may have customers looking for a DB7.
That way they could do the work and you won’t get treated as badly as you have been.
You would also get someone who knows the cars being able to fix it a lot more efficiently.
So - where are you based ?!
That way they could do the work and you won’t get treated as badly as you have been.
You would also get someone who knows the cars being able to fix it a lot more efficiently.
So - where are you based ?!
A DB7 Vantage in average condition with 75,000 miles (MOT history check) is today worth around £20-£25k.
If the front wings are repairable then they can be bolted on and fettled by a body shop. If they are beyond repair you can get them on eBay from £300 each. Front bumper from £600 upwards. Windscreen from £1000 up. Plus missing parts - do not underestimate the cost of trim parts - and possibly fuel pumps if they are kaput. Plus the cost of a front end respray assuming the rest can be machine polished and is not damaged. And the dreaded labour.....
The photos make it look much worse than it probably actually is.
You could try Carandclassic Auctions, part of Car and Classic Magazine, where there are a lot of DB7 Vantages for sale, set your reserve and see what happens.
https://www.carandclassic.com/auctions
If the front wings are repairable then they can be bolted on and fettled by a body shop. If they are beyond repair you can get them on eBay from £300 each. Front bumper from £600 upwards. Windscreen from £1000 up. Plus missing parts - do not underestimate the cost of trim parts - and possibly fuel pumps if they are kaput. Plus the cost of a front end respray assuming the rest can be machine polished and is not damaged. And the dreaded labour.....
The photos make it look much worse than it probably actually is.
You could try Carandclassic Auctions, part of Car and Classic Magazine, where there are a lot of DB7 Vantages for sale, set your reserve and see what happens.
https://www.carandclassic.com/auctions
JonnyCJ said:
Was thinking of putting you in touch with a specialist local to you, who may have customers looking for a DB7.
That way they could do the work and you won’t get treated as badly as you have been.
You would also get someone who knows the cars being able to fix it a lot more efficiently.
So - where are you based ?!
Oh I see! That is a very kind offer indeed JonnyCJ. I'm not quite ready for that yet though. I think I'll retain my comfy comfy obscurity a bit longer while I mull the various excellent ideas being posted here. I really appreciate the offer though! That way they could do the work and you won’t get treated as badly as you have been.
You would also get someone who knows the cars being able to fix it a lot more efficiently.
So - where are you based ?!
N7GTX said:
A DB7 Vantage in average condition with 75,000 miles (MOT history check) is today worth around £20-£25k.
If the front wings are repairable then they can be bolted on and fettled by a body shop. If they are beyond repair you can get them on eBay from £300 each. Front bumper from £600 upwards. Windscreen from £1000 up. Plus missing parts - do not underestimate the cost of trim parts - and possibly fuel pumps if they are kaput. Plus the cost of a front end respray assuming the rest can be machine polished and is not damaged. And the dreaded labour.....
The photos make it look much worse than it probably actually is.
You could try Carandclassic Auctions, part of Car and Classic Magazine, where there are a lot of DB7 Vantages for sale, set your reserve and see what happens.
https://www.carandclassic.com/auctions
Thank you N7GTX - that's very interesting. I think those body panels are retrievable - although they will need rubbing down and spraying as the garage that bought the car decided to take them off and begin sanding them. Sigh. Windscreen - definitely - totally unusable. The windscreen pillars are in a terrible state for some reason - that's a fair bit of work for someone. Fuel pumps - the chap who looked the car over indicated that one or both may indeed be kaput. But a friend says he thinks that's unlikely - he thinks that someone may have disconnected the fuel pump fuse/s? Beats me. Thank you very much for your observations - very helpful! If the front wings are repairable then they can be bolted on and fettled by a body shop. If they are beyond repair you can get them on eBay from £300 each. Front bumper from £600 upwards. Windscreen from £1000 up. Plus missing parts - do not underestimate the cost of trim parts - and possibly fuel pumps if they are kaput. Plus the cost of a front end respray assuming the rest can be machine polished and is not damaged. And the dreaded labour.....
The photos make it look much worse than it probably actually is.
You could try Carandclassic Auctions, part of Car and Classic Magazine, where there are a lot of DB7 Vantages for sale, set your reserve and see what happens.
https://www.carandclassic.com/auctions
morgaana said:
N7GTX said:
You could try Carandclassic Auctions, part of Car and Classic Magazine, where there are a lot of DB7 Vantages for sale, set your reserve and see what happens.
https://www.carandclassic.com/auctions
Thank you N7GTX - that's very interesting. I think those body panels are retrievable - although they will need rubbing down and spraying as the garage that bought the car decided to take them off and begin sanding them. Sigh. Windscreen - definitely - totally unusable. The windscreen pillars are in a terrible state for some reason - that's a fair bit of work for someone. Fuel pumps - the chap who looked the car over indicated that one or both may indeed be kaput. But a friend says he thinks that's unlikely - he thinks that someone may have disconnected the fuel pump fuse/s? Beats me. Thank you very much for your observations - very helpful! https://www.carandclassic.com/auctions
eBay - buyer doesn't have to make any financial commitment before bidding and you hand the car over to them in person.
Collecting Cars, probably Car and Classic etc. - buyer does have to make a financial commitment before bidding, but you still hand the car over to them and they may argue that it isn't as described and want some money back. My recollection of a discussion on here about Collecting Cars is that their T&Cs effectively say "we just introduce the buyer to the seller, anything else is nothing to do with us".
ACA and other traditional auction houses - buyer does have to make a financial commitment before bidding, car is collected by the buyer from the auction house, not from you. If the buyer decides for whatever reason to say the car isn't as described, they have to speak to the auction house first, and I suspect the auction house's most common response is "It is sold as seen, goodbye".
Obviously you would need to check the T&Cs of any auction service that you intend using to ensure you get the service you are looking for.
trevalvole said:
Noting your previously stated wish to not have to deal with nasty people, my take on the different types of auction is as follows:
eBay - buyer doesn't have to make any financial commitment before bidding and you hand the car over to them in person.
Collecting Cars, probably Car and Classic etc. - buyer does have to make a financial commitment before bidding, but you still hand the car over to them and they may argue that it isn't as described and want some money back. My recollection of a discussion on here about Collecting Cars is that their T&Cs effectively say "we just introduce the buyer to the seller, anything else is nothing to do with us".
ACA and other traditional auction houses - buyer does have to make a financial commitment before bidding, car is collected by the buyer from the auction house, not from you. If the buyer decides for whatever reason to say the car isn't as described, they have to speak to the auction house first, and I suspect the auction house's most common response is "It is sold as seen, goodbye".
Obviously you would need to check the T&Cs of any auction service that you intend using to ensure you get the service you are looking for.
Trevalvole thank you that's really interesting and helpful eBay - buyer doesn't have to make any financial commitment before bidding and you hand the car over to them in person.
Collecting Cars, probably Car and Classic etc. - buyer does have to make a financial commitment before bidding, but you still hand the car over to them and they may argue that it isn't as described and want some money back. My recollection of a discussion on here about Collecting Cars is that their T&Cs effectively say "we just introduce the buyer to the seller, anything else is nothing to do with us".
ACA and other traditional auction houses - buyer does have to make a financial commitment before bidding, car is collected by the buyer from the auction house, not from you. If the buyer decides for whatever reason to say the car isn't as described, they have to speak to the auction house first, and I suspect the auction house's most common response is "It is sold as seen, goodbye".
Obviously you would need to check the T&Cs of any auction service that you intend using to ensure you get the service you are looking for.
This is all totally new to me so any and all wisdom is gold! ... and very much appreciated Maybe speak to Matthewsons car auctions? As in ‘Bangers & Cash’ on TV but they are a regular classic car auction house. Derek there knows his Astons and knows who is buying them so tries to drum up interest.
https://www.mathewsons.co.uk/
No affiliation etc but I have both bought and sold through them and both transactions were easy.
https://www.mathewsons.co.uk/
No affiliation etc but I have both bought and sold through them and both transactions were easy.
Do you mind to share a little on the diagnosis info you have to get it going again, appreciating you may or may not trust that source any more?
It sounds like you’re leaning towards moving it on, so the options become pretty simply.
1. Disposal as-is, irrespective of channel, I think just means minimum return as most buyers would just assume worse case.
2. Spending a bit to get a better diagnosis at least validates your options e.g. if it is too gone, or helps you get to a better selling price
3. Take pot luck with some of the alternate rescue channels mentioned here.
For me 2 is the answer. These cars are neither complex nor sufficiently rare to warrant super specialist input. Someone competent for sure, and as others reflect, I think this is a case of looking worse than it is. It may even make you want it back again! Good luck with it all.
It sounds like you’re leaning towards moving it on, so the options become pretty simply.
1. Disposal as-is, irrespective of channel, I think just means minimum return as most buyers would just assume worse case.
2. Spending a bit to get a better diagnosis at least validates your options e.g. if it is too gone, or helps you get to a better selling price
3. Take pot luck with some of the alternate rescue channels mentioned here.
For me 2 is the answer. These cars are neither complex nor sufficiently rare to warrant super specialist input. Someone competent for sure, and as others reflect, I think this is a case of looking worse than it is. It may even make you want it back again! Good luck with it all.
Manners79 said:
Maybe speak to Matthewsons car auctions? As in ‘Bangers & Cash’ on TV but they are a regular classic car auction house. Derek there knows his Astons and knows who is buying them so tries to drum up interest.
https://www.mathewsons.co.uk/
No affiliation etc but I have both bought and sold through them and both transactions were easy.
Thank you Manners - I'll definitely check them out https://www.mathewsons.co.uk/
No affiliation etc but I have both bought and sold through them and both transactions were easy.
mabbott said:
Do you mind to share a little on the diagnosis info you have to get it going again, appreciating you may or may not trust that source any more?
It sounds like you’re leaning towards moving it on, so the options become pretty simply.
1. Disposal as-is, irrespective of channel, I think just means minimum return as most buyers would just assume worse case.
2. Spending a bit to get a better diagnosis at least validates your options e.g. if it is too gone, or helps you get to a better selling price
3. Take pot luck with some of the alternate rescue channels mentioned here.
For me 2 is the answer. These cars are neither complex nor sufficiently rare to warrant super specialist input. Someone competent for sure, and as others reflect, I think this is a case of looking worse than it is. It may even make you want it back again! Good luck with it all.
Mabbott thank you I love your analysis - you've stated clearly the impression I was foggily starting to get to! It sounds like you’re leaning towards moving it on, so the options become pretty simply.
1. Disposal as-is, irrespective of channel, I think just means minimum return as most buyers would just assume worse case.
2. Spending a bit to get a better diagnosis at least validates your options e.g. if it is too gone, or helps you get to a better selling price
3. Take pot luck with some of the alternate rescue channels mentioned here.
For me 2 is the answer. These cars are neither complex nor sufficiently rare to warrant super specialist input. Someone competent for sure, and as others reflect, I think this is a case of looking worse than it is. It may even make you want it back again! Good luck with it all.
The chap who looked at the car - we'll call him CLC - put in a fresh battery and tried to start the car. It wouldn't start. He thought that the fuel pump/s were ruined by having been left standing for 3 years with fuel in them. I've no idea if that makes sense. A friend of mine says he leaves cars standing for years with no fuel pump damage.
Another idea offered by someone is that something in the computer has been switched off or has switched itself off thereby effectively immobilising the car. And that if that's the case it might necessitate the intervention of an actual Aston Garage. Costly.
As far as I know the engine wasn't touched by the various people who have had it 'in their care'.
I've been advised to look at the fuse box and take photos to see if the fuel pump fuses have been disconnected. I've identified that there are 5 separate fuse boxes in the vehicle
Luckily the one with the fuel pump fuses is in the boot - lucky because I literally can't lift the bonnet by myself! I'm afraid that's all I know right now. Thanks again very much appreciated
I think you are being given some poor advice by the garage here. With a good/new battery in the car and you operate the key fob, does the central locking work? And does the red immobiliser warning light on the dash go out? If the red light does not go out then there is an immobiliser issue. If it does then next check is the fuel cut-off switch. Its just under the dash by the passenger door hinges, a small black square plastic unit with a rubber top. Simply press the rubber down to ensure it is in the 'on' position.
If the fuel pumps still do not run - you should hear them buzz for a couple of seconds when you switch the ignition on - check the fuses in the fuse box in the boot. Sometimes if a car is laid up for a length of time an owner may remove the fuses. This is to allow the engine to be turned over until good oil pressure builds up before starting to minimise engine wear. If they are okay then the relays need to be checked. Easiest way is to remove one then fit a jumper lead in place. If the pump now runs the relay is faulty. Check the other one as well. If the pumps still do not run with jumper leads then they have probably seized up.
I have no idea of what skills you possess to do this yourself but if not a good recommended garage that does car electrics will diagnose this quite quickly. Or a decent mobile technician.
If the fuel pumps still do not run - you should hear them buzz for a couple of seconds when you switch the ignition on - check the fuses in the fuse box in the boot. Sometimes if a car is laid up for a length of time an owner may remove the fuses. This is to allow the engine to be turned over until good oil pressure builds up before starting to minimise engine wear. If they are okay then the relays need to be checked. Easiest way is to remove one then fit a jumper lead in place. If the pump now runs the relay is faulty. Check the other one as well. If the pumps still do not run with jumper leads then they have probably seized up.
I have no idea of what skills you possess to do this yourself but if not a good recommended garage that does car electrics will diagnose this quite quickly. Or a decent mobile technician.
Hi Morgaana and all. I share N7GTXs view here. I don’t believe there is anything a competent generalist could not address within a few hours here. It sounds some kind of electrical gremlin, which typically requires nothing more than a thorough and methodic approach if not to diagnose but fix too. From memory, the ECUs are Ford EEC IV or V*, so nothing complex inside them that would create as described.
Asterisk. I was sponsored by Ford through university, one of my gap year placements was at AML Bloxham, finalizing the code for the then new V12 Vantage. amongst other things I think I flashed probably the first 100 or so production cars in the summer of 1999…. Happy days.
Asterisk. I was sponsored by Ford through university, one of my gap year placements was at AML Bloxham, finalizing the code for the then new V12 Vantage. amongst other things I think I flashed probably the first 100 or so production cars in the summer of 1999…. Happy days.
N7GTX said:
I think you are being given some poor advice by the garage here. With a good/new battery in the car and you operate the key fob, does the central locking work? And does the red immobiliser warning light on the dash go out? If the red light does not go out then there is an immobiliser issue. If it does then next check is the fuel cut-off switch. Its just under the dash by the passenger door hinges, a small black square plastic unit with a rubber top. Simply press the rubber down to ensure it is in the 'on' position.
If the fuel pumps still do not run - you should hear them buzz for a couple of seconds when you switch the ignition on - check the fuses in the fuse box in the boot. Sometimes if a car is laid up for a length of time an owner may remove the fuses. This is to allow the engine to be turned over until good oil pressure builds up before starting to minimise engine wear. If they are okay then the relays need to be checked. Easiest way is to remove one then fit a jumper lead in place. If the pump now runs the relay is faulty. Check the other one as well. If the pumps still do not run with jumper leads then they have probably seized up.
I have no idea of what skills you possess to do this yourself but if not a good recommended garage that does car electrics will diagnose this quite quickly. Or a decent mobile technician.
N7GTX thank you for that amazingly detailed information! Really very kind of you to share your knowledge so generously If the fuel pumps still do not run - you should hear them buzz for a couple of seconds when you switch the ignition on - check the fuses in the fuse box in the boot. Sometimes if a car is laid up for a length of time an owner may remove the fuses. This is to allow the engine to be turned over until good oil pressure builds up before starting to minimise engine wear. If they are okay then the relays need to be checked. Easiest way is to remove one then fit a jumper lead in place. If the pump now runs the relay is faulty. Check the other one as well. If the pumps still do not run with jumper leads then they have probably seized up.
I have no idea of what skills you possess to do this yourself but if not a good recommended garage that does car electrics will diagnose this quite quickly. Or a decent mobile technician.
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