Bye, for now... V12V to 12C...
Discussion
After two and a half years and more than 17,000 miles of very rewarding ownership, time has come to move on from AM ownership.
I waved goodbye to my Mako Blue V12V this morning. No regrets but a deep satisfying feeling of having owned a truly amazing and fantastic sportscar. The sound, the seats, the finish quality and the entertaining Corsa Tires combine with the mighty 6l V12 has made every single outing very special...
So, why move on some might say !
Well, I felt like I wanted something even a bit more special and even more driver focused. So, I will be picking up a 5k miles 2012 McLaren 12C at the end of next week. It has a LOT to live up to !
I also wanted to echo some of the recent popular threads on selling privately or through/to a dealer.
It is weird. When I was not selling, I received loads of interest but when I actually put out the advert, it became very quiet (except for all the specialist dealers !) !
The car is in super condition but I guess the potential small saving buying privately does not warrant the extra piece of mind that the dealer provides. There will be soon a very lucky owner I am sure !
I would like to thank (again...) Matt and Gavin at AM Grange Brentwood. They have been really great, provided outstanding service and a very worthwhile way of parting company with my car. I can only recommend them if you are looking to sale, or buy.
And finally, for some of you who have this very special limited edition carbon fiber key case, then rest assured there will be no more as I have no way to check they work now !!!!!
All the best.
MB1
I waved goodbye to my Mako Blue V12V this morning. No regrets but a deep satisfying feeling of having owned a truly amazing and fantastic sportscar. The sound, the seats, the finish quality and the entertaining Corsa Tires combine with the mighty 6l V12 has made every single outing very special...
So, why move on some might say !
Well, I felt like I wanted something even a bit more special and even more driver focused. So, I will be picking up a 5k miles 2012 McLaren 12C at the end of next week. It has a LOT to live up to !
I also wanted to echo some of the recent popular threads on selling privately or through/to a dealer.
It is weird. When I was not selling, I received loads of interest but when I actually put out the advert, it became very quiet (except for all the specialist dealers !) !
The car is in super condition but I guess the potential small saving buying privately does not warrant the extra piece of mind that the dealer provides. There will be soon a very lucky owner I am sure !
I would like to thank (again...) Matt and Gavin at AM Grange Brentwood. They have been really great, provided outstanding service and a very worthwhile way of parting company with my car. I can only recommend them if you are looking to sale, or buy.
And finally, for some of you who have this very special limited edition carbon fiber key case, then rest assured there will be no more as I have no way to check they work now !!!!!
All the best.
MB1
paddy328 said:
What colour mclaren are you going for?
It's the dark blue car from McLaren Birmigham. They are adding a sports exhaust and a few additional carbon fiber bits next week before i take delivery on the weekend.I'll make sure to post a few pictures when I take it home.
12C and V12V are very different characters and yes, if i could, i would have kept both, but sometimes hard decisions have to be made !
avinalarf said:
I have admired the McClaren,rather fancy the volcano orange,funnily enough it's not a colour I would think to choose for an Aston,seems to suit the McClaren.
Bottom line is I would be very reluctant to not own an Aston but AM had better up their game for the new range.
Very strong competition now in terms of performance,fuel economy and styling.
New AM range of cars coming in 2 years time. Plenty of time to enjoy something else before coming back (if Merc has not messed things up....).Bottom line is I would be very reluctant to not own an Aston but AM had better up their game for the new range.
Very strong competition now in terms of performance,fuel economy and styling.
Edited by avinalarf on Friday 12th September 10:03
The Vanquish is also a fantastic car but it is not hard core enough, the paddle shift is not sporty enough and unfortunately the windows glass is so thick that the driver is the only one not enjoying the absolutely fantastic sound. Shame they dont do a hard core version (I guess that version is called V12VS but i could not bring myself to buy the same car !)
My favorite colour for the 12C was volcano red. Nice deep dark metal shine to it. But as I use the car everyday, I needed a less "in your face" colour ! And as you might have guessed I like blue.......
JohnPM said:
Coincidentally Autocar asked themselves the same question today and came down in favour of the Aston, albeit a V12VS. http://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/new-cars/new-ver...
I saw that article a couple of weeks ago, before deciding to make the switch. I am obviously not in agreement ;-PIn line with what Chris says, buying a sportscar is about having fun and the emotions you create while driving it. Does not matter if it is cheaper or more expensive.
The V12V is a truly fantastic car but to me, after 2.5 years, does not feel as special as the 12C. And the 12C is incredibly fast and the chassis is unbelievable. Plus the doors, the whole experience appeals to me like being more exclusive and more fun.
Also, from my perspective, moving from a V12V, spending another 50k on a V12VS does not make any sense. Where spending it on a 12C, sort of !
Chris14 said:
You'll love the 12C, it's ability to cover ground is truly amazing. I'm not sure I'll ever forget my last drive in it, 120 miles across country at truly wacky speeds. I climbed out of the car elated yet slightly frightened by the flouting of the law....it always reminded me of riding super bikes when I was younger, hugely addictive yet very naughty...Enjoy! It's your turn
Thanks ! I will sure do by starting with a journey back home of 200 miles :-)6 sleeps to go :->
After 1week ownership and 500 miles with the 12C, I thought I should give you guys my initial impressions on the car and how it compares to my late V12V.
Performance:
The 12C is in a league of its own. The chassis is exceptional and the amount of grip phenomenal even comparing to Corsa on a sunny day. Acceleration is mind blowing and leave behind my previous Gallardo, V12V or even Noble 3R... The ride is surprisingly more comfortable than the V12V.
Gearbox:
The paddleshift is ok. Way better than Lambo's old system. In traffic, it is still not perfect but at least in normal shift mode there is little jerkiness and it is actually pretty smooth. A lot smoother than the 458 and one of the reasons I did not like the Ferrari.
Noise:
The sound is not as good as the V12V. The V12 was like an opera ! The 12C with sports exhaust is more like a raging angry monster. On start, the sound is very good and louder than the V12 and I like it a lot. At low speed revs, it is not very melodious and sounds more like a truck from the inside. At high revs though, the sound is pitched higher and coupled with the acceleration is very rewarding.
Computer and entertainment system:
The onboard computer and dashboard is very well made and easily readable. A lot of settings available and information at hand.
However, the entertainment and satnav system, called IRIS, is completely useless and very annoying.
It is slow and crashes all the time... Forgets where you are or stops giving guidance. Plug in your iPod/iPhone and... If you are lucky it will play music but it can stop or struggle to change artist....
Then try to do navigation and music and you are in for a frustrating and annoying experience. White noise when switching from one to the other for example.
Sound quality is also nowhere near the B&O in the V12V.
I was told IRIS 1 was poor but it was an understatement. I am getting IRIS 2 fitted next month, which should solver all these little issues.
Build quality:
The 12C is nice and well finished. Can't really fault any of the 2 cars on that front !
Ease of use:
The better ride quality on the 12C is not enough to beat the V12V... Because it is just a bit too low and makes speed bumps a challenge. Later 2013 models have a front end lift but not my 2012 model. The front end is actually ok but they fitted some curved strakes behind the front wheel to manage the airflow under the car. Nice feature on a race car, not a road car as they constantly get caught on the way down !
Comfort:
I absolutely loved the lightweight seats in the V12V and I was dubious of the 12C seats. They are actually a very good compromise between bucket seats and sports seats.
Other things:
The doors are super cool ! I will not get tired of the way they open ! The swipe system works very well once you know how to do it and where the sensor is. Closing the car is also a simple touch next to the air inlet. These little gestures make the whole experience and use of the car smooth and very natural.
The DRS rear wing is also a nice feature.
The 3 settings available for both the chassis and the engine gives the ability to tune the car to your taste or state of mind.
Conclusion:
The overall 12C experience feels a lot more special than the V12V. May be because it is new ! The performance is incredible.
At the end, it feels like an unfair comparison. The 12C is supercar territory with a good level of usability. The V12V is more a strong GT.
If I could I would have both ! But as I have to chose (and cannot really go back now !), well, my heart is now with the 12C.
Happy to answer specific queries -
Some pictures below. Enjoy !
Performance:
The 12C is in a league of its own. The chassis is exceptional and the amount of grip phenomenal even comparing to Corsa on a sunny day. Acceleration is mind blowing and leave behind my previous Gallardo, V12V or even Noble 3R... The ride is surprisingly more comfortable than the V12V.
Gearbox:
The paddleshift is ok. Way better than Lambo's old system. In traffic, it is still not perfect but at least in normal shift mode there is little jerkiness and it is actually pretty smooth. A lot smoother than the 458 and one of the reasons I did not like the Ferrari.
Noise:
The sound is not as good as the V12V. The V12 was like an opera ! The 12C with sports exhaust is more like a raging angry monster. On start, the sound is very good and louder than the V12 and I like it a lot. At low speed revs, it is not very melodious and sounds more like a truck from the inside. At high revs though, the sound is pitched higher and coupled with the acceleration is very rewarding.
Computer and entertainment system:
The onboard computer and dashboard is very well made and easily readable. A lot of settings available and information at hand.
However, the entertainment and satnav system, called IRIS, is completely useless and very annoying.
It is slow and crashes all the time... Forgets where you are or stops giving guidance. Plug in your iPod/iPhone and... If you are lucky it will play music but it can stop or struggle to change artist....
Then try to do navigation and music and you are in for a frustrating and annoying experience. White noise when switching from one to the other for example.
Sound quality is also nowhere near the B&O in the V12V.
I was told IRIS 1 was poor but it was an understatement. I am getting IRIS 2 fitted next month, which should solver all these little issues.
Build quality:
The 12C is nice and well finished. Can't really fault any of the 2 cars on that front !
Ease of use:
The better ride quality on the 12C is not enough to beat the V12V... Because it is just a bit too low and makes speed bumps a challenge. Later 2013 models have a front end lift but not my 2012 model. The front end is actually ok but they fitted some curved strakes behind the front wheel to manage the airflow under the car. Nice feature on a race car, not a road car as they constantly get caught on the way down !
Comfort:
I absolutely loved the lightweight seats in the V12V and I was dubious of the 12C seats. They are actually a very good compromise between bucket seats and sports seats.
Other things:
The doors are super cool ! I will not get tired of the way they open ! The swipe system works very well once you know how to do it and where the sensor is. Closing the car is also a simple touch next to the air inlet. These little gestures make the whole experience and use of the car smooth and very natural.
The DRS rear wing is also a nice feature.
The 3 settings available for both the chassis and the engine gives the ability to tune the car to your taste or state of mind.
Conclusion:
The overall 12C experience feels a lot more special than the V12V. May be because it is new ! The performance is incredible.
At the end, it feels like an unfair comparison. The 12C is supercar territory with a good level of usability. The V12V is more a strong GT.
If I could I would have both ! But as I have to chose (and cannot really go back now !), well, my heart is now with the 12C.
Happy to answer specific queries -
Some pictures below. Enjoy !
Thanks Matt.
Yes, time for an update after 8 months of ownership and 10,000 miles.
When I called the dealer a couple of weeks ago saying that my car was due for service, he could not believe me...
I was surprised at how usable the car is compared to the V12V, hence how I did so many miles over what is the least favourable period of the year.
The V12V is a lot more nervous on the Corsa tyres and that make you think twice before taking it out on a freezing cold morning, but with the 12C no such issue despite the amount of bhp under the right foot. I have actually moved the 12C onto Corsa as well now.
Good Points:
As mentioned, usability and versatility. You can drive the car fast (very fast) but also take it easy and blend in (almost).
I love the cabin, the high sills, the very minimal number of nobs and how the all thing works very efficiently.
Performance is just mesmerising. Get into high revs and the things is just a bullet.
The V12V was very entertaining due to its naughty temper. The 12C is a different beast. It gives the driver another level of entertainment thanks to its shear performance, cornering and braking abilities. One of the road I take every day is made up of long double carriageways separated by roundabouts. The way you can brake very late, with the aerobrake coming out is very satisfying.
Average Points:
The automated gearbox is good but as with every automated box, it can be surprising at times. But I think it is the way it is for every automated gearbox.
I never use the fully automated settings as it is just useless.
I will put the noise in the average section. I like the noise of the car when standing outside or with the window down (as I mentioned before, more akin to an angry animal than the cathedral offered by Astons). Inside, even with the sports exhaust, you really have to rev the car very high to get the kind of sensation you get from a V12V or a Vanquish. Aston always had the edge there.
Bad Points:
I had a few minor issues, which never stopped me using the car and were dealt with by McLaren under warranty: rear lights cracking (upgraded to new units from alternative supplier), front parking sensors going crazy under wet conditions (exposed wire), doors hard to close (adjusted and now much better) and a faulty airbag sensor.
The IRIS 1 was a joke. I had it replaced by the IRIS 2, which solves all the previous issues. It can now do both satnav and music ! I would not recommend a car with IRIS 1 unless it was a weekend car.
There is quite a lot of noise coming from the wheel arches with stones hitting, which somehow is very noticeable.
The worst point for me so far has been... McLaren itself. Not the dealer, but McLaren...
I had two other items to be sorted, involving cracked cosmetic panels: one on the tub sill and one inside the engine bay. The original manufacturer's warranty includes body panels (the extended does not). Still being under the original warranty, I thought it would a straightforward "please can you sort this out". But omg, they have missed an important chapter of customer service. The answer each time was "sorry sir, but a panel like that does not crack, your car is the only one we know of having this fault, so you will have to pay for it". I am sorry but an unstressed panel that I have never touched should not be cracking....
Needless to to say that I did argue and in the end always got it fixed but McLaren should know better and build trust with a fairly new customer base.
The extended warranty is just too expensive, at £3,400 per annum. Especially considering how unwilling they have been under the original warranty cover. Problem is, you do not really have a choice. Nobody else would cover this and it is too much of a risk to take.
Overal, the 12C is a fantastic car. Is it better than the V12V ? Hum, IMHO yes. Do, I miss my V12V. Yes, I do ! But would have the 12C every time over the V12V.
It is funny, there was this thread about Aston not being into the supercar section. And I think it is right. Astons are not supercars, there are special cars. Very special indeed.
I am still thinking of one day adding a new Vanquish to the 12C. As I think the GT aspects and creature comfort and the fabulous noise will complement the 12C very well.
I am also looking forward the new generation of Astons coming up.
And then finally, the Aston forum is thousand times better than the McLaren forum. Interesting and balanced discussions, hence the reason why I am still a daily visitor.
The McLaren forum is littered with either Ferrari lovers, trying to kill the brand for no reason, and McLaren owners that will come up with any unfounded argument to pretend it is the best brand on the planet........ And 3/4 of the threads are about residuals.....
Coming from an Aston, the 12C, with its under-stated look made sense to me. I do not like the 650S looks. I think the 540/570 look much better, but McLaren will need a lot more to compete with Ferrari's 488, both in terms of design and customer care. Aston remains a brand apart. No wonder it is one of the coolest brand on the planet :-) But with a McLaren you do get a similar reaction to Astons on the road. One of respect. Not the aggressiveness you get when driving a Ferrari or Lamborghini.
Now, my car is cleaned, polished and waxed, ready for Le Mans trip on Thursday. I am going there with a friend in his DB9. Cannot wait !
Yes, time for an update after 8 months of ownership and 10,000 miles.
When I called the dealer a couple of weeks ago saying that my car was due for service, he could not believe me...
I was surprised at how usable the car is compared to the V12V, hence how I did so many miles over what is the least favourable period of the year.
The V12V is a lot more nervous on the Corsa tyres and that make you think twice before taking it out on a freezing cold morning, but with the 12C no such issue despite the amount of bhp under the right foot. I have actually moved the 12C onto Corsa as well now.
Good Points:
As mentioned, usability and versatility. You can drive the car fast (very fast) but also take it easy and blend in (almost).
I love the cabin, the high sills, the very minimal number of nobs and how the all thing works very efficiently.
Performance is just mesmerising. Get into high revs and the things is just a bullet.
The V12V was very entertaining due to its naughty temper. The 12C is a different beast. It gives the driver another level of entertainment thanks to its shear performance, cornering and braking abilities. One of the road I take every day is made up of long double carriageways separated by roundabouts. The way you can brake very late, with the aerobrake coming out is very satisfying.
Average Points:
The automated gearbox is good but as with every automated box, it can be surprising at times. But I think it is the way it is for every automated gearbox.
I never use the fully automated settings as it is just useless.
I will put the noise in the average section. I like the noise of the car when standing outside or with the window down (as I mentioned before, more akin to an angry animal than the cathedral offered by Astons). Inside, even with the sports exhaust, you really have to rev the car very high to get the kind of sensation you get from a V12V or a Vanquish. Aston always had the edge there.
Bad Points:
I had a few minor issues, which never stopped me using the car and were dealt with by McLaren under warranty: rear lights cracking (upgraded to new units from alternative supplier), front parking sensors going crazy under wet conditions (exposed wire), doors hard to close (adjusted and now much better) and a faulty airbag sensor.
The IRIS 1 was a joke. I had it replaced by the IRIS 2, which solves all the previous issues. It can now do both satnav and music ! I would not recommend a car with IRIS 1 unless it was a weekend car.
There is quite a lot of noise coming from the wheel arches with stones hitting, which somehow is very noticeable.
The worst point for me so far has been... McLaren itself. Not the dealer, but McLaren...
I had two other items to be sorted, involving cracked cosmetic panels: one on the tub sill and one inside the engine bay. The original manufacturer's warranty includes body panels (the extended does not). Still being under the original warranty, I thought it would a straightforward "please can you sort this out". But omg, they have missed an important chapter of customer service. The answer each time was "sorry sir, but a panel like that does not crack, your car is the only one we know of having this fault, so you will have to pay for it". I am sorry but an unstressed panel that I have never touched should not be cracking....
Needless to to say that I did argue and in the end always got it fixed but McLaren should know better and build trust with a fairly new customer base.
The extended warranty is just too expensive, at £3,400 per annum. Especially considering how unwilling they have been under the original warranty cover. Problem is, you do not really have a choice. Nobody else would cover this and it is too much of a risk to take.
Overal, the 12C is a fantastic car. Is it better than the V12V ? Hum, IMHO yes. Do, I miss my V12V. Yes, I do ! But would have the 12C every time over the V12V.
It is funny, there was this thread about Aston not being into the supercar section. And I think it is right. Astons are not supercars, there are special cars. Very special indeed.
I am still thinking of one day adding a new Vanquish to the 12C. As I think the GT aspects and creature comfort and the fabulous noise will complement the 12C very well.
I am also looking forward the new generation of Astons coming up.
And then finally, the Aston forum is thousand times better than the McLaren forum. Interesting and balanced discussions, hence the reason why I am still a daily visitor.
The McLaren forum is littered with either Ferrari lovers, trying to kill the brand for no reason, and McLaren owners that will come up with any unfounded argument to pretend it is the best brand on the planet........ And 3/4 of the threads are about residuals.....
Coming from an Aston, the 12C, with its under-stated look made sense to me. I do not like the 650S looks. I think the 540/570 look much better, but McLaren will need a lot more to compete with Ferrari's 488, both in terms of design and customer care. Aston remains a brand apart. No wonder it is one of the coolest brand on the planet :-) But with a McLaren you do get a similar reaction to Astons on the road. One of respect. Not the aggressiveness you get when driving a Ferrari or Lamborghini.
Now, my car is cleaned, polished and waxed, ready for Le Mans trip on Thursday. I am going there with a friend in his DB9. Cannot wait !
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