Why don't I like Japanese car styling?

[samoht]

Good/bad styling?

[Om]

ingenieur said:

It's not modern v.s. old as for me this has been going on forever. Here's an example.

What is there about that Celica you don't like? Personally I found that generation a little bland/uninspiring, unresolved around the three quarters/too long wheelbase.

[GroundEffect]

TO73074E said:

GroundEffect said:

I'm sure it doesn't take much thinking to work it out:

- Having just an applique in the rear fascia you can control its size/shape more carefully for no cost
- An exhaust and a fascia have quite a lot of positional tolerance therefore the hole would need to be quite oversized to suite, or have more expensive positional control features to have the two match up
- An exhaust moves with powertrain motion so the hole size needs to account for that

At the end of the day, it's down to cost to get the finish they want.

I'll be brief as I don't want to derail the thread. Surely the better solution is to just have a plain bumper? The higher end models seem to have the exhausted routed normally. The chrome surround just highlights there is nothing happening there but this is where an exhaust would normally be! It's even worse when you know the exhaust is a few inches behind it but pointed 90 degrees downwards. "Ooh but it's more premium if you buy the flagship model and the exhaust exits where it is expected". No it's a rubbish design. Sorry but it's stupid, rant over.

A lot of the reasons that you have these creases, other features - and these fake exhaust tips - is that cars are bigger, either through giving the customer more space or through crash regulations, and without them there will be acres of blank bodywork. And designers do not like that. It's morally wrong to them.

I'm not FOR them, but I understand why they exist.

[ingenieur]

GroundEffect said:

TO73074E said:

GroundEffect said:

I'm sure it doesn't take much thinking to work it out:

- Having just an applique in the rear fascia you can control its size/shape more carefully for no cost
- An exhaust and a fascia have quite a lot of positional tolerance therefore the hole would need to be quite oversized to suite, or have more expensive positional control features to have the two match up
- An exhaust moves with powertrain motion so the hole size needs to account for that

At the end of the day, it's down to cost to get the finish they want.

I'll be brief as I don't want to derail the thread. Surely the better solution is to just have a plain bumper? The higher end models seem to have the exhausted routed normally. The chrome surround just highlights there is nothing happening there but this is where an exhaust would normally be! It's even worse when you know the exhaust is a few inches behind it but pointed 90 degrees downwards. "Ooh but it's more premium if you buy the flagship model and the exhaust exits where it is expected". No it's a rubbish design. Sorry but it's stupid, rant over.

A lot of the reasons that you have these creases, other features - and these fake exhaust tips - is that cars are bigger, either through giving the customer more space or through crash regulations, and without them there will be acres of blank bodywork. And designers do not like that. It's morally wrong to them.

I'm not FOR them, but I understand why they exist.

It's weird because the people who happily own a car with that sort of tailpipe fakery don't care. So it offends the more PH-minded folk and does nothing for the people who own the cars. So they could just go back to one of the previous alternatives before they felt like it was necessary. I was following a Hyundai yesterday which had a cut-out in the bumper for a real twin tailpipe on each side of the car. The tail pipe was there on one side, on the other side was an empty hole... they didn't even try to cover it up.

I think it's the Hyundai Tucson

[kurokawa]

samoht said:

Good/bad styling?

one of the best
and from the golden age of japanese motor history
i always found Mazda the "least japanese" among those main Japanese manufacturer

[ingenieur]

samoht said:

Good/bad styling?

I'd guess you think that looks great? But most coupes travelling at speed and photographed well do look just as good as that. Coupe is personally my favourite shape for a car. Without going into too much detail the orange blob on the back bumper and funny added on fog lights, visible towing eye... can't really see much of the car due to the style of the photo but those are a couple of little details I can see. There are excuses available for all of that but you'd be unlikely to see it on a European car.

At the time... not sure if it has dated now as I've not seen one since they were current... the previous RX7 looked great. Dunno how it will have fared over the years.

[TommoAE86]

ingenieur said:

I'd guess you think that looks great? But most coupes travelling at speed and photographed well do look just as good as that. Coupe is personally my favourite shape for a car. Without going into too much detail the orange blob on the back bumper and funny added on fog lights, visible towing eye... can't really see much of the car due to the style of the photo but those are a couple of little details I can see. There are excuses available for all of that but you'd be unlikely to see it on a European car.

At the time... not sure if it has dated now as I've not seen one since they were current... the previous RX7 looked great. Dunno how it will have fared over the years.

I'm not sure where you wanted this thread to go tbh, you've written off a RX-7's styling because of red-tape lights and an aftermarket tow-hook. I'm sure if Mazda wanted to sell this globally they would've styled a solution to cover all lights but instead they (quite rightly) focused on the domestic market. Someone else said it best when describing the RX-7 as being styled "like someone poured a silk over a vehicle chassis"... it's a gorgeous car with the added benefit of not looking bad when the pop-ups are removed.

This thread is going to go the same way as the Japanese interior one where someone was so against Japanese interiors that when asked to provide evidence highlighted a mk1 or 2 Ford Granda as the best ever that Europe could offer Euro interiors haven't go any better since (e.g. Merc i-pad stuck to the dash).

[samoht]

ingenieur said:

I'd guess you think that looks great? But most coupes travelling at speed and photographed well do look just as good as that. Coupe is personally my favourite shape for a car. Without going into too much detail the orange blob on the back bumper and funny added on fog lights, visible towing eye... can't really see much of the car due to the style of the photo but those are a couple of little details I can see. There are excuses available for all of that but you'd be unlikely to see it on a European car.

Note exposed rear towing eye and reflectors embedded in the rear bumper on this 1992 Peugeot

The details you point out are simply standard things on cars of the early 90s, they aren't specific to Japanese cars.

More to the point, they are minor details. When I think of 'styling' I think in terms of first the overall proportion of the car - the positions of the wheels and the glasshouse in relation to each other and the overall length - and then the forms of the car, its volumes. The details are generally relatively insignificant to me. However I've come to appreciate that different people 'see' different things when looking at a car. To me the RX-7 is one of the best-looking affordable cars from any country, but I have no problem with other people having different preferences.

Can you identify what is objectionably 'Japanese' about say the LFA you posted, as distinct from an elegant European car like this much-lauded Fiat Coupe?



Just about the only thing I can think of that distinguishes Japanese cars visually from European ones is that many European cars have a strong family identity. Think of Audi and there's a distinctive set of design cues, same with BMW with the Hofmeister kink. Good Peugeots have a certain consistent look, and a Golf generally looks like a Golf. Perhaps there isn't the same consistency with many Japanese cars, and what you like in a car is that family identity that lets it slot neatly into your expectations?

Apart from that, looking at cars separately, I really can't see much of a gap between Japanese and European cars. In each cases there are better and worse looking examples. I think quite a few Lexuses and Mazdas tend to look good.

Maybe if you post a few cars you do like visually, it would help identify what you're not finding in Japanese cars?

Finally, I find the Lexus LC500 very attractive

[leef44]

I like that it is different from European styling so that we have variety.

Generally I like Japanese styling as long as they don't copy BMW giant grills.

[ingenieur]

samoht said:

ingenieur said:

I'd guess you think that looks great? But most coupes travelling at speed and photographed well do look just as good as that. Coupe is personally my favourite shape for a car. Without going into too much detail the orange blob on the back bumper and funny added on fog lights, visible towing eye... can't really see much of the car due to the style of the photo but those are a couple of little details I can see. There are excuses available for all of that but you'd be unlikely to see it on a European car.

Note exposed rear towing eye and reflectors embedded in the rear bumper on this 1992 Peugeot

The details you point out are simply standard things on cars of the early 90s, they aren't specific to Japanese cars.

More to the point, they are minor details. When I think of 'styling' I think in terms of first the overall proportion of the car - the positions of the wheels and the glasshouse in relation to each other and the overall length - and then the forms of the car, its volumes. The details are generally relatively insignificant to me. However I've come to appreciate that different people 'see' different things when looking at a car. To me the RX-7 is one of the best-looking affordable cars from any country, but I have no problem with other people having different preferences.

Can you identify what is objectionably 'Japanese' about say the LFA you posted, as distinct from an elegant European car like this much-lauded Fiat Coupe?



Just about the only thing I can think of that distinguishes Japanese cars visually from European ones is that many European cars have a strong family identity. Think of Audi and there's a distinctive set of design cues, same with BMW with the Hofmeister kink. Good Peugeots have a certain consistent look, and a Golf generally looks like a Golf. Perhaps there isn't the same consistency with many Japanese cars, and what you like in a car is that family identity that lets it slot neatly into your expectations?

Apart from that, looking at cars separately, I really can't see much of a gap between Japanese and European cars. In each cases there are better and worse looking examples. I think quite a few Lexuses and Mazdas tend to look good.

Maybe if you post a few cars you do like visually, it would help identify what you're not finding in Japanese cars?

Finally, I find the Lexus LC500 very attractive

I take it all back then. Sorry. I'll pretend Japanese cars look as good as European cars and only buy Japanese cars from now on.

[samoht]

You're welcome to your opinion of Japanese automotive styling (and you aren't the only one to feel like that).

However if you're genuinely interested in uncovering why you feel as you do, a part of the scientific process is likely to be throwing out red herrings which can be disproven as distinguishing factors, such as exposed towing eyes.

[Dingu]

ingenieur said:

samoht said:

ingenieur said:

I'd guess you think that looks great? But most coupes travelling at speed and photographed well do look just as good as that. Coupe is personally my favourite shape for a car. Without going into too much detail the orange blob on the back bumper and funny added on fog lights, visible towing eye... can't really see much of the car due to the style of the photo but those are a couple of little details I can see. There are excuses available for all of that but you'd be unlikely to see it on a European car.

Note exposed rear towing eye and reflectors embedded in the rear bumper on this 1992 Peugeot

The details you point out are simply standard things on cars of the early 90s, they aren't specific to Japanese cars.

More to the point, they are minor details. When I think of 'styling' I think in terms of first the overall proportion of the car - the positions of the wheels and the glasshouse in relation to each other and the overall length - and then the forms of the car, its volumes. The details are generally relatively insignificant to me. However I've come to appreciate that different people 'see' different things when looking at a car. To me the RX-7 is one of the best-looking affordable cars from any country, but I have no problem with other people having different preferences.

Can you identify what is objectionably 'Japanese' about say the LFA you posted, as distinct from an elegant European car like this much-lauded Fiat Coupe?



Just about the only thing I can think of that distinguishes Japanese cars visually from European ones is that many European cars have a strong family identity. Think of Audi and there's a distinctive set of design cues, same with BMW with the Hofmeister kink. Good Peugeots have a certain consistent look, and a Golf generally looks like a Golf. Perhaps there isn't the same consistency with many Japanese cars, and what you like in a car is that family identity that lets it slot neatly into your expectations?

Apart from that, looking at cars separately, I really can't see much of a gap between Japanese and European cars. In each cases there are better and worse looking examples. I think quite a few Lexuses and Mazdas tend to look good.

Maybe if you post a few cars you do like visually, it would help identify what you're not finding in Japanese cars?

Finally, I find the Lexus LC500 very attractive

I take it all back then. Sorry. I'll pretend Japanese cars look as good as European cars and only buy Japanese cars from now on.

Barmy. What was the point of the thread then?

[moorx]

Dingu said:

I’m not sure how we can help you on a point of personal taste.

If everything looked like a Golf it would be very dull, and in fact I prefer the Corolla to a Golf in looks. The fact the Coralla is likely better screwed together is an added bonus.

This. It's a good job we don't all like the same things, isn't it? Because I love this Celica:

ingenieur said:

It's not modern v.s. old as for me this has been going on forever. Here's an example.

Hence why I've owned one for the last 10 years.

[leef44]

ingenieur said:

I take it all back then. Sorry. I'll pretend Japanese cars look as good as European cars and only buy Japanese cars from now on.

That's the spirit. I knew you would come round to it soon

[swampy442]

So what European car designs do you like?

Its horses for courses like most things in life, if you dont like it, dont buy it.

[Mercury00]

I'm the same with German cars. I always wonder to myself why they've never moved on from the three box shape. People jizz over the BMW E36, but to me it has no styling. It's literally just a series of rectangles.

[OMITN]

Gundam and Pikachu, I believe.

Random article from a few years ago that explains it a little more: https://www.malaymail.com/amp/news/drive/2016/04/2...

Also James May covered it during his Japan series. Irritating though he is, it’s worth a watch. https://www.amazon.co.uk/James-May-Our-Japan-Seaso...

[Aunty Pasty]

OMITN said:

Gundam and Pikachu, I believe.

Random article from a few years ago that explains it a little more: https://www.malaymail.com/amp/news/drive/2016/04/2...

Also James May covered it during his Japan series. Irritating though he is, it’s worth a watch. https://www.amazon.co.uk/James-May-Our-Japan-Seaso...

That probably explains why recent Toyotas and Lexus designs have overly stylised and aggressive angles and protrusions I guess.

[TommoAE86]

It's purely personal preference, most people here don't like this Crown, however I find the "overstyled" nature really interesting coupled with it being properly Japanese I love it. Something different and interesting.


But then the 3 series competitor from the same year to me looks tragically dull, there's just nothing there and now BMW's are not in any way "ultimate" just further makes me fall asleep I mean what's interesting about it? Different lights and badge and it's any other Euro saloon.

[ingenieur]

TommoAE86 said:

It's purely personal preference, most people here don't like this Crown, however I find the "overstyled" nature really interesting coupled with it being properly Japanese I love it. Something different and interesting.


But then the 3 series competitor from the same year to me looks tragically dull, there's just nothing there and now BMW's are not in any way "ultimate" just further makes me fall asleep I mean what's interesting about it? Different lights and badge and it's any other Euro saloon.

Why as the Toyota Crown got the front of two different cars on one car?