Fraudulent bankers draft
Discussion
At least you have reported it to the police so any innocent purchaser now will be denied title to the car but I guess if its abroad that is no help.
Perhaps a stupid thought but if the bank are negligent then could it be the case that you were not deceived by the buyer at the material time and so be covered under the car insurance for theft. I think suing a bank could involve a case being dragged through the courts for years, they're get lawyers like bevin ashford and deny everything.
Perhaps a stupid thought but if the bank are negligent then could it be the case that you were not deceived by the buyer at the material time and so be covered under the car insurance for theft. I think suing a bank could involve a case being dragged through the courts for years, they're get lawyers like bevin ashford and deny everything.
Ponkyporky said:
banks have the right to return cheque up to 6 months after presentation, although a verifed, bankers draft may well be different. I found this out when a non paying tenant gave me a cheque for 3 months arrears rent, they let it through and a month and a half later returned it and back dated the return to the date it was presented Lloyds it was.
Love to see you take the banks down. The onus should be on them for the system to have security.
What is the way to accept payment for a private sale. I have a M3 to sell as well!
Bankers draft with you present with buyer, Cash is risky (rob you back or pass on duff notes), whats a private sale laddo to do???
I always insist on CHAPs transfer i.e direct transfer in to my account. It costs £25 but is done within 4 hours and there's no mistake or room for fraud...I don't think.
jdh1 said:
I always insist on CHAPs transfer i.e direct transfer in to my account. It costs £25 but is done within 4 hours and there's no mistake or room for fraud...I don't think.
When I pay my staff by automatic transfer, the bank always reminds me that the transaction can be reversed up to the close of business.....
So beware of that one....
bak is obviously fraudulent but my concern is what proof do yo have of the conversation. Can you ask a bank for a letter/note to verify they have checked and verified draft no. XXXXX ?
re. cash, if you are concerned about theft / dodgy notes insist the cash is given to you in a bank (some security) and verified by the cashier and paid straight into your a/c
re. cash, if you are concerned about theft / dodgy notes insist the cash is given to you in a bank (some security) and verified by the cashier and paid straight into your a/c
Ponkyporky said:
What is the way to accept payment for a private sale. I have a M3 to sell as well!
Bankers draft with you present with buyer, Cash is risky (rob you back or pass on duff notes), whats a private sale laddo to do???
I sold my £35k XKR privately last year, was concernend about the monies, so did some digging and as is the case Bankers Drafts are not worth a thing until it is cleared, so don't release a car til it has. (Not going to help you much Red), but the best way to get the cash is a CHAPS Transfer, it is like how they wire the money for mortgages, except that if the payment is requested before midday, you will receive the money in a couple of hours or by close of businesss, GUARANTEED! Cost is £25, I got my money in literally an hour.
Good luck with the case RED.
G
triple7 said:
What is the way to accept payment for a private sale. I have a M3 to sell as well!
Bankers draft with you present with buyer, Cash is risky (rob you back or pass on duff notes), whats a private sale laddo to do???
I sold my £35k XKR privately last year, was concernend about the monies, so did some digging and as is the case Bankers Drafts are not worth a thing until it is cleared, so don't release a car til it has. (Not going to help you much Red), but the best way to get the cash is a CHAPS Transfer, it is like how they wire the money for mortgages, except that if the payment is requested before midday, you will receive the money in a couple of hours or by close of businesss, GUARANTEED! Cost is £25, I got my money in literally an hour.
Good luck with the case RED.
G
I thought the whole point of a draft is that the bank wouldn't issue it unless there were CLEARED funds in the account.
As a result, all a vendor has to do is confirm with the bank that the draft was issued and is genuine.
Whenever I pay for a car with draft I get a copy of my statment from the bank when I pick it up showing the funds were in the account and the withdrawal in he form of a draft.
No way would I hand over a draft and then leave the car with the seller until it clears.
The Dude said:
When I sold one of my previous cars to a private buyer, I rang the issuing bank, took the name of the person I spoke to and asked them to verify that they had issued the draft.
I think that's about as much as you can do.
Also, ask them to bring drivers licence and passport and take photocopies of them both. If they're genuine buyers they won't mind.
I do realise that none of this helps the original poster though.
Red Head said:
The Royal Bank of Scotland draft was taken to his local branch as he has an account at RBS and he asked them to verify the draft which they did, saying it was fine.
The last car I sold, I accepted a Bank Draft. I also rang up the Bank as you did, but I rang the branch that issued the Draft. They verefied that it was genuine (i.e. draft number and who it was issued to and when).
I'm now wondering if even this level of checking is no use?
IIRC from my days at LLoyds when I was a lad 
any answer we gave in such circumstances would have been quoted as "If in our hands and in order it would be paid/unpaid". This was not binding - only an answer given in response to a request for special clearance when the cheque was delivered to the drawee bank was considered binding. However the giving of such answers ceased as a practice some time ago. IMHO I think you are going to struggle if you had not actually delivered the item for payment or collection (i.e. paid it in and sought special clearance). Your first avenue I would suggest would be direct to the Manager at the branch with which you dealt. Failing that your final recourse maybe either through the Banking Ombudsman or the courts. Good Luck.
any answer we gave in such circumstances would have been quoted as "If in our hands and in order it would be paid/unpaid". This was not binding - only an answer given in response to a request for special clearance when the cheque was delivered to the drawee bank was considered binding. However the giving of such answers ceased as a practice some time ago. IMHO I think you are going to struggle if you had not actually delivered the item for payment or collection (i.e. paid it in and sought special clearance). Your first avenue I would suggest would be direct to the Manager at the branch with which you dealt. Failing that your final recourse maybe either through the Banking Ombudsman or the courts. Good Luck. tonto said:
The Royal Bank of Scotland draft was taken to his local branch as he has an account at RBS and he asked them to verify the draft which they did, saying it was fine.
The last car I sold, I accepted a Bank Draft. I also rang up the Bank as you did, but I rang the branch that issued the Draft. They verefied that it was genuine (i.e. draft number and who it was issued to and when).
I'm now wondering if even this level of checking is no use?
There's a difference between going into another branch and someone saying "Yep, that looks like a genuine bankers draft" and actually speaking to the issuing bank with all the details. Get them to fax you a copy of the draft before they even turn up, that way you can take all the time you like to verify it's authenticity without the pressure of them waiting on your doorstep.
I part paid for my M5 with a Bankers Draft & the BMW dealer was more than happy to accept this as payment & release the vehicle. However & here's the catch, a Bankers Draft is only now valid as a sudo cleared payment if it's also presented with the bank receipt for the Draft. So draft plus receipt for the draft from the issuing bank.
I know this is of little use now & i've got my fingers crossed that everything works out for you.
I know this is of little use now & i've got my fingers crossed that everything works out for you.
vee said:
What is the way to accept payment for a private sale. I have a M3 to sell as well!
Bankers draft with you present with buyer, Cash is risky (rob you back or pass on duff notes), whats a private sale laddo to do???
I sold my £35k XKR privately last year, was concernend about the monies, so did some digging and as is the case Bankers Drafts are not worth a thing until it is cleared, so don't release a car til it has. (Not going to help you much Red), but the best way to get the cash is a CHAPS Transfer, it is like how they wire the money for mortgages, except that if the payment is requested before midday, you will receive the money in a couple of hours or by close of businesss, GUARANTEED! Cost is £25, I got my money in literally an hour.
Good luck with the case RED.
G
I thought the whole point of a draft is that the bank wouldn't issue it unless there were CLEARED funds in the account.
As a result, all a vendor has to do is confirm with the bank that the draft was issued and is genuine.
A Bankers Draft is a CHEQUE and can be stopped by the issuer just like any other cheque, be warned.
I do agree about leaving the money without the car, but it all depends on the parties involved. Get a written contract issued for the purchase, just cover all bases in future.
G
triple7 said:
A Bankers Draft is a CHEQUE and can be stopped by the issuer just like any other cheque, be warned.
I thought the point was that it was a cheque issued by the bank rather than an individual, and it could therefore be assumed that the funds were held by the bank? I don't know how this goes wrong, is it that the bank cancels the draft if the payment to them bounces?
It would be interesting how the bank did the check.
My pal recently "sold" his jet ski to someone for £4000, he though, presented the draft to the bank the following morning.
The counter staff said it looked genuine enough, but he asked her to call the issuing branch to be on the safe side.
It was the twenty fifth time that draft number had been used
My pal recently "sold" his jet ski to someone for £4000, he though, presented the draft to the bank the following morning.
The counter staff said it looked genuine enough, but he asked her to call the issuing branch to be on the safe side.
It was the twenty fifth time that draft number had been used
Red Head said:
The Royal Bank of Scotland draft was taken to his local branch as he has an account at RBS and he asked them to verify the draft which they did, saying it was fine.
Hmm...so what's the banks definition of 'it was fine'? Does the person who said that agree that said it was fine?
You have to ask if the draft has been 'given value'.
I do think the bank owes a duty of care to its customers and they ought to have warned that the draft could be returned. I'd write to the financial help pages of your favourite newspaper to see if they'll help, but the bank admitting their part in this is crucial.
Adam B said:
re. cash, if you are concerned about theft / dodgy notes insist the cash is given to you in a bank (some security) and verified by the cashier and paid straight into your a/c
This would seem to be the best way - get the buyer to withdraw the cash from his account, hand it to you and then you pay it straight in. I wonder if you'd have a problem even then if it turned out the buyer was fraudulently using someone else's account?
And there is a bit of a row going on with one bank where a woman was followed from another bank having withdrawn (I think) £6k and was mugged *inside* her own bank. Her complaint is that there wasn't any security - the staff are all safely on the other side of the glass!
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