335d v M3

[Methane Bloke]

Welshbeef said:

sniff diesel said:

Diesels cost more to run - Fifth gear just said so it's got to be true

If your just doing urban then I'd say small petrol will be superior - if your doing M way the Diesel will certainly be better.

Most definitely not.

My sons 1.4 K series MG manages less than 20mpg driving two and miles each way daily.

Four and half mile commute to work, M3 manual, 16MPG, 330d auto 28MPG. Diesels absolutely sip fuel when ticking over compared to a petrol motor. Cruising on the Mway they are also very good. Pedal to the floor they are not so efficient.

[red355]

I think is a recurring thought process for many 335D owners (me included). Its too good at being a grand tourer for its own good. The crux of it is its great to crusie in but not so good to have fun.
I will say fitting some standard tyres
I've tried to be sensible and say well lets keep the denzel for at least 3 years (sept 09 then) to put off those thoughts for a while, but they keep coming back.....then I saw a black Alpina Bi-turbo today and that's started it all off again.

Hopefully the Palmersport trackday next month will help (not)


M3 yep i'd have one

[gizlaroc]

Methane Bloke said:

Welshbeef said:

sniff diesel said:

Diesels cost more to run - Fifth gear just said so it's got to be true

If your just doing urban then I'd say small petrol will be superior - if your doing M way the Diesel will certainly be better.

Most definitely not.

My sons 1.4 K series MG manages less than 20mpg driving two and miles each way daily.

Four and half mile commute to work, M3 manual, 16MPG, 330d auto 28MPG. Diesels absolutely sip fuel when ticking over compared to a petrol motor. Cruising on the Mway they are also very good. Pedal to the floor they are not so efficient.

That 1.4 k is a turbo charged car isn't it?? It's said to be thirsty for its size.

I have just been using a new A4 2.0tdi manual for a week.
This is the efficient detuned 140bhp version.
Over a week and nearly 1000 miles it returned 36mpg, round town it was 28mpg.

In comparison our E320 V6 auto Merc estate returns 30mpg doing the same journeys and round town it only drops to to 25mpg.

Our A6 3.2 Quattro avant tiptronic, will return 29mpg doing the same 1000 miles worth of journeys, and round town is never drops below 23mpg, usually around 24.5 mpg.

I have just done 385 miles from the last tank in the A6 at a cost of £55.50, that is a 3,2 v6, compare that with the tankful on the 2,0tdi manual last week which returned 436 miles and cost me £61 to fill up.

So 13.9p per mile in the truly awful 2.0tdi comapred with 14.4p per mile in the lovely 3.2 V6 Quattro auto.

To me it is a no brainer.

[Welshbeef]

There is something wrong with your 2.0 TDI PD if it can only give you such dire MPG's.

Sorry but the old 1.9 115/130/150bhp would give mid 50's all the time and on a run could break into the 70's MPG.

You say the 140TDi is a detuned model... that is not true the tdi 140 2.0 PD was out first then some time later the 170BHP version came out.

[JNW1]

Welshbeef said:

There is something wrong with your 2.0 TDI PD if it can only give you such dire MPG's.

Sorry but the old 1.9 115/130/150bhp would give mid 50's all the time and on a run could break into the 70's MPG.

You say the 140TDi is a detuned model... that is not true the tdi 140 2.0 PD was out first then some time later the 170BHP version came out.

I agree the mpg figures for the 2.0 TDi look low but equally I think your numbers for the 1.9 PD are a touch on the high side! My ex-wife has a 130bhp Golf GTD and that always stuggled to get over 50mpg unless it was on a long run; mid to high 40's was nearer the mark in mixed driving and I can't see you'd ever get close to 70mpg driving normally!

To answer the original post, I think it's horses for courses. If you're doing lots of long runs on motorways the 335d makes a lot of sense but if you want something that brings a smile to your face the M3 wins hands down IMO.

[gizlaroc]

Welshbeef said:

There is something wrong with your 2.0 TDI PD if it can only give you such dire MPG's.

Sorry but the old 1.9 115/130/150bhp would give mid 50's all the time and on a run could break into the 70's MPG.

You say the 140TDi is a detuned model... that is not true the tdi 140 2.0 PD was out first then some time later the 170BHP version came out.

Seems there are a few owners reporting the same consumption, and it was at 36mpg when I picked the car up as well.

I thought the new one was a common rail, that would explain why it sounded so terrible at idle if it is the old PD engine.

I only got 41mpg from that engine in my A3 and that is a lighter car.

[rm163603]

Are you sure it wasn't a 170bhp A4 as that engine does seem very uneconomical compared to the 140 version in my experience.

the 140 is a common rail not PD as you say.

[pete]

As the very happy owner of a 335d Touring, for me the 335d vs M3 argument came down to one car versus two. I have the luxury of a couple of other cars for fun, so the diesel only had to be fun enough to keep me from going crazy, while being supremely practical and comfy.

The M3 for me had some major disadvantages. At the time, it was hugely expensive, but market forces have fixed that in the intervening 12 months. It still isn't available as an estate, so not especially bike-friendly, but that's a very personal requirement. Lastly the fuel economy is dire and the tank is relatively small - this isn't a cost factor, rather it's the nuisance of stoppping for fuel every 200 miles or so, whereas I can go at least 550 miles in the diesel. Not so important on long trips, when you stop anyway, but it is annoying to have to fill a car up every 2 days in normal pottering and commuting.

In comparison, the diesel addresses all these, but it does feel one dimensional as a driver's car. Yes, it rides well (even with runflats), has beautifully balanced handling, and is ergonomically spot on, but most BMWs can boast those characteristics. The only thing that makes you laugh out loud is the mountain of torque, and the novelty of that quickly wears off.

If you're thinking "there must be something more to it than this", and you don't have another car to give you that something, then I would swap the 335d for an M3.

Pete

[Lost soul]

x5x3 said:

thanks for all the serious posts folks, much appreciated, I can see I am going to have to investigate this further!

I am curious if anyone has put a roof box on one though - as I really could not face the drive to the South of France in the wife's car!

I think you can , im sure my 08 coupe had the fittings for roof rails

[dick_dastardly71]

pete said:

The M3 for me had some major disadvantages. At the time, it was hugely expensive, but market forces have fixed that in the intervening 12 months. It still isn't available as an estate, so not especially bike-friendly, but that's a very personal requirement. Lastly the fuel economy is dire and the tank is relatively small - this isn't a cost factor, rather it's the nuisance of stoppping for fuel every 200 miles or so, whereas I can go at least 550 miles in the diesel. Not so important on long trips, when you stop anyway, but it is annoying to have to fill a car up every 2 days in normal pottering and commuting.

In comparison, the diesel addresses all these, but it does feel one dimensional as a driver's car. Yes, it rides well (even with runflats), has beautifully balanced handling, and is ergonomically spot on, but most BMWs can boast those characteristics. The only thing that makes you laugh out loud is the mountain of torque, and the novelty of that quickly wears off.

Pete

Just wondering why you went for a 335d and not a 335i or even 330i based on these comments? That way you would get the entertainment value of a straight six petrol, with the practicality of an estate.

Also, driven on the same route in the same manner, the 335d will NOT go nearly 3 times as far on a tank of fuel as you suggest.

[squeezebm]

+1 the 335d was crap on gogo juice when being driven hard.

[clived]

This thread reminds me of my experience being owning a 535d. I bought one of the very first 535d's when they came out towards the end of '04. Had it DMS'd - very quick, competent car. However, despite the huge loss I had to take on the chin to do it, I sold it after 10 months as it just wasn't any fun - no soul. Ended up running a B5 RS4 for 2 1/2 years to scratch that itch - I imagine this is the same feeling that many 335d owners have when considering an M3...

[pete]

dick_dastardly71 said:

Just wondering why you went for a 335d and not a 335i or even 330i based on these comments? That way you would get the entertainment value of a straight six petrol, with the practicality of an estate.

I have a TVR Tuscan and a mk1 MX5 in the garage, so I could afford to go for something more polarised. The extra economy of the 335d over the i (driven the same way) makes a pretty big difference to range, plus the combination of a thumping torquey diesel and decent auto make for a very relaxing every-day workhorse when I'm not troubled by throttle response. If I'd wanted something which ticked more boxes, I'd have considered a B3 biturbo or a 335i, but one dimensional actually suited my brief. There's also the residual value benefit of a diesel, right or wrong, they do hold their value (and with a TVR to service, you can't waste too much on depreciation ).

dick_dastardly71 said:

Also, driven on the same route in the same manner, the 335d will NOT go nearly 3 times as far on a tank of fuel as you suggest.

Not 3 times, that's an exaggeration, but double, absolutely if we're comparing a V8 M3 and an ED 335d at normal driving speeds. I accept the difference closes up the harder you drive, otherwise Audi and Peugeot would be winning sportscar races by an even bigger margin. A 335i would be closer, but we're still comparing 25mpg with 38mpg averages. Perhaps the bigger problem is that you wouldn't drive the petrol the same way as the diesel - that six cylinder scream would always be egging you on to the upper end of the rev range!

I speak from experience: admittedly my old 130i had a tiny tank, but I rarely went more than 250 miles between fills; my 335d does 500+ miles every time, and that's driven enthusiastically. You can't blame all of that on an extra 10 litres of tank capacity, it's just significantly more economical when you're driving mainly for transport, not for pleasure.

Cheers,
Pete

Edited by pete on Wednesday 18th February 19:18

[gizlaroc]

I agree, as a second car the 335d is great. God as a second car I went with an Audi for crying out loud!!
But I wanted the comfort of an A6 3.2 over a 530i/535d sport.

I can only get 38mpg from a 335d, that is doing mainly long runs, however doing the same runs I used to get around 33mpg from my 335i, used to get around 430 miles from most tanks.
But it does feel like a big diesel still, so not sure you really get much more from the petrol. Buying new it would have to be a 335d I guess, buying a year or two old then it has to be the 335i as you can get them so much cheaper.

[x5x3]

wow, so I thought everyone would post and say go for the M3, but it seems a lot of other people feel like me, when I swapped from the TVR and motorway rep special, the 330Ci felt like the ultimate compromise - very, very good at everything but not the best in each category. The 335d is a step on from that in most respects (except exhaust note!).

I think given where we are with the economy, my head is going to rule this one and I will wait and see where the prices go.

[JNW1]

x5x3 said:

wow, so I thought everyone would post and say go for the M3, but it seems a lot of other people feel like me, when I swapped from the TVR and motorway rep special, the 330Ci felt like the ultimate compromise - very, very good at everything but not the best in each category. The 335d is a step on from that in most respects (except exhaust note!).

I think given where we are with the economy, my head is going to rule this one and I will wait and see where the prices go.

If you've got access to other interesting toys (like a Tuscan!) then a 335d makes for a fantastic everyday car. However, if you haven't and you're trying to make one car provide both the fun and the practicality that's a different matter and for me an M3 (or a 335i) would win everytime in that scenario!

[MC99]

There's alot to like about the 335d, owners of 535ds often discuss the relative merits to their choice for not buying an M5. Ultimately it's not relative. The costs to run can be made to look similar, but there's a whole host of nuances and needs of an M car that just aren't there in a non M. If you a someone who always wants to explore the potential of a decent road to an extreme or enjoys the occassional trackday the M3 is your choice. Having owned diesels, worked in the car industry, driven alot of metal I wholeheartedly admire diesel go and practicality, but they always miss something when compared to the ultimate petrol powered equivalent of their breed. You've got a good choice in the garage and it sounds like the 335d is more your thing this time round.