BMW Performance Brake kit - arrived!
Discussion
Sport Coupe said:
roofer said:
Sport Coupe said:
it notably helped to liven up the steering feel due to less un-sprung weight.
http://www.pistonheads.com/GASSING/topic.asp?h=0&a...
Your claim it improves steering feel is total cobblers though. 
roofer said:
Sport Coupe said:
roofer said:
Sport Coupe said:
it notably helped to liven up the steering feel due to less un-sprung weight.
http://www.pistonheads.com/GASSING/topic.asp?h=0&a...
Your claim it improves steering feel is total cobblers though. hughjayteens said:
noneedtolift said:
I inquired at BMW about these for my 335i - they said that they don't "do them" for the 335i. I found that very strange - anyone heard otherwise?
http://shop.speedreligion.net/bmw-performance-products-382-c.aspThey do fit, unsure why BMW claim otherwise.
This kit is supplied through BMW UK with the part number for 316i to 325i vehicles. BMW have now announced that they will not be supplying a kit for the 330i, 330d, 335i and 335d, but after test fittings on the these larger engined vehicles, we can confirm that this kit does in fact fit 100% on these cars also and we run this exact kit on our BMW SR3. BMW service departments will not fit this kit to the larger cars as BMW UK say its not for them, but we know different, this kit does fit and it works!
Sport Coupe said:
roofer said:
Sport Coupe said:
roofer said:
Sport Coupe said:
it notably helped to liven up the steering feel due to less un-sprung weight.
http://www.pistonheads.com/GASSING/topic.asp?h=0&a...
Your claim it improves steering feel is total cobblers though. 
Edited by roofer on Thursday 11th December 16:38
roofer said:
You're experience is very....limited.
Your remarks are obtuse...In short – by reducing un-sprung mass the positive effect that it will create is that there will be less mass to accelerate in the bound stroke, thus less mass in the gravitational acceleration on the rebound stroke too. You will also find that most modern springs in their nature are progressively wound, so by reducing un-sprung mass this will allow them to exhibit more headroom to operate at the lower spectrum of their velocity range. The benefit being that the suspension can operate and react more sensitively as there is less kinetic energy to dissipate, meaning that the tyre contact patch will remain at its optimum for longer.
All of these positive effects of reducing un-sprung mass will improve the steering ‘feel’.
Like I thought - you dont have a clue. roofer said:
The tyre contact patch is still the same tyre contact patch, it being in contact with the surface for nano seconds longer will not improve steering feel.
Changing the area/tyre pressure will. Now go and Google something you understand...wally.
I guess it depends how you define steering feel.Changing the area/tyre pressure will. Now go and Google something you understand...wally.
If you think steering feel is 'weight', then it won't change much.
If you think steering feel is the granularity, transparrency and immidiacy of the aligning torques being transmitted through the tyre contact patches to the wheel and then to the steering rack, then it will change a lot.
Even with numerous rubber bushings and a fairly softly setup Peugeot 306 I can tell the difference running 2.5kg lighter wheels through the steering. It just feels less dead, especially when traction is low the steering will kick and jolt much more quickly to the changes in grip.
I guess you could say it's not the steering feel per se that is improved, but the tyre/wheel combos quciker response to the changes in grip/attitude due to lower inertia (both positional and rotational), and so you 'feel' the response quicker through the rack, or even feel it at all.
It really is easy to feel the benefits in ride and performance in the lower gears, so why it isn't valid to say more information/energy gets through to the steering rack, rather than being used up moving/accelerating the wheels masses, is beyond me!
Put a 10kg weight on the floor and get a friend to kick it and see if you can feel anything through the weight.
Now but a 100kg weight on the floor and get a friend to kick it and see if you can feel anything through the weight.
I will guarantee you will feel more of what is going on through the 10kg weight!
Dave
Edited by Mr Whippy on Friday 12th December 16:42
VerySideways said:
1) What was the weight difference between the standard setup and the Performance parts (inc disks, pads and calipers)?
2) Did you feel that the standard setup NEEDED improving? ie, did you ever suffer from brake fade on the road?
3) Any before and after photos..?
Certainly look impressive
Forgot to weigh the stuff but in short:
Original front calipers weighed less, but new discs bigger and lighter so approx same overall i'd guess.
Rear setup similar, approx same weight.
So from four single piston sliding calipers to a pair of six pots and a pair of two pots.
Front discs larger diameter and drilled and grooved (already vented), rear discs comparable to originals, perhaps a little bigger (already vented).
Very hard to experience fade as the BMW has a system which compensates for brake fade by applying additional pressure for you - so if you are getting fade you can't tell at the pedal. You CAN tell by the smell though when you get out of the car.
So, no i had not experienced fade on the road but i had gotten the brakes hot and smelly without trying too hard so it's possible that they would have faded but the car had compensated.
Biggest difference though is control and feel, the new brakes give you so much more control than the old single pots.
Original front calipers weighed less, but new discs bigger and lighter so approx same overall i'd guess.
Rear setup similar, approx same weight.
So from four single piston sliding calipers to a pair of six pots and a pair of two pots.
Front discs larger diameter and drilled and grooved (already vented), rear discs comparable to originals, perhaps a little bigger (already vented).
Very hard to experience fade as the BMW has a system which compensates for brake fade by applying additional pressure for you - so if you are getting fade you can't tell at the pedal. You CAN tell by the smell though when you get out of the car.
So, no i had not experienced fade on the road but i had gotten the brakes hot and smelly without trying too hard so it's possible that they would have faded but the car had compensated.
Biggest difference though is control and feel, the new brakes give you so much more control than the old single pots.
Mr Whippy said:
roofer said:
The tyre contact patch is still the same tyre contact patch, it being in contact with the surface for nano seconds longer will not improve steering feel.
Changing the area/tyre pressure will. Now go and Google something you understand...wally.
I guess it depends how you define steering feel.Changing the area/tyre pressure will. Now go and Google something you understand...wally.
If you think steering feel is 'weight', then it won't change much.
"one of the main advantages of an AP Racing kit I've had fitted previously, it notably helped to liven up the steering feel due to less un-sprung weight."
is fiction, taking into account the weight of his previous calipers, unless the AP's weigh 1/4 of a gramme, they will not have a 'notable' effect on steering feel.
While understanding his eagerness to inform us he had a set of AP's once, i thought it fair to point out that he hasn't got a clue without the assistance of Google.
roofer said:
Mr Whippy said:
roofer said:
The tyre contact patch is still the same tyre contact patch, it being in contact with the surface for nano seconds longer will not improve steering feel.
Changing the area/tyre pressure will. Now go and Google something you understand...wally.
I guess it depends how you define steering feel.Changing the area/tyre pressure will. Now go and Google something you understand...wally.
If you think steering feel is 'weight', then it won't change much.
"one of the main advantages of an AP Racing kit I've had fitted previously, it notably helped to liven up the steering feel due to less un-sprung weight."
is fiction, taking into account the weight of his previous calipers, unless the AP's weigh 1/4 of a gramme, they will not have a 'notable' effect on steering feel.
While understanding his eagerness to inform us he had a set of AP's once, i thought it fair to point out that he hasn't got a clue without the assistance of Google.
Who knows how much the saving was here, with big 18's (are they?) and large tyres, the wheel/tyre combo alone is likely 25kg, + the already large brakes... so I guess a saving of a few kg here might be less noticeable again.
The principle is sound though... but yes we don't want to end up down the folding seats down idea that it makes a noticeable difference to the CofG
Mr Whippy said:
roofer said:
Mr Whippy said:
roofer said:
The tyre contact patch is still the same tyre contact patch, it being in contact with the surface for nano seconds longer will not improve steering feel.
Changing the area/tyre pressure will. Now go and Google something you understand...wally.
I guess it depends how you define steering feel.Changing the area/tyre pressure will. Now go and Google something you understand...wally.
If you think steering feel is 'weight', then it won't change much.
"one of the main advantages of an AP Racing kit I've had fitted previously, it notably helped to liven up the steering feel due to less un-sprung weight."
is fiction, taking into account the weight of his previous calipers, unless the AP's weigh 1/4 of a gramme, they will not have a 'notable' effect on steering feel.
While understanding his eagerness to inform us he had a set of AP's once, i thought it fair to point out that he hasn't got a clue without the assistance of Google.
Who knows how much the saving was here, with big 18's (are they?) and large tyres, the wheel/tyre combo alone is likely 25kg, + the already large brakes... so I guess a saving of a few kg here might be less noticeable again.
The principle is sound though... but yes we don't want to end up down the folding seats down idea that it makes a noticeable difference to the CofG
roofer said:
Mr Whippy said:
roofer said:
The tyre contact patch is still the same tyre contact patch, it being in contact with the surface for nano seconds longer will not improve steering feel.
Changing the area/tyre pressure will. Now go and Google something you understand...wally.
I guess it depends how you define steering feel.Changing the area/tyre pressure will. Now go and Google something you understand...wally.
If you think steering feel is 'weight', then it won't change much.
"one of the main advantages of an AP Racing kit I've had fitted previously, it notably helped to liven up the steering feel due to less un-sprung weight."
is fiction, taking into account the weight of his previous calipers, unless the AP's weigh 1/4 of a gramme, they will not have a 'notable' effect on steering feel.
While understanding his eagerness to inform us he had a set of AP's once, i thought it fair to point out that he hasn't got a clue without the assistance of Google.
- *PH Shocker*** Roofer brings nothing to the table yet again.
FYI the AP's saved 2.7kg per side and their replacements in the form of some billet Alcon water-cooled items which featured titanium pistons saved even more. As I've said before - I speak from experience unlike you, who seems to speak with your head firmly planted up your own 'arris'. The only time I'ver ever used Google was when I typed in Roofer, low and behold this is what I found:
Almost sporty coupe wrote said:
While understanding his eagerness to inform us he had a set of AP's once, i thought it fair to point out that he hasn't got a clue without the assistance of Google.
As earlier. 
While trying to understand your youthful exuberance, you're attempts at humour are as weak as your knowledge. Are we going to hear how much you're 'optional' avus suspension contributed as well? 
On your way Stirling, sit by the phone incase Ron Dennis calls.Edited by roofer on Saturday 20th December 23:06
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