Tramlining E36 325

[bigedd]

Hi , new to this forum, Ive been looking for some information on tramlining due to larger than normal tyres on my 325 e36. I found this on the net would like comments on this and if anyone has done the Mod.

e36 Trammeling problem SOLVED!(281 views) (341 thread views) Message: ( Also has been referred to as tramlining )

The problem: Installing larger wheel and tire combinations up front can lead to a condition where the steering pulls in reaction to variations in the road surface. The wheel can feel heavy, and not return to center readily. The problem was quite pronounced on my 94' 325is after swapping the stock 15" wheels for 17 x 7.5 M-Contours with 235/40-17 Yoko AVS Intermediates all around.

M3's run these size wheels with no adverse effects, so what's different with their front suspension geometry? I checked the alignment specs between a 95' e36 and a 95' M3. Camber and toe are about the same, but Castor is about 3 degrees more positive on the M3. Hmmmm... I also ran across an old post from John Browne (Puget Sound BMW CCA) who suggested, "M3 upper strut bearing will reduce tramlining"

I bought two 95' M3 upper strut bearings (pn# 31 33 2 228 345) from Bavarian Autosport, $102 each. The center of each M3 bearing is offset toward the rear of the car by about 1.3 inches, inducing an additional 3 (approx) degrees positive castor. In other words the top of the strut is leaned back, about the same angle as an M3. Note here: 97' and up M3 upper strut bearings won't work as the centers are offset 1.7 inches back, AND 0.4 inches outboard, adding positive camber. (not desirable).

At the same time I installed Bilstien Sport struts, and Bavarian Autosport springs, 1.3 inches lower all around.

The results: Trammeling effect went away completely! Steering feels great at all speeds. Ride is quite comfortable for commuting, Amazing control, quick turn in, and just a touch of oversteer. High-speed stability is much improved too. Front-end geometry looks great, I can't see or feel any adverse effects.

I am quite sure that the trammeling was not cured by the lower springs and stiffer struts, because of the amount of posts I have come across complaining of the same problem in lowered e36's.



Tom Meyer
Austin, TX
'94 325is
[e-mail]

What you's think is it old news? or should i go ahead and get them?

[bigedd]

Thanks for the posts guys. I'm running 235 40 17s on mine and it was a bit of a shock changing from my stock SE Alloys with it tramlining all over the place, but want so much to keep my MV's look so much better, Have you tried the M3 bushes yourself on a E36 325. seen a set on fleebay for 25 quid (powerflex eccentric wishbone bushes)what is the difference between the stock 325i bush and M3, i mean visually

[bigedd]

Just bought myself a set so will get them fitted and I'll post my results. Just noticed that the wishbones are a different part no. do these need changed as well. hope not.

Edited by bigedd on Saturday 28th February 20:11

[bigedd]

I was comparing the E36 1995 325 and the 95 3.0 M3 not the Evo, reading from your reply, there would be no need to replace the wishbones just install eccentric bushes. thanks for the info it's been great. I'll let you know how I get on.

[bigedd]

8Tech said:

Yes, they will. You fit the left hand one to the right hand side and visa-versa. This is THE way to improve on that front geometry together with the Powerflex eccentric rear wishbone bushes.

8Tech.

I was going to get the top mounts as well, this expands my selection of parts is it ok to get a savaged top mount?

[bigedd]

mikez328 said:

It's usually caused by putting wider/lower profile tyres on the stock wheels. The best engineers in the world designed your wheel width/suspension settings for YOUR car. Mess with it without knowing what you are doing & it will all go horribly wrong. Trust me - I've been there many times in 35 years...

Edited by mikez328 on Monday 2nd March 12:00

The stock wheels are not on the car, it has MV alloys and tyres same as M3, so changing the bushes and top mounts should in theory change the geometry to M3, and thus help the handling of the 325i which was set up for smaller wheels and tyres. I have spent some time looking at different methods to help the tramlining and this seems to be the logical answer I will try it out and if it doesn't work then change back no problem I'm not some stupid boy racer who will thrash the sh*T out of it and wrap it round the nearest lamp post had this car 7 year and wouldn't do anything that was detrimental to the car and myself, like my neck to stay in tacked for a few more years

Edited by bigedd on Monday 2nd March 18:53

[bigedd]

Or maybe a Vice

[bigedd]

8Tech said:

Yes, they will. You fit the left hand one to the right hand side and visa-versa. This is THE way to improve on that front geometry together with the Powerflex eccentric rear wishbone bushes.
8Tech.

Top mounts arrived today, one marked left the other right...... going to ask a stupid question now........ left or right from inside the car or at front looking at engine? and also when you switch the left to the right and vice-versa which way should the arrow point, going to do it tomorrow.

[bigedd]

Thanks,I'm Sorted with the bushes, just these top mounts with them being offset. I know that if your fitting them on the proper side the hole is facing rear, pointing slightly to the outside. If your switching them (left onto right), what direction does the hole point.

[bigedd]

Ok can you tell me if this is correct got the top mounts sitting on the turrets some pictures here

Edited by bigedd on Saturday 7th March 19:17

[bigedd]

TheEnd said:

yep, that's it, to the rear for caster, to the inside for camber.

HI just done the work on the top mounts and the eccentric bushes didnt get the poly ones just the standard see pics, as you will see in the pics the mounts are marked L and R I have put the L(left) to the drivers side and R(right) to the Passengers. Is this correct still not 100% on this, need conformation if you don't mind. and also the top of the strut was rubbing the inside of the turret. thanks again

[bigedd]

should the strut be rubbing the turret?

[bigedd]

Had it out for a spin, didn't feel any big difference with the changes thats been made,but I wasn't pushing it because of the strut was rubbing the turret. It was only scarping it at first but now after a few turns of the steering its went away. its left a small mark inside the turret wall, nothing to drastic give it a touch up of sealer, So I think a will just keep them on. what you think

[bigedd]

Well I'm going to change my mind, just took it round some of the country roads round about lanarkshire and low and behold great round the corners turning in quick sharp and precise ,very small amount of tramlining nothing like what it was, seems I was a little hasty in my comments the problem last night when I took it out, I was only doing 30mph round the village for about 10 mins . Today I was out for about 1hr really enjoyed it, going out tomorrow get some more of it.

[bigedd]

Thanks for all your help TheEnd been Educational you know your stuff now you wont have to have long drawn out post's with people just send them this topic tells all pics n all.

Have you still got the mounts i was pm by caboosemoose he's looking for a set

Edited by bigedd on Thursday 12th March 20:23

[bigedd]

lol Yeah I was thinking about grinding down the metal at the top as well theres not a lot to come of it maybe 5mm 10mm not a lot

Edited by bigedd on Thursday 12th March 23:45

[bigedd]

Done the grinding, top spring seat perfect fit, no rubbing. Took about 7mm of the edge of each strut. Car drives really well I was having a look at cutting a bit of the spring and turn it but you would have to take of about 60>70mm off it, bit much i think

Edited by bigedd on Sunday 15th March 14:30