the bb trackday thread.

[scunnylad]

I would agree with loon that in part it's partly due to the TDO showing a duty of care besides any
insurance issues.

I was at Oulton probably around 12 years ago on a track day run by Jamie Whitham and Paul Shoesmith under
their "speed freaks" company. At the briefing Whit warned us that the grass was not as grippy as the
tarmac,much sniggering ensued.
He then said that a trackdayer at one of their previous events had run off track and braked on the grass
with obvious results.He was taking legal action against speed freaks,the jist of his complaint was that
they had failed to warn him the grass was slippery.
Speed freaks packed in a while later,i don't know if the claim was successful but whit cited this side
of things as one of the reasons why they ceased to trade

[bass gt3]

George29 said:

I would guarantee without sighting laps, there would be a lot more crashes on track days.

Now that's an interesting statement. TD's here have no sightseeing laps other than C or D group occasionally. Those groups have a constant instructor presence regardless with 2 tor 3 instructors out on track for the session.
Yet my experience is we have very few accidents, especially those where you could say that sighting laps would have been a benefit.
We go out, take the time to acclimatise to the bike and conditions and go from there.
The only occasion I can think of was when a particular TDO filled groups with 40+ people in the lower classes. Kyalami was a very stop/go track so there was a lot of bunching with the inevitable lunge passes and panic braking. Ended up with a rex flag every session. TDO's now run maximum of 33 per group so 99 for the day with transponders to move faster or slower riders into the correct group.
But no sighting laps. And no high incident of first session accidents.
I will concede that we don't ride in the rain or damp. Two reasons. 1. It rarely rains 2. Why bother? The track is open all week so just go back when it's dry...

Edited by bass gt3 on Thursday 30th April 09:40

[moanthebairns]

I've been going to loads of new tracks recently.

First lap I use just to see what way it actually goes.

Second the marshal posts.

Third braking markers, turn In points.

Incredibly useful to me. I'd hate to go out with regulars straight on it without having done these Laps to at least give me an idea where it goes.

Question though. If you crash on your sighting Lap does that mean you have to do another 2

On another note, fancied a trip to Knockhill this week. GrEat they have spaces tomorrow

£190 if I book on the day!!!!!!!!!

I love Knockhill but when you have just done a gp track and the best circuit
In the land I can't bring myself to pay that

[sc0tt]

moanthebairns said:

I've been going to loads of new tracks recently.

First lap I use just to see what way it actually goes.

Second the marshal posts.

Third braking markers, turn In points.

Incredibly useful to me. I'd hate to go out with regulars straight on it without having done these Laps to at least give me an idea where it goes.

Question though. If you crash on your sighting Lap does that mean you have to do another 2

On another note, fancied a trip to Knockhill this week. GrEat they have spaces tomorrow

£190 if I book on the day!!!!!!!!!

I love Knockhill but when you have just done a gp track and the best circuit
In the land I can't bring myself to pay that

Fancy Mallory Saturday?

[moanthebairns]

sc0tt said:

moanthebairns said:

I've been going to loads of new tracks recently.

First lap I use just to see what way it actually goes.

Second the marshal posts.

Third braking markers, turn In points.

Incredibly useful to me. I'd hate to go out with regulars straight on it without having done these Laps to at least give me an idea where it goes.

Question though. If you crash on your sighting Lap does that mean you have to do another 2

On another note, fancied a trip to Knockhill this week. GrEat they have spaces tomorrow

£190 if I book on the day!!!!!!!!!

I love Knockhill but when you have just done a gp track and the best circuit
In the land I can't bring myself to pay that

Fancy Mallory Saturday?

where's my photos

[sc0tt]

moanthebairns said:

where's my photos

Obviously where you left your manners

[moanthebairns]

sc0tt said:

moanthebairns said:

where's my photos

Obviously where you left your manners

Did you honestly expect me to answer that seriously. Do you think I'm going to do a ten hour trip for mallory

Or were you just posting again to let everyone know that you have booked a track day.

[sc0tt]

moanthebairns said:

sc0tt said:

moanthebairns said:

where's my photos

Obviously where you left your manners

Did you honestly expect me to answer that seriously. Do you think I'm going to do a ten hour trip for mallory

Or were you just posting again to let everyone know that you have booked a track day.

Wheres my mars bar?

[George29]

bass gt3 said:

Now that's an interesting statement. TD's here have no sightseeing laps other than C or D group occasionally. Those groups have a constant instructor presence regardless with 2 tor 3 instructors out on track for the session.
Yet my experience is we have very few accidents, especially those where you could say that sighting laps would have been a benefit.
We go out, take the time to acclimatise to the bike and conditions and go from there.
The only occasion I can think of was when a particular TDO filled groups with 40+ people in the lower classes. Kyalami was a very stop/go track so there was a lot of bunching with the inevitable lunge passes and panic braking. Ended up with a rex flag every session. TDO's now run maximum of 33 per group so 99 for the day with transponders to move faster or slower riders into the correct group.
But no sighting laps. And no high incident of first session accidents.
I will concede that we don't ride in the rain or damp. Two reasons. 1. It rarely rains 2. Why bother? The track is open all week so just go back when it's dry...

Edited by bass gt3 on Thursday 30th April 09:40

It is probably a lot safer in warm dry conditions. Try it when it's 5 degrees on a damp track. You get people going out going for it straight away, the tracks aren't open every day here and it's not the cheapest so people try to make the most of it.

I really don't see what the issue is, it's 3 steady laps. You already say you do steady laps to get into it, so why is making sure everyone else does such a bad thing?

[George29]

sc0tt said:

Fancy Mallory Saturday?

Best thing about Mallory is the cafe!

[gwm]

moanthebairns said:

Question though. If you crash on your sighting Lap does that mean you have to do another 2

You don't! Which was interesting in my second session as I didn't know where it was going and everyone else did.

[bass gt3]

George29 said:

It is probably a lot safer in warm dry conditions. Try it when it's 5 degrees on a damp track. You get people going out going for it straight away, the tracks aren't open every day here and it's not the cheapest so people try to make the most of it.

I really don't see what the issue is, it's 3 steady laps. You already say you do steady laps to get into it, so why is making sure everyone else does such a bad thing?

George, I'm not saying it's a bad thing. Just a sad reflection that TDO's feel it necessary to cover themselves in such a way. Almost like the caution "Contents may be hot" on a hot apple pie.....
If people don't have the noodle to take the first few laps steady it's somewhat bemusing that they are compelled to hold the organiser responsible for their stupidity. Truth is is suspect people are just looking for redress for the results of their own actions. Any clown knows grass isn't as grippy as tarmac. Running off and crashing happens, but to try and pursue the organisers for not telling you is obscene. Maybe it's a reflection of the blame/claim culture.
If however an event was held with Marshalls and an accident occurred through gross negligence of the organiser or their hired personnel, as happened at Oulton some time back, that's a different matter.
But i guess it's just a sad day when people have to be chaperoned around because they possibly lack the common sense to look after themselves.

[gwm]

MTB at Donnington

[George29]

bass gt3 said:

George, I'm not saying it's a bad thing. Just a sad reflection that TDO's feel it necessary to cover themselves in such a way. Almost like the caution "Contents may be hot" on a hot apple pie.....
If people don't have the noodle to take the first few laps steady it's somewhat bemusing that they are compelled to hold the organiser responsible for their stupidity. Truth is is suspect people are just looking for redress for the results of their own actions. Any clown knows grass isn't as grippy as tarmac. Running off and crashing happens, but to try and pursue the organisers for not telling you is obscene. Maybe it's a reflection of the blame/claim culture.
If however an event was held with Marshalls and an accident occurred through gross negligence of the organiser or their hired personnel, as happened at Oulton some time back, that's a different matter.
But i guess it's just a sad day when people have to be chaperoned around because they possibly lack the common sense to look after themselves.

I agree, but I wouldn't trust a lot of the other people on track days to be sensible, so I think it is a good thing.

[mckeann]

gwm said:

MTB at Donnington

That looks like a sighting lap, so its just as well MTB is keeping his distance

[gwm]

mckeann said:

That looks like a sighting lap, so its just as well MTB is keeping his distance

There were barely any crashes at Donnington actually! Though the Novice group was quite mental at points, as there were clearly guys that booked into there just to get a space. I found it quite fun, but I'd imagine many didn't like being passed on either side at 100 leptons just they are about to turn in.

[fergus]

bass gt3 said:

But i guess it's just a sad day when people have to be chaperoned around because they possibly lack the common sense to look after themselves.

Steve, it's a case of having to cover the lowest common denominator, which considering some of the guys attending typical UK days, is fairly low on the IQ scale. Common sense is lacking for some people, in which case they need to be explicitly told what to do - like a child.

[moanthebairns]

mckeann said:

gwm said:

MTB at Donnington

That looks like a sighting lap, so its just as well MTB is keeping his distance

Actually it might not be. Everytime I passed gwm I waved to the camera or gave the fingers.

I'll write up a report on the days when I get a second still unpacking and doing an oil change. Donnie was the most scared I've been on a track ever.

[LoonR1]

bass gt3 said:

George, I'm not saying it's a bad thing. Just a sad reflection that TDO's feel it necessary to cover themselves in such a way. Almost like the caution "Contents may be hot" on a hot apple pie.....
If people don't have the noodle to take the first few laps steady it's somewhat bemusing that they are compelled to hold the organiser responsible for their stupidity. Truth is is suspect people are just looking for redress for the results of their own actions. Any clown knows grass isn't as grippy as tarmac. Running off and crashing happens, but to try and pursue the organisers for not telling you is obscene. Maybe it's a reflection of the blame/claim culture.
If however an event was held with Marshalls and an accident occurred through gross negligence of the organiser or their hired personnel, as happened at Oulton some time back, that's a different matter.
But i guess it's just a sad day when people have to be chaperoned around because they possibly lack the common sense to look after themselves.

You're right, but that's a social issue that we're facing over here in all walks of life.

I was there at Oulton when that incident happened and it wasn't down to gross negligence IMO although I've not seen the coroner's report.

[MoelyCrio]

My first trackday last Saturday at Anglesey. Went on my 2001 CBR and travelled 80 miles in the morning to get there. Thought there would be more road bikes tbh. I was on my own, so it was a little bit intimidating at first. Everybody else seemed very into it. I was nervous as hell and almost tempted to go home after the safety briefing - just didn't feel comfortable at all.

Anyway, managed to force myself out and got through the sighting laps ok. The bike felt very squirmy with the lower pressures. Managed to latch onto somebody who was doing a reasonable pace, faster than I would be doing myself, but not out of my comfort zone. Really started to enjoy it until somebody then binned it in the chicane bit and we were red flagged. I came in then and had a coffee. Managed to get through four sessions in total (1 damp, 1 soaking) and acheived what I'd set out to do.

1) Didn't crash.
2) Finally used my rear tyre to the edge.
3) Got some confidence so I can make more of it next time.


edit - I've bought this photo - just can't downlaod it at work!