Bikes are slow...

[Biker's Nemesis]

7 min 32 seconds on a 04 R1. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X9JuIt--J2A&fea...


Following the M5 ring Taxi. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9Ps8wCQJrMo&fea...

[RobM77]

Look here:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nürburgring_lap_...

This is a good list of lap times and an explanation of what bridge to gantry means. The website quoted above isn't bridge to gantry times, it's just the name of the website

BTG = 19.2km
Full lap = 20.6km
Difference = 1.5km

An R1 averaging 170mph over that section from GTB would take 20 seconds to cover it, so a realistic full lap time for the R1 would be a 7m51s. Looking at the Wikipedia site that's a second slower than a bog standard 911 C2S

However...Note that the ring is an unusual track, as it favours vehicles with high top speeds over what conventional wisdom would call "fast" (stripped out, grippy, race tuned etc). The vast majority of UK circuits order cars completely differently. I rented a racing Caterham a few years ago at the ring, and it spend about half the lap stuck on the limiter in top gear. That same Caterham would obliterate a 911 C2S around Brands, Combe, Cadwell etc (I used to race one so know the lap times), yet at the ring it would be considerably slower.

[srob]

Biker's Nemesis said:

Just a reminder of how dangerous the Nurburgring is for the 2 wheeled lads.

http://www.slidersguesthouse.com/memorium.htm

Got to say, having lapped the 'ring in a car I would never do it on a bike!

We had a bike come up behind us, with one of the 'taxi' Dodge Vipers inches from its back wheel around a corner. Both of us in the car ride bikes and we both shuddered at how dangerous it looked!

[Pothole]

srob said:

Pothole said:

srob said:

jackal said:

For the price of a GT3RS you could buy 15 of the best ones that have ever been made.

I can't be bothered with the rest of the argument because it will drag on for weeks. On the above though, you're easily proven wrong. Just look at an auction house motorcycle department's sale history. There are lots of bikes that will make your 911 look cheap.

Have you ever heard the saying, "it's better to sit there, say nothing and let everyone think you're an idiot than to open your mouth and confirm it?"

I look like I'm agreeing with the whole of the OP, but I'm not, just this bit. Auction house motorcycle departments do not sell what most of us would consider "the best ones that have ever been made" They sell historically important bikes or exotica, neither of which often meet that brief.

The current GT3 RS is listed at £104841. you could buy 15 Fireblades for that money, not new ones, but recent ones which would easily sit in anyone's top 10 bikes of all time. Same with the R1150GS or the GL1800 Gold Wing or the R1, Blackbird, etc etc etc.

I'm not even sure why the OP bothered to add that detail it doesn't support his arguement.

I'd consider a Brough Superior SS-100 to be one of "the best ones that have ever been made". And any SS-100 would sell for significantly more than £104841, not just the ones with special history.

I'd disagree, it's not better at touring than a Gold Wing, or more rough track touring than a GS, or a motorway journey daily commute than a Fireblade, is it? A fabulous bike but only the best of its era, perhaps

[Biker's Nemesis]

RobM77 said:

Look here:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nürburgring_lap_...

This is a good list of lap times and an explanation of what bridge to gantry means. The website quoted above isn't bridge to gantry times, it's just the name of the website

BTG = 19.2km
Full lap = 20.6km
Difference = 1.5km

An R1 averaging 170mph over that section from GTB would take 20 seconds to cover it, so a realistic full lap time for the R1 would be a 7m51s. Looking at the Wikipedia site that's a second slower than a bog standard 911 C2S

However...Note that the ring is an unusual track, as it favours vehicles with high top speeds over what conventional wisdom would call "fast" (stripped out, grippy, race tuned etc). The vast majority of UK circuits order cars completely differently. I rented a racing Caterham a few years ago at the ring, and it spend about half the lap stuck on the limiter in top gear. That same Caterham would obliterate a 911 C2S around Brands, Combe, Cadwell etc (I used to race one so know the lap times), yet at the ring it would be considerably slower.

Aww come on, that Porsche in the picture can't be described as a road car.

Last time I was at the Nurburgring at a private 3 day BMW course i was lapping around the 8 minute 20 seconds mark on the full track riding a road going R1.

I'd liked to have seen (if the rumors were true) Nori Haga have a go on his WSB R1, that would've been under the 7 minute mark. IMO of course.

Anyway, going out for a meal with the Mrs.

[RobM77]

Eh? What Porsche in what picture? The time I quoted was for a factory fresh bog standard C2S.

The denial on this thread is really bizarre. Why bother denying the truth when it's so obvious?!

[bass gt3]

i have an 09 FireBlade. it's feckin' fast.
i have a GT3. it's feckin' fast.
i have a 996. it's feckin' fast.

The quick witted amongst you will have picked up on a theme here. I'm feckin' fast!!!

i've driven a full fat Radical and there really is little to compare in the real world for sheer cornering ability.going into a corner fast and then accelerating hard to make the aero work is a bizarre thing, but god it's viscious.
But any modern superbike can accelerate so mind bogglingly quickly, any ground it loses in the corner will be regained on the straight, only to lose it again under braking and cornering.See a pattern developing here???
Bottom line, it all depends on the course, the car, the bike and the day.
lets leave it there, eh??

[srob]

Pothole said:

srob said:

Pothole said:

srob said:

jackal said:

For the price of a GT3RS you could buy 15 of the best ones that have ever been made.

I can't be bothered with the rest of the argument because it will drag on for weeks. On the above though, you're easily proven wrong. Just look at an auction house motorcycle department's sale history. There are lots of bikes that will make your 911 look cheap.

Have you ever heard the saying, "it's better to sit there, say nothing and let everyone think you're an idiot than to open your mouth and confirm it?"

I look like I'm agreeing with the whole of the OP, but I'm not, just this bit. Auction house motorcycle departments do not sell what most of us would consider "the best ones that have ever been made" They sell historically important bikes or exotica, neither of which often meet that brief.

The current GT3 RS is listed at £104841. you could buy 15 Fireblades for that money, not new ones, but recent ones which would easily sit in anyone's top 10 bikes of all time. Same with the R1150GS or the GL1800 Gold Wing or the R1, Blackbird, etc etc etc.

I'm not even sure why the OP bothered to add that detail it doesn't support his arguement.

I'd consider a Brough Superior SS-100 to be one of "the best ones that have ever been made". And any SS-100 would sell for significantly more than £104841, not just the ones with special history.

I'd disagree, it's not better at touring than a Gold Wing, or more rough track touring than a GS, or a motorway journey daily commute than a Fireblade, is it? A fabulous bike but only the best of its era, perhaps

The OP said ever.

I see what you're saying, and of course current machines would be better at most things than a 1920's bike, but without the development of such bikes the new stuff would be nowhere near where they are now. I'd consider the progress made by something like the SS-100 to be far more significant than that made by almost any other to be honest. And for that reason, I consider it to be one of the best ever

[Pothole]

and I disagree.

[jackal]

BliarOut said:

jackal said:

Its fairly self explanatory ...


A bike has no weight so it's not truly quick. Put it this way, if any of my cars, even my lowly volvo estate was as light as a bike then it would SMOKE any motorcycle you care to name.

Oh, la-di-dah! Look what I found in my laundry bag! All of Felicity Kendal's underwear

I worked with her son once.. few years back now. He had a weird voice and wouldn't shut up most of the time.

[srob]

Pothole said:

and I disagree.

OK then, quality. You find me a bike that is better made and better finished, from any era by any manufacturer.

Rolls Royce has never given their blessing to any other manufacturer in history.

[RobM77]

bass gt3 said:

i have an 09 FireBlade. it's feckin' fast.
i have a GT3. it's feckin' fast.
i have a 996. it's feckin' fast.

The quick witted amongst you will have picked up on a theme here. I'm feckin' fast!!!

i've driven a full fat Radical and there really is little to compare in the real world for sheer cornering ability.going into a corner fast and then accelerating hard to make the aero work is a bizarre thing, but god it's viscious.
But any modern superbike can accelerate so mind bogglingly quickly, any ground it loses in the corner will be regained on the straight, only to lose it again under braking and cornering.See a pattern developing here???
Bottom line, it all depends on the course, the car, the bike and the day.
lets leave it there, eh??

Good post. However, all I'm trying to do is give some lap times to prove what the truth is, and people are denying plane numbers. We've had people quoting BTG times instead of full lap times, people claiming that a standard C2S tested by a magazine was a stripped out road racer when it wasn't, people claiming that a knackered old Rover is an example of a really quick car and all sorts of weird posts.

The truth is that a car with the same focus on performance as a sports bike (Caterham, Radical, Atom, Brooke, 2-11 etc) is quicker over a lap than a sports bike, unless the circuit has stop-go chicanes or something like that. Evo recorded a lap around Croft in an R500 about two seconds quicker than an R1 ridden by a racer! Cars now are even faster than that.

If we look at racing machines, then the same is true again. When any bike can get close to a GP2 or F1 car I'll eat my words!

I'm not saying bikes aren't great, cause they are, but some people here need to look at lap times and accept the truth. It's like talking to a bunch of creationists about evolution

[RemyMartin]

RobM77 said:

bass gt3 said:

i have an 09 FireBlade. it's feckin' fast.
i have a GT3. it's feckin' fast.
i have a 996. it's feckin' fast.

The quick witted amongst you will have picked up on a theme here. I'm feckin' fast!!!

i've driven a full fat Radical and there really is little to compare in the real world for sheer cornering ability.going into a corner fast and then accelerating hard to make the aero work is a bizarre thing, but god it's viscious.
But any modern superbike can accelerate so mind bogglingly quickly, any ground it loses in the corner will be regained on the straight, only to lose it again under braking and cornering.See a pattern developing here???
Bottom line, it all depends on the course, the car, the bike and the day.
lets leave it there, eh??

Good post. However, all I'm trying to do is give some lap times to prove what the truth is, and people are denying plane numbers. We've had people quoting BTG times instead of full lap times, people claiming that a standard C2S tested by a magazine was a stripped out road racer when it wasn't, people claiming that a knackered old Rover is an example of a really quick car and all sorts of weird posts.

The truth is that a car with the same focus on performance as a sports bike (Caterham, Radical, Atom, Brooke, 2-11 etc) is quicker over a lap than a sports bike, unless the circuit has stop-go chicanes or something like that. Evo recorded a lap around Croft in an R500 about two seconds quicker than an R1 ridden by a racer! Cars now are even faster than that.

If we look at racing machines, then the same is true again. When any bike can get close to a GP2 or F1 car I'll eat my words!

I'm not saying bikes aren't great, cause they are, but some people here need to look at lap times and accept the truth. It's like talking to a bunch of creationists about evolution

wow I bet your a hit with the women.

Who gives a fk about lap times and what matters is that a bike is still fast no matter what anyone thinks. Laptimes do not change the fact that 99% of the time you come across a bike it will accelerate away from you and make you look silly.

[John D.]

RemyMartin said:

RobM77 said:

bass gt3 said:

i have an 09 FireBlade. it's feckin' fast.
i have a GT3. it's feckin' fast.
i have a 996. it's feckin' fast.

The quick witted amongst you will have picked up on a theme here. I'm feckin' fast!!!

i've driven a full fat Radical and there really is little to compare in the real world for sheer cornering ability.going into a corner fast and then accelerating hard to make the aero work is a bizarre thing, but god it's viscious.
But any modern superbike can accelerate so mind bogglingly quickly, any ground it loses in the corner will be regained on the straight, only to lose it again under braking and cornering.See a pattern developing here???
Bottom line, it all depends on the course, the car, the bike and the day.
lets leave it there, eh??

Good post. However, all I'm trying to do is give some lap times to prove what the truth is, and people are denying plane numbers. We've had people quoting BTG times instead of full lap times, people claiming that a standard C2S tested by a magazine was a stripped out road racer when it wasn't, people claiming that a knackered old Rover is an example of a really quick car and all sorts of weird posts.

The truth is that a car with the same focus on performance as a sports bike (Caterham, Radical, Atom, Brooke, 2-11 etc) is quicker over a lap than a sports bike, unless the circuit has stop-go chicanes or something like that. Evo recorded a lap around Croft in an R500 about two seconds quicker than an R1 ridden by a racer! Cars now are even faster than that.

If we look at racing machines, then the same is true again. When any bike can get close to a GP2 or F1 car I'll eat my words!

I'm not saying bikes aren't great, cause they are, but some people here need to look at lap times and accept the truth. It's like talking to a bunch of creationists about evolution

wow I bet your a hit with the women.

Who gives a fk about lap times and what matters is that a bike is still fast no matter what anyone thinks. Laptimes do not change the fact that 99% of the time you come across a bike it will accelerate away from you and make you look silly.

And then get in my way at the next corner (if we're talking 99% of the time )

[RemyMartin]

To be fair, if you could do my commute even within ten minutes of me I'd give you the keys to my bike.

[R1 Loon]

John D. said:

And then get in my way at the next corner (if we're talking 99% of the time )

I coud say the same about 99.9% of the cars I caome across on the road whether I'm driving or riding. This is where the ability of driver / rider matters and this is the thing that hasn't been discussed on the thread.

Stick a Micra driving, 150 year iold granny in a Veyron and it'll still get in the way of everyone. It doesn't mean the car's st, it means the driver's st.

I was at Cadwell earlier this week for 2 days and some of the riders in the Inters & Advanced group were awful. I'm not the quickest and if I can ovetake them, then lap them inside 3 laps, then they've got a problem.

Give the Rossi's M1 and they'll still be slow, but it'll be down to their ability, not the bike's.

[cyberface]

To be fair, you've got to give him his dues. He's trolled this forum good and proper, this BS is still the top post and there are 8 pages. Yeah I'm being a hypocrite by responding to it, but just pointing out that this chap spends most of his posts trolling other forums on PH, and the biker crew have bitten HARD. Jackal > BB unfortunately

[R1 Loon]

cyberface said:

To be fair, you've got to give him his dues. He's trolled this forum good and proper, this BS is still the top post and there are 8 pages. Yeah I'm being a hypocrite by responding to it, but just pointing out that this chap spends most of his posts trolling other forums on PH, and the biker crew have bitten HARD. Jackal > BB unfortunately

Or having a good debate. Few have started jumping up and down with smoke coming out of their ears.

[RobM77]

R1 Loon said:

cyberface said:

To be fair, you've got to give him his dues. He's trolled this forum good and proper, this BS is still the top post and there are 8 pages. Yeah I'm being a hypocrite by responding to it, but just pointing out that this chap spends most of his posts trolling other forums on PH, and the biker crew have bitten HARD. Jackal > BB unfortunately

Or having a good debate. Few have started jumping up and down with smoke coming out of their ears.

yeah. I'm amazed!

I love my Elise, but if someone told me that a Noble was quicker round a track and showed me a lap time chart I'd say "oh yes, so it is". I wouldn't start kicking and screaming about my ego being damaged like half the bikers on here are.

[R1 Loon]

RobM77 said:

yeah. I'm amazed!

I love my Elise, but if someone told me that a Noble was quicker round a track and showed me a lap time chart I'd say "oh yes, so it is". I wouldn't start kicking and screaming about my ego being damaged like half the bikers on here are.

Isn't that the point though, lap times are all down to the driver on the day. Few of us here could match or get close to those times. I'm damn sure that a MotoGP rider could get my bike round any track much faster than I can, as could any professional racing driver with my car.

However, its unlikely that I could blat along at 187mph or 155mph at many points on the road, so traffic volumes would dictate which one got me whereever quicker. So bikes will get you to your destination quicker than a similarly skilled driver could get there in a car.