£4-5k on an FJR1300 or a R1200GS?

[black-k1]

Reardy Mister said:

black-k1 said:

RizzoTheRat said:

If you're considering a VFR1200 then it might also be worth looking at the K1300S as a pretty capable long distance sports tourer.

I currently commute into London on my K1300S. I do a total of 75 miles each way which is mixed between country A and B roads, motorway and town roads. It's superb for the job. Comfortable and quick. I change the ESA between comfort, normal and sport a few times in each journey according to the road conditions and how I want to ride. I can filter as well as any bike bigger than a moped and regularly catch other bikes up when filtering. While it’s not a light weight it’s not bad either with a low CoG and a seat height that lets me get both feet flat on the floor.

For touring it has hard luggage that is easy to fit/remove, does 50mpg, 200 miles to a tank and pulls top gear from 25mph to 175mph without batting an eyelid.

For sports riding it’s a quick on the road a pretty much any sports bike, having decent power and torque but the ESA allows it to use that power on a number of different road surfaces that would have sports bikes struggling. The handling is solid and secure with the “funny front end” allowing the rider to take some pretty serious liberties with regards to late hard braking.

Theyre s superb looking thing but not sure it'll be any good for a pillion(?) Especially long distance. Probably out of the budget too.

Pillion provision is pretty good with a fair amount of space, a good wide seat and decent grab handles. It's not a Goldwing or a R1200RT but it's pretty good.

Price wise, you can get them froma little over £5000 if you shop around, so a bit over budget, but no more so than some of the other suggestions.

[Renn Sport]

spareparts said:

Renn Sport said:

spareparts said:

I'll give you that: the GS is not a bike for straight line speed merchants on the motorway if that thing appeals to you. The GS does run out of puff as it approaches 110-120mph (where legal). In the twisties over some fun roads, then a well ridden GS is a quick bike, and it will easily keep up for longer and further than any sportsbike rider can manage.

I'm not blinded by the GS, as I thoroughly enjoy my c.200hp sportsbike and have used it as intended plus ridden hard over roads. FWIW, I've also ridden the S1000XR and do not rate it for fast road riding. I think their new RS is a faster bike that can carry serious speed through bends.

With all due respect (and I mean that). It’s not about being a straight line speed merchant, and frankly its tiresome when someone suggests that they enjoy horsepower that people automatically assume that you only go fast in a straight-line. Few things are better than being cranked over at speed, especially a big old GS, which feels fantastic leant over.

I think it comes down to what kind of riding you enjoy really. The GS would have remained at 90bhp if BMW didn’t think horsepower wasn’t important. They wouldn’t have developed the XR if they felt performance wasn’t a factor in customers desire for a bit more go.

The point you make about the 'well ridden' GS can keep up with sport bikes. Thats just the most over used standard patter when ever these discussions happen. Usually In the context of 600’s and 1000’s. Can I put it to you that a well ridden GS is going to get left for dead by a well ridden 1000 sport bike? The pre supposition is that the GS being ridden well and the Sportbike not. The rider variable can be applied across any range of bike.

There is a great story where Kenny Roberts Snr was riding his Harley through some canyon roads. He got buzzed by a sport bike rider and overtaken very close. He took exception to that and decided it was on. Kenny Roberts murdered the guy through the canyons and only when the sport bike rider started to override and was on the opposite side of the road (on coming traffic) and running off places trying to chase. Kenny just stopped and waved the guy through.. he let him go. In Kenny Roberts words he said he ‘let him live’.

Rider ability and the risk they are prepared to take on the road is the usually the deciding factor as to who is faster. The more I ride on track the more crazy superfast road riding seems to me. It’s just a gamble with your life and health. Just my opinion though. I still ride quick but to the road conditions, traffic and road knowledge.


I think if you ride a Ducati Multi-strada 1200 you’ll find it so much more enjoyable than the GS as you have so much more torque and agility! I can only imagine what the KTM 1290 Adventure feels like and by all accounts its superb.

On another note.. do you remember the BMW HP2 Enduro? Imagine a new 125bhp GS1200 stripped down supermoto? Lighter and more agile, now that would be a stonking bike.

I'm not sure, but you seem to be arguing with yourself. You've just reaffirmed that Kenny was a good rider on a lower powered bike showing up a sports bike rider. As I said earlier:

spareparts said:

If anyone thinks the GS is slow compared to other bikes on the road, they probably need rider training.

The current LC GS has brilliant handling be it 2-up or solo.

As Emerson Fittipaldi once said, if you can't go fast with 100hp, you won't be fast with 1000. Same principle applies to bikes..

And on track, I think the latest edition of PB shows Michael Rutter enjoying the new Triumph 675 and showing it to be just as fast as many 1000 superbikes. You're wrong about BMW believing that you need more Hp hence they developed the XR. They developed the XR to win sales in a segment dominated by the Multi. So if you enjoy the 160hp (who doesn't) then go for it! You don't need to justify the need for more HP by suggesting lesser HP bikes are slow... Because they're not . If you think they are, you prove the point that you need more rider training

No I am not arguing with myself. Just read carefully. I am pointing out your redundent schpieel about 'a well ridden GS vs a sportbike' patter which is tired. Is irrelevent.

What I am also saying is that rider ability is the defining factor. A well ridden sport bike will kill a well ridden GS full stop. End of.

If BMW didnt deem the GS required more power then why has it gone from 90bhp to 100bhp to 110bhp and now 125 bhp? Err because more power makes a big heavy big nicer to ride? Probably.

Lastly... you point

spareparts said:

You don't need to justify the need for more HP by suggesting lesser HP bikes are slow... Because they're not . If you think they are, you prove the point that you need more rider training

This is utter tosh. I know my own ability and it cannot be demonstrated over a forum. Not only that you are in no position to judge my ability! This just your arrogance being displayed.

I do need more training as do the majority of us riders, I have failed to meet a rider even those riding in the fast group who didnt need or couldnt benifit from further training. We all need training as do you.

The fact I think the GS1200 could do with more power is shared by many. Just because you like the bike and have a different opinion doesnt mean I am wrong.

[Reardy Mister]

Renn Sport and spare parts said:

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As I said, for the requirements of this thread 100hp is enough anyway.

[Reardy Mister]

black-k1 said:

It's not a Goldwing or a R1200RT but it's pretty good.

Just remembered these myself and there are plenty in budget, including heated grips, seats, Radio/CD, elec sreen and some with ESA

[RizzoTheRat]

Reardy Mister said:

As I said, for the requirements of this thread 100hp is enough anyway.

And as one of the requirements is pillion carrying ability it rules out a lot of sportier stuff anyway.

If you're considering a GS then the Multistrada's already been mentioned, but there's also the Triumph Explorer and Yamaha Super Tenere which would all achieve the OP's requirement. There's also some slightly smaller ones like the Tiger 800, and Yamaha Tracer, and some uglier ones like the Honda Crossdresser Crosstourer and Crossrunner. All of which should be all day comfortable and easily cope with luggage and pillion when touring.

[Rosscow]

RizzoTheRat said:

Reardy Mister said:

As I said, for the requirements of this thread 100hp is enough anyway.

And as one of the requirements is pillion carrying ability it rules out a lot of sportier stuff anyway.

If you're considering a GS then the Multistrada's already been mentioned, but there's also the Triumph Explorer and Yamaha Super Tenere which would all achieve the OP's requirement. There's also some slightly smaller ones like the Tiger 800, and Yamaha Tracer, and some uglier ones like the Honda Crossdresser Crosstourer and Crossrunner. All of which should be all day comfortable and easily cope with luggage and pillion when touring.

The Crosstourer is a hell of a machine - that lovely VFR1200 V4 engine for starters! No uglier than any of the other 'adventure' bikes IMO, but probably a lot more reliable.

[Renn Sport]

Reardy Mister said:

Renn Sport and spare parts said:

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As I said, for the requirements of this thread 100hp is enough anyway.

Apologies. I have put mine down.

[Rosscow]

Some cracking 0% finance deals on the Crosstourer, as well!

http://bikes.honda.co.uk/motorcycles/range/adventu...

I'd go for the top of the range Highlander T with DCT for £175 a month! Put half your £5k down as a deposit, save the other half and 'find' another £2500 at the end to pay for it!

Do you have anything you can throw in for part ex?

I want a new bike

[Silver993tt]

Rosscow said:

Some cracking 0% finance deals on the Crosstourer, as well!

http://bikes.honda.co.uk/motorcycles/range/adventu...

I'd go for the top of the range Highlander T with DCT for £175 a month! Put half your £5k down as a deposit, save the other half and 'find' another £2500 at the end to pay for it!

Do you have anything you can throw in for part ex?

I want a new bike

I had a Crosstourer DCT, fantastic bike. After test riding a few bikes including the GS it was the clear winner, so much better built, more torque and more power than the GS. For commuting/traffic was superb with the high bars, much, much easier than anything like the K1300S and ZZR1400 (that I had before) in those conditions. The DCT made the bike effortless and very fast accelerating.

[kurt535]

Buy Jap every time; GS is a barge that gives the illusion its cranked over on bends, etc as rider sits upright and high. Overpriced too and nowhere built to the same standards as their cars. I kept mine for 12 months and went back to Jap as thing kept on breaking and needing replacement parts. The argument regarding BMW adding hp to the bike is not surprising as i feel they had to as it is so 'draggy'; bits hang off it all over the place creating fuel and power sapping drag left right and centre.

[Rosscow]

kurt535 said:

Buy Jap every time; GS is a barge that gives the illusion its cranked over on bends, etc as rider sits upright and high. Overpriced too and nowhere built to the same standards as their cars. I kept mine for 12 months and went back to Jap as thing kept on breaking and needing replacement parts. The argument regarding BMW adding hp to the bike is not surprising as i feel they had to as it is so 'draggy'; bits hang off it all over the place creating fuel and power sapping drag left right and centre.

I agree. I feel I'm destined for a VFR12 at some point in the future.... just don't know when or which type

[dern]

Rosscow said:

kurt535 said:

Buy Jap every time; GS is a barge that gives the illusion its cranked over on bends, etc as rider sits upright and high. Overpriced too and nowhere built to the same standards as their cars. I kept mine for 12 months and went back to Jap as thing kept on breaking and needing replacement parts. The argument regarding BMW adding hp to the bike is not surprising as i feel they had to as it is so 'draggy'; bits hang off it all over the place creating fuel and power sapping drag left right and centre.

I agree. I feel I'm destined for a VFR12 at some point in the future.... just don't know when or which type

I thought the gs handled pretty well but I agree with the rest. I don't think that there's an absolute answer for the power question but I certainly wanted more out of it than it provided. The quality needs to be way better to justify the price... it does seem odd as my bmw car of the same period seems to be built to a much much better standard.

[A993LAD]

Silver993tt said:

I had a Crosstourer DCT, fantastic bike. After test riding a few bikes including the GS it was the clear winner, so much better built, more torque and more power than the GS. For commuting/traffic was superb with the high bars, much, much easier than anything like the K1300S and ZZR1400 (that I had before) in those conditions. The DCT made the bike effortless and very fast accelerating.

What?

You've sold the DCT already?

Blimey silver 993TT, you can't have had it more than a few days!

[Silver993tt]

A993LAD said:

Silver993tt said:

I had a Crosstourer DCT, fantastic bike. After test riding a few bikes including the GS it was the clear winner, so much better built, more torque and more power than the GS. For commuting/traffic was superb with the high bars, much, much easier than anything like the K1300S and ZZR1400 (that I had before) in those conditions. The DCT made the bike effortless and very fast accelerating.

What?

You've sold the DCT already?

Blimey silver 993TT, you can't have had it more than a few days!

Had it two years, toured Sardinia, Corsica, Italy, Croatia etc and due to personal circumstances I sold it in the UK. Now I'm buying a new KTM 1290 Super Adventure, got a fantastic deal in Euros. Due to the exchange rate, I just need to add 2.5kGBP and I have a new 1290 SA, not bad for 2 years biking on a new bike I will miss teh DCT, fantastic gearbox, just hope the other manufacturers start to offer it also.

[RizzoTheRat]

Never ridden one but on paper the Crosstourer does look like a cracking bike.

Interested to hear how you get on with the KTM, got a couple of mate with the older Adventures and they love them but have had a few issues. Isn't it you who's usually a massive fan of shaft drive over chains?

[Silver993tt]

RizzoTheRat said:

Never ridden one but on paper the Crosstourer does look like a cracking bike.

Interested to hear how you get on with the KTM, got a couple of mate with the older Adventures and they love them but have had a few issues. Isn't it you who's usually a massive fan of shaft drive over chains?

Yes, I like the idea of the shaft drive and was great on the CT but time for a change, would have preferred shaft on the 1290. I had a 600km test ride on it and it was great, so after getting a very good deal I placed an order, should pick it up in a couple of weeks.

[bass gt3]

Silver993tt said:

es, I like the idea of the shaft drive and was great on the CT but time for a change, would have preferred shaft on the 1290. I had a 600km test ride on it and it was great, so after getting a very good deal I placed an order, should pick it up in a couple of weeks.

What sold you on the 1290 compared to the others??

[spareparts]

Renn Sport said:

This is utter tosh. I know my own ability and it cannot be demonstrated over a forum. Not only that you are in no position to judge my ability! This just your arrogance being displayed.

I do need more training as do the majority of us riders, I have failed to meet a rider even those riding in the fast group who didnt need or couldnt benifit from further training. We all need training as do you.

The fact I think the GS1200 could do with more power is shared by many. Just because you like the bike and have a different opinion doesnt mean I am wrong.

Hang on a second....

Yep, training is always good! But take it from me that over normal mixed roads, a sportsbike may be faster over certain sections of road, but a GS will easily keep up except for when the sportsbike rider rides at very illegal speeds. I think this is the point you're missing. My sportsbike is a lot faster on any straight, any smooth A-road, but there's not much to brag about when it's doing 100-160+mph. Throw in some twisties, even some hairpins, and some broken tarmac, and the GS is quicker than the Ducati. How do I know? Well, I've ridden both over the same roads in England and here in the Pyrenees (where I am right now) and I can assure you that the GS is faster overall. I've also ridden the same combination of roads on a K1300S and the GS is still faster. I just did the N260, N240, C26, C16, BV-4241 (Google is your friend) over the past 3 days from Olot to San Sebastián via Andorra, and the GS is the fastest and easiest of all 3 bikes.

A Multistrada may be even quicker, but I doubt it. The suppleness of the Telelever front end over broken roads is sublime.
I'm not the fastest of riders, and continue to get rider training every year, but I'm quick enough to push bikes to their limit on the roads. So arrogance? Perhaps. But I speak with 1st hand experience of these bikes over the same roads both in England and abroad. I'm telling you my experience with these kinds of bikes over distance - ie, 100-300+ miles a day. Tell me yours, not what internet hearsay says.

[Reardy Mister]

spareparts said:

Renn Sport said:

This is utter tosh. I know my own ability and it cannot be demonstrated over a forum. Not only that you are in no position to judge my ability! This just your arrogance being displayed.

I do need more training as do the majority of us riders, I have failed to meet a rider even those riding in the fast group who didnt need or couldnt benifit from further training. We all need training as do you.

The fact I think the GS1200 could do with more power is shared by many. Just because you like the bike and have a different opinion doesnt mean I am wrong.

Hang on a second....
Yep, training is always good! But take it from me that over normal mixed roads, a sportsbike may be faster over certain sections of road, but a GS will easily keep up except for when the sportsbike rider rides at very illegal speeds. I think this is the point you're missing. My sportsbike is a lot faster on any straight, any smooth A-road, but there's not much to brag about when it's doing 100-160+mph. Throw in some twisties, even some hairpins, and some broken tarmac, and the GS is quicker than the Ducati. How do I know? Well, I've ridden both over the same roads in England and here in the Pyrenees (where I am right now) and I can assure you that the GS is faster overall. I've also ridden the same combination of roads on a K1300S and the GS is still faster. I just did the N260, N240, C26, C16, BV-4241 (Google is your friend) over the past 3 days from Olot to San Sebastián via Andorra, and the GS is the fastest and easiest of all 3 bikes.

A Multistrada may be even quicker, but I doubt it. The suppleness of the Telelever front end over broken roads is sublime.
I'm not the fastest of riders, and continue to get rider training every year, but I'm quick enough to push bikes to their limit on the roads. So arrogance? Perhaps. But I speak with 1st hand experience of these bikes over the same roads both in England and abroad. I'm telling you my experience with these kinds of bikes over distance - ie, 100-300+ miles a day. Tell me yours, not what internet hearsay says.

Generally speaking I find that whole angle far too subjective. This business of "this bike is faster on this road cause I tried it with a mate once" is all a bit woolly for me. If for your riding style, ability and requirements you find the GS faster, stick with it and more power to you. No one can really argue that.

So, moving on...

Edited by Reardy Mister on Thursday 18th June 21:00

[spareparts]

Reardy Mister said:

Generally speaking I find that whole angle far too subjective. This business of "this bike is faster on this road cause I tried it with a mate once" is all a bit woolly for me. If for your riding style, ability and requirements you find the GS faster, stick with it and more power to you. No one can really argue that.

So, moving on...

Edited by Reardy Mister on Thursday 18th June 21:00

Only as subjective as magazine articles doing road tests. Not woolly. 2013 vs 2014 vs 2015, 3 bikes, same roads.

Anyway, I'll bow out and let PH BB return to the normal....