Discussion
https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?v=1015160375018...
I'd be interested to read your thoughts on this video. I don't know how to make it appear properly on here and it won't link so it's a copy and paste job I'm afraid.
I'd be interested to read your thoughts on this video. I don't know how to make it appear properly on here and it won't link so it's a copy and paste job I'm afraid.
well it *looks* like the bike pulled out to overtake, went forward, then the car moved right into it. That would suggest that the car didnt see the bike, and thus was clearly at fault.
however, the bike might well have been in the cars blind spot -- too far forward for the door mirror, not far forward enough for driver to see in side window
on an overtake like that, especially when overtaking a performance car likely to be driven by a frisky driver, I'd always sound the horn and go full beam etc before starting. Otherwise, you'd have to expect the car driver to pull out, which he did. Doesnt make it the bikers *fault* - but... hmmmm.... cant hear any bike horn on the video?
however, the bike might well have been in the cars blind spot -- too far forward for the door mirror, not far forward enough for driver to see in side window
on an overtake like that, especially when overtaking a performance car likely to be driven by a frisky driver, I'd always sound the horn and go full beam etc before starting. Otherwise, you'd have to expect the car driver to pull out, which he did. Doesnt make it the bikers *fault* - but... hmmmm.... cant hear any bike horn on the video?
Glad it's not just me!
The video was pasted to a friends facebook and attracted all sorts of anti car comments. I thought the same as you lot and put:
The car driver is clearly in the wrong but- in the interest of self preservation you have to remember how fast your bike is. I'll bet that the car driver will say he looked in his mirror and nothing was there so he went for the overtake, next minute the bike was there. Also the clues are there for the unfortunate bike rider, if you watch the car in the few seconds before the crash it is clear he's going to go for the overtake.
The video was pasted to a friends facebook and attracted all sorts of anti car comments. I thought the same as you lot and put:
The car driver is clearly in the wrong but- in the interest of self preservation you have to remember how fast your bike is. I'll bet that the car driver will say he looked in his mirror and nothing was there so he went for the overtake, next minute the bike was there. Also the clues are there for the unfortunate bike rider, if you watch the car in the few seconds before the crash it is clear he's going to go for the overtake.
f
king Hell, as said by the bloke in the vid, describes that superbly. Sillyness all round, bike goes for a slighly risky overtake, car goes for the same overtake 2 seconds later.
I can't place blame anywhere, but the violence with which the biker is thrown off the road looks horrifying.
king Hell, as said by the bloke in the vid, describes that superbly. Sillyness all round, bike goes for a slighly risky overtake, car goes for the same overtake 2 seconds later. I can't place blame anywhere, but the violence with which the biker is thrown off the road looks horrifying.
I feel like I'm taking crazy pills reading the replies here! He was following the car for what I counted nearly 20seconds.
If the car had indicated correctly for an overtake AND anticipated the bikes going past AND looked over his shoulder before pulling out, the bike would have held back, or, this wouldn't have happened.
s
t driving on behalf of the car driver IMHO. That looks painful, hope the guys ok.
My view is 50/50 too, the car was quite close to the one in front and I'd have wagered he we looking for an overtake, probably concentrating more on that than his mirrors, saw his gap and wanted to go, do we know if he had been stuck behind the other car a while causing ipatience, not an excuse but possibly another factor.
Don't appear to see an indicator from either the biker or the car, though both seemed to simultaneously spring to the same gap ...
And goes to show doesnt matter how many Beware Bikers signs there are, the car driver still may not have checked his mirror which would be shocking if thats the case as judging by the number of bikes out on that road its obviously a a favorite.
Get well soon whoever you are ...
My view is 50/50 too, the car was quite close to the one in front and I'd have wagered he we looking for an overtake, probably concentrating more on that than his mirrors, saw his gap and wanted to go, do we know if he had been stuck behind the other car a while causing ipatience, not an excuse but possibly another factor.
Don't appear to see an indicator from either the biker or the car, though both seemed to simultaneously spring to the same gap ...
And goes to show doesnt matter how many Beware Bikers signs there are, the car driver still may not have checked his mirror which would be shocking if thats the case as judging by the number of bikes out on that road its obviously a a favorite.
Get well soon whoever you are ...
VidalBaboon said:
I feel like I'm taking crazy pills reading the replies here! He was following the car for what I counted nearly 20seconds.
If the car had indicated correctly for an overtake AND anticipated the bikes going past AND looked over his shoulder before pulling out, the bike would have held back, or, this wouldn't have happened.
s
t driving on behalf of the car driver IMHO. sc0tt said:
VidalBaboon said:
I feel like I'm taking crazy pills reading the replies here! He was following the car for what I counted nearly 20seconds.
If the car had indicated correctly for an overtake AND anticipated the bikes going past AND looked over his shoulder before pulling out, the bike would have held back, or, this wouldn't have happened.
s
t driving on behalf of the car driver IMHO. The biker isn't 100% fault free- more road positioning and following too close, but it's certainly not 50/50. As for full beam and sounding the horn before overtaking...
do you get someone to walk infront holding a flag when going to the shops? I would say the bikers at fault
Reason being if the car in front is holding up the car behind, which seems to be the case as the car went to over take. The the biker should have expected this
I had the same (without the crash) on Sunday. |Following 2 cars. 1 holding the other up. straight bit of road and i knew by how the car behind was acting it wanted to get past. No indicators just passed the car in front
I was going to go, then held back as I seen he was about to move
Yes poor observation by the car, but they seem to both go to overtake at the same time. I did not see the biker indicate either.
In the end this will happen and I hope the biker was ok
Just my view anywho
Reason being if the car in front is holding up the car behind, which seems to be the case as the car went to over take. The the biker should have expected this
I had the same (without the crash) on Sunday. |Following 2 cars. 1 holding the other up. straight bit of road and i knew by how the car behind was acting it wanted to get past. No indicators just passed the car in front
I was going to go, then held back as I seen he was about to move
Yes poor observation by the car, but they seem to both go to overtake at the same time. I did not see the biker indicate either.
In the end this will happen and I hope the biker was ok
Just my view anywho
VidalBaboon said:
If the bike indicated, do you think the outcome would have been any different?
No, but I was more referring to the point above saying that the car didn't indicate.They are both to blame.
Poor observation and a lack of self preservation.
I jaunt into London everyday. I see a flick of the indicator, the driver checks their mirror (because thats the process right) then pull out. Their brains aren't receptive to even notice me. They just glance because thats what they are suppose to do.
Both at fault, but it is always the job of the vehicle behind to get pass safely. The bike has the advantage of continual visibility of the situation by sitting behind. But he was so close to the car in front that when he did pull out he was in the blind spot of the car. It would have been better for him to hang back a little more, pull out for a moment to be visible in the car's mirrors, then go for the pass when he and the driver had 'acknowledged' each other in some way.
The way preached in the car Roadcraft at least is to stay back, pull across into the oncoming lane, then if it's clear, commit to go. Gives you the option to pull back in if you spot something, and a little bit more time for the car in front to see you. Plus on a bike, it's not like you're lacking in performance to get past quickly and safely even with an extra bit of time. Can't say it would have prevented this, but it does show why the "slingshot" overtake can be a really bad idea.
Well that didn't make pleasant watching.
Poor observation on part of the car driver as he should have expected at least one, if not all three bikes to go for an overtake.
HOWEVER, if i was in a performance car and struggling to get past on a winding road, i'd take every opportunity i could. Bikes don't need to wait for the same gap as a car.
The car driver clearly caused the accident through lack of observation as the bike started to overtake first, but the bike should have "read" the situation better and anticipated the car driver might go for an overtake without looking.
Poor observation on part of the car driver as he should have expected at least one, if not all three bikes to go for an overtake.
HOWEVER, if i was in a performance car and struggling to get past on a winding road, i'd take every opportunity i could. Bikes don't need to wait for the same gap as a car.
The car driver clearly caused the accident through lack of observation as the bike started to overtake first, but the bike should have "read" the situation better and anticipated the car driver might go for an overtake without looking.
spareparts said:
Both at fault, but it is always the job of the vehicle behind to get pass safely.
But the car driver was the vehicle behind the vehicle he was overtaking, it was his job to ensure nobody was on his offside when he moved out.The biker should have been more cautious about the overtake, but it was primarily the car drivers fault since he moved into the bikers path.
Maybe the driving theory test would be more effective if it included scenarios like this and asked what mistakes EACH driver made that contributed to the accident.
sjg said:
The way preached in the car Roadcraft at least is to stay back, pull across into the oncoming lane, then if it's clear, commit to go. Gives you the option to pull back in if you spot something, and a little bit more time for the car in front to see you. Plus on a bike, it's not like you're lacking in performance to get past quickly and safely even with an extra bit of time.
OT, but my recently purchased Deauville is useless at this and it's one of a few things that make me think it's dangerous. I've started riding quickly on it and i have to thrash it. It doesn't have the grunt for an overtake like this, which is my preferred method for safety.Gassing Station | Biker Banter | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff