Bikes kill babies - so says BRAKE
Discussion
Road safety? Nope, they are a bunch of sensationalistic prats. 
Chaps, much as I agree with your views on what BRAKE has put forward here, please don't resort to anything that could be interpreted as a threat or which BRAKE will use to denigrate PH and further its own twisted aims. From previous experience we know they are watching...
>> Edited by Mon Ami Mate on Thursday 10th November 07:29
Chaps, much as I agree with your views on what BRAKE has put forward here, please don't resort to anything that could be interpreted as a threat or which BRAKE will use to denigrate PH and further its own twisted aims. From previous experience we know they are watching...
>> Edited by Mon Ami Mate on Thursday 10th November 07:29
what a load of rubbish, ok so lets ban bikes oh and while were at it cars as well,they must have killed a few children in thier time,how about lorries too?and trains,those rails can be dangerous you know, and flying planes arnt 100% safe either in fact lets all roll around in big balls of cotton wool, this is the second most pathetic thing ive read all day,the first been a parking ticket issued by a privite firm wih a PO box number to send the money too which wasnt endorsed by a council and only had a mobile number to call,needless to say he got told to f**k off,brake should be told the same but in a more PC way.
More sensationalist nonsense, with no factual basis. This is right up there with this years bad taste award winner, the scamera partnership crash scene at the NEC bike show. Still, real safety costs the Government money it could spend on propoganda and spin. Nope, there's far too much money to rake in from this line of attack, so don't expect the record to change any time soon. Rather like smoking, scameras and the current "safety campaign" (and I use this phrase with extreme irony) are far too lucrative for the government to ever consider banning them. Nope better to bleed an easy target of more money and spread some more propoganda .... cue BRAKE. 
They might as well say "You will be assimilated" .... I despair!
Steve.
They might as well say "You will be assimilated" .... I despair! Steve.
BliarOut said:
I know, I know, but as a biker, if I deserve to die, then why doesn't any other individual?
Good grief!
BliarOut said:
FFS! Brake's volunteers often comprise people who have lost a loved one in a road accident. Lets show a bit of sensitivity on PH, please.
Moreover, you do realise that PH ended up in the broadsheet press not so long ago, because of a contentious posting about Brake. Journalists and others lurk on PH.
Steve_T said:
Nope better to bleed an easy target of more money and spread some more propoganda .... cue BRAKE.
Actually, it's the other way round. Brake's lobbying targets Government policy through influencing MPs, PR, etc. The best alternative, of course, is to lobby back: time to join the BMF.
>> Edited by Mark_SV on Thursday 10th November 01:20
>> Edited by Mon Ami Mate on Thursday 10th November 07:30
A well balanced and thought out reply Mark. With respect however, if BRAKE continues to spout spiteful nonsense regarding motorcyclists, treating them as no more than lumps of metal, it is hardly likely to have its remarks celebrated within these forums. I am afraid the continual brow-beating of the motorist has left me extremely cynical of the funding of private organisations with conincident agendas to central government these days. You will have to excuse me for this, while I return to the original point.
Motorcyclists being framed as baby killers is an extremely bad joke, at best. Parental responsibility is not mentioned within this discussion so far, but I think it is an over-looked factor. My perspective is that roads is are dangerous places, made more dangerous by people not taking them seriously enough to take obvious steps to reduce risk. Problems are generally easiest solved as early as possible. So, if you have a young child, capable of erratic/unpredictable behaviour, should you allow them near a road on their own. Simple answer no. No debate, no excuses, just plain no. Is it surely better to keep children away from roads without supervision, than it is to rely on a driver being able to avert a crisis. Why take a chance? Would you rather they be 6 inches or 60 yards away from a collision .... To me I'm afraid the answer and cause of many problems in modern society is actually quite simple, responsiblity - either taking it or avoiding it. Those aiming to promote road safety should seek to address problems from all possible angles, not by picking out and attacking one group.
Cheers,
Steve.
P.S. Interesting footnote from a converstion with a German colleague today - if you cause an accident as a result of being a drunken pedestrian in Germany, your driving license can be endorsed.
P.P.S. I hope the above makes sense and you can see what I'm driving at, it's kinda late.
>> Edited by Steve_T on Thursday 10th November 02:09
Motorcyclists being framed as baby killers is an extremely bad joke, at best. Parental responsibility is not mentioned within this discussion so far, but I think it is an over-looked factor. My perspective is that roads is are dangerous places, made more dangerous by people not taking them seriously enough to take obvious steps to reduce risk. Problems are generally easiest solved as early as possible. So, if you have a young child, capable of erratic/unpredictable behaviour, should you allow them near a road on their own. Simple answer no. No debate, no excuses, just plain no. Is it surely better to keep children away from roads without supervision, than it is to rely on a driver being able to avert a crisis. Why take a chance? Would you rather they be 6 inches or 60 yards away from a collision .... To me I'm afraid the answer and cause of many problems in modern society is actually quite simple, responsiblity - either taking it or avoiding it. Those aiming to promote road safety should seek to address problems from all possible angles, not by picking out and attacking one group.
Cheers,
Steve.
P.S. Interesting footnote from a converstion with a German colleague today - if you cause an accident as a result of being a drunken pedestrian in Germany, your driving license can be endorsed.
P.P.S. I hope the above makes sense and you can see what I'm driving at, it's kinda late.
>> Edited by Steve_T on Thursday 10th November 02:09
What bugs me is that these ill informed groups are given a louder voice than gorups like the BMF. Transport 2000 and BRAKE just spout emotive crap - and some of it sticks purely on account of how much they throw.
If you are reading this why not sign up and debate your cause. Make sure you bring facts and not just propaganda.
I may be being insensitive but where were they when little Jonny was hit? Why didn't they drum road safety into him? Roads are dangerous places, not playgrounds.
I have a much younger brother and when we were growing up he found his way out onto a main road. Thankfully a passer by stopped him getting hurt but if he'd been hit by a car my Mum wouldn't have been blaming the driver!
I'm already a member of the BMF - have been for around 6-7 years. I don't go to many of their functions and the magazine can be a bit dull but they deserve every penny of my annual subscription for standing up for our rights.
If you are reading this why not sign up and debate your cause. Make sure you bring facts and not just propaganda.
I may be being insensitive but where were they when little Jonny was hit? Why didn't they drum road safety into him? Roads are dangerous places, not playgrounds.
I have a much younger brother and when we were growing up he found his way out onto a main road. Thankfully a passer by stopped him getting hurt but if he'd been hit by a car my Mum wouldn't have been blaming the driver!
I'm already a member of the BMF - have been for around 6-7 years. I don't go to many of their functions and the magazine can be a bit dull but they deserve every penny of my annual subscription for standing up for our rights.
Mark_SV said:
I know, I know, but as a biker, if I deserve to die, then why doesn't any other individual?
Good grief!
BliarOut said:
FFS! Brake's volunteers often comprise people who have lost a loved one in a road accident. Lets show a bit of sensitivity on PH, please.
Moreover, you do realise that PH ended up in the broadsheet press not so long ago, because of a contentious posting about Brake. Journalists and others lurk on PH.
Steve_T said:
Nope better to bleed an easy target of more money and spread some more propoganda .... cue BRAKE.
Actually, it's the other way round. Brake's lobbying targets Government policy through influencing MPs, PR, etc. The best alternative, of course, is to lobby back: time to join the BMF.
>> Edited by Mark_SV on Thursday 10th November 01:20
>> Edited by Mon Ami Mate on Thursday 10th November 07:30
My comments were contentious, but no more so than those of Brake. If they are a group made up from people who have lost loved ones then it is they who need to start showing some sensitivity. How come my life is suddenly worthless because of my mode of transport? What about the children who I would leave behind should I happen to die riding my bike? Children who I have put good financial plans in place for should I die!
What about the grieving wives and children of motorcyclists who have died on the roads recently, do Brake not care about those families?
I hope the media do run with the story. Brake may have good intentions, but they are dangerously misguided and may undo the good work of all those who have campaigned tirelessly to improve motorcycle safety.
BliarOut said:
My comments were contentious, but no more so than those of Brake.
Your main points are accurate and well made, and most people on here will have a great deal of empathy with this ridiculous, emotive and poorly-researched outburst from Brake. The problem is that PH is the foremost motoring website in the U.K. and is therefore monitored by all sorts of vested interest agencies and journalists, and as a result PH has had serious problems to face over allegations of certain comments made on these pages.
Because of that, it was necessary to edit your post - it's not censorship, it's just commercial interest and self-preservation, so please don't feel it's personal.
>> Edited by nubbin on Thursday 10th November 09:57
Rawwr said:
www.brake.org.uk/index.php?p=84
I'm not sure why I found that particularly amusing.
What I find amusing is the fact that one of the corporate donors is the "Co-Operative Funeral Society"
nubbin said:
My comments were contentious, but no more so than those of Brake.
Your main points are accurate and well made, and most people on here will have a great deal of empathy with this ridiculous, emotive and poorly-researched outburst from Brake. The problem is that PH is the foremost motoring website in the U.K. and is therefore monitored by all sorts of vested interest agencies and journalists, and as a result PH has had serious problems to face over allegations of certain comments made on these pages.
Because of that, it was necessary to edit your post - it's not censorship, it's just commercial interest and self-preservation, so please don't feel it's personal.
>> Edited by nubbin on Thursday 10th November 09:57
No worries, I don't take it personally, hence my reply in moderated but forthright terms. I know PH is Ted's baby and I respect it as that, hence no dummies or toys on the floor
What worries me is that there are plenty of people receptive to this type of fiction and for many of them it will counteract the "think bike" message making life even more difficult and dangerous for those of us that rely on a bike for our daily transport.
For any BRAKE people reading... I have never killed anyone on my bike, I ride responsibly and while I accept that my mode of transport is more dangerous than a car if it was as dangerous as you make out I wouldn't ride it. Your message is a lie and what's worse it's devisive in it's attempts to make us look like child killers and potentially the message could make riding a bike even more dangerous than it is. You should be utterly ashamed of yourselves.
Mark
For any BRAKE people reading... I have never killed anyone on my bike, I ride responsibly and while I accept that my mode of transport is more dangerous than a car if it was as dangerous as you make out I wouldn't ride it. Your message is a lie and what's worse it's devisive in it's attempts to make us look like child killers and potentially the message could make riding a bike even more dangerous than it is. You should be utterly ashamed of yourselves.
Mark
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