Clutchless changes

[Distant]

I passed my DAS a couple of months ago and got myself a zx6r within a couple of weeks. Now I've been pottering around and steadily building up my confidence and am now happy giving it the beans, in a straight line at least...(Still crap on the corners though)

I was chatting to a mate the other day and he informs me "everyone" does clutchless changes up the box when giving it some. How many people do this and will it destroy my gearbox/clutch?

Cheers

[HRG]

Perfectly normal. I often find clutchless up changes smoother than using the clutch on a modern bike. Just back off the throttle a little with your foot applying slight upward pressure and it'll change before you've even had time to think about it.

[Stu R]

all the time, nothing wrong with it.

just put a bit of pressure on the shifter with your foot, shut the throttle and it'll change, straight back on the throttle

[WestYorkie]

I do clutchless upchanges when I'm carrying a pillion as I find them smoother. Yet that is only when I'm plodding along.
When I'm giving it some beans and change without the clutch I end up getting headbutted.

Maybe why I prefer riding alone .

[Carl-H]

I have done it on my current bike but if the last time I did (few weeks back now) it fell out of gear a few times and 16500rpm is not nice lol. Now I just change with the clutch and to be honest doubt I would be much quicker changing without it. Hasn't dropped out of gear since I stopped clutch less shifting.

[EvoBarry]

I'll change up without clutch if I'm making progress, but tend to use the clutch for pottering about to keep things smooth, depends entirely on the situation tbh. The bike doesn't seem to be upset by it either

[Stu R]

Carl-H said:

I have done it on my current bike but if the last time I did (few weeks back now) it fell out of gear a few times and 16500rpm is not nice lol. Now I just change with the clutch and to be honest doubt I would be much quicker changing without it. Hasn't dropped out of gear since I stopped clutch less shifting.

try more pressure with your foot if it's not going straight in, either that or you're not off the throttle enough, either ways a well executed clutchless upkick should be way faster than a clutched one in most situations.

Most bikes don't like it below certain revs, but I've yet to find a bike that doesn't like it at full bore.

[Carl-H]

Stu R said:

Carl-H said:

I have done it on my current bike but if the last time I did (few weeks back now) it fell out of gear a few times and 16500rpm is not nice lol. Now I just change with the clutch and to be honest doubt I would be much quicker changing without it. Hasn't dropped out of gear since I stopped clutch less shifting.

try more pressure with your foot if it's not going straight in, either that or you're not off the throttle enough, either ways a well executed clutchless upkick should be way faster than a clutched one in most situations.

Most bikes don't like it below certain revs, but I've yet to find a bike that doesn't like it at full bore.

It doesn't jump out straight away though, I could have taken a few corners and then be on the throttle for a while and then it will fall out. It does prefer changing at higher revs though. It seems really notchy and stiff at low revs. It may be a little bit quicker but I'm not too fussed about making up time on the road and it is 15 years old as well.

[StevRS]

I was going to post a very similar question to this...

Does it increase wear on the gearbox or harm the bike in any way?

Obviously there's less wear on the clutch doing it this way

[Aubrey]

I always change up without the clutch, weather I'm nailing it or not. It's much smoother, but you have must ease off the throttle, same as you would if usign a clutch, then straight back on the power. Havn't noticed any detrimental effects with the gearbox, all very sweet and tight

[dern]

StevRS said:

Obviously there's less wear on the clutch doing it this way

I think there's more actually. If you use the clutch you can match engine speed whereas if you don't use the clutch the clutch plates will 'skid' to accomodate the slow down of the engine while maintaining wheel speed.

[B15TT0]

Clutchless change all the time when pressing on. Much smoother and faster when the revs are up.

Having said that, it does feel more natural on some bikes than others. I've always owned Suzukis and they seem to love it (good gearboxes?) whereas on the BMW GS I hired and the Triumph Bonneville it wasn't quite as sweet.

Helps if you're hunched over the tank, your bum in the air and fantasies of being Vale in your head too!

[Aubrey]

Just to clarify, I always use the clutch when changing 'down' the gears, but not when changing 'up' the gears.

[denisb]

See the following link for Hewland's (race car gearbox manufacturer) view on how to change gear -

http://www.hewland.com/svga/help.htm

I apply this to my bike (up AND down shifts when trying) and my race car (ditto, H pattern Hewland dog box). In fact it's almost impossible to change gear in the race car any other way.

As for gearbox damage. If you have a smooth quick shift it will do less damage to the dogs than a slow crunchy one. Whether you find it easier to do this with or without a clutch is up to rider preference and the particular gearbox.

[Distant]

Thanks for all the responses guys. It seems as though this is the norm and I'll be trying a few changes up the box without the clutch next time I'm out for a blat.

[MarkRSi]

Well I just gave it a try tonight when riding home on the ER-6N after reading this. Wasn't terribly smooth though (I'm sure I backed off the throttle, plus I couldn't get into 6th from 5th), do I just need more practice or don't Kawasakis like clutchless changes?

[Carl-H]

You will find that the lever will not move until you shut off. Put a bit of pressure on it and when you shut off it will slide in. That's how I used to do it.

[sprinter885]

I've never bothered with clutchless changes. For some reason-probably programmed in habit- I prefer to clutch up the box. I reckon it gives me the timing to nick the gear in & I've never found it "un-smooth", except in 1st-2nd gears but it seems clutchless is less effective at low revs anyway??

Can't help but feel it can't do clutch & cogs any good over time. Do bike gears have synchromesh??

[HRG]

sprinter885 said:

I've never bothered with clutchless changes. For some reason-probably programmed in habit- I prefer to clutch up the box. I reckon it gives me the timing to nick the gear in & I've never found it "un-smooth", except in 1st-2nd gears but it seems clutchless is less effective at low revs anyway??

Can't help but feel it can't do clutch & cogs any good over time. Do bike gears have synchromesh??

Yup, all modern bikes are fully synchromeshed. Clutchless changes work better if you're "pressing on" The secret is to feel the gearlever through your toes. You don't force it to change, it'll just snick in all on it's own with light pressure if you get it right.

Thinking about it, it could well be that the momentum from your acceleration unloads the gearbox through the chain if you're getting a move on. Just a random made up thought, but it could well be why it works best.

[smack]

StevRS said:

I was going to post a very similar question to this...

Does it increase wear on the gearbox or harm the bike in any way?

Obviously there's less wear on the clutch doing it this way

I would guess if you get it wrong, it would wear the gears faster.

But 80% of the time I upshift clutchless (didn't help that my clutch cable was giving so much resistance, that my hand would start to hurt, so I would use the clutch less and less), and my gsxr is just about to reach it's 40k birthday and everything is fine!

As most people will sell, have stolen, or crash their bikes before getting anywhere near that mileage, you have very little to worry about IMHO.