Didn't complete my CBT
Discussion
Yes, I know you can't fail a CBT, hence my title!
By way of background - been driving a car for about 20 years, a manual for probably 6 years and then automatic for the last 14 or so year.
Wanted to do a CBT to learn for pleasure (so no real pressure on me).
Decided to do manual as I assumed it would give me more options later. As it happens the bike I want is a Honda Rebel 500 which is manual but the Rebel 1000 does come in automatic (but its more than I want to spend)
If it sounds like I am blaming my Instructor below, it is because I am but I also accept I wasn't competent.
Chose a school that are quite big/popular/well reviewed in my area.
So turn up just before 9am. The other two people are from abroad and I sense they are learning to be delivery drivers. It was clear from the off there would be minor language barriers between the instructor and the other two students. In fact the first question I was asked was whether I speak English so I assume they get a lot of clients who are from abroad and doing delivery driving etc on a moped.
I asked how long the day would be and instructor says it can be 9 to 2 or it can be 9 to 6 - all depends on the students - but then goes on to say he has to leave by 3 so if any extra training is needed it will be on another day. I should add it was cold and raining and we are in a shipping container - whilst none of this is critical, the mood wasn't very positive.
The other thing to mention was that he said as he can only take 2 on the road at a time we would have to go person A and B first, then A and C, and then C and B. Meaning the road test would take 3 hours and two of the students would have to wait for an hour. The relevance of this is that the off road training would be completed by 12 to allow for those 3 hours.
I was told beforehand that I had to bring boots and jeans. The only boots I have are cheap and nasty steel toe cap ones work provide - they are very clunky. The Instructor said I may have problems with them as I would struggle to control the clutch without having the right feel (and TBF he was definitely right). After signing a disclaimer he let me ride with my trainers on. One of the other guys turned up in tracksuit bottoms and was allowed to ride in them. I didn't want to buy gear in advance in case I didn't want to proceed.
So we start in the classroom and spend about 10-15 mins talking about gear. He mentions if a helmet is dropped it should be binned.
We then go outside to the training area. Best way to describe it is a tarmac tennis court in a school - but a bit wider. It is split into two as there are DAS trainers on one half.
The other two students are riding automatic scooters and I have a Yamaha - not sure exactly what - maybe a YBR - but I think it was 125cc.
We then start the process of learning controls etc .We started practicing straight lines. I had some problems balancing the bike and ended up dropping it (whilst stationary) and ended up under it.
I then started started getting the hang of the bike but I think I over think things and started to make mistakes - for example when braking, using the throttle at the same time. Or braking but not pulling the clutch.
I had problems mastering the clutch and I felt like not enough time was given for me to just properly go back and forth in gear 1. The instructor kept telling me to change gear and prove I could do it but it felt very rushed. Being on a small practice area didn't help.
I also felt like I was holding things up as the other two were progressing well. TBF the instructor did give me some extra goes for extra practice here and there.
We then move onto doing stuff like figure of 8, U Turns, turning left and right.
The other two were easily doing what they needed to do driving wise but he was getting a bit annoyed at them for not following instructions (e.g. road positions when to turn etc).
The final thing was the emergency stop. The big problem I had here was he wanted me to get up to speed/gear change but I didn't feel confident in going fast because the length of the 'road' was not long and I was concerned about going too fast when I know I had difficulty braking properly - I could end up hitting the fence.
After this we had a discussion - he said he wasn't confident for me to go onto the road and I said I wasn't confident either as I hadn't mastered the clutch. Personally I feel like I need a day on just doing clutch and braking. I asked if they did pay as you go one on one sessions but he said no.
The other two had gone in for their Highway Code/safety learning and I heard the instructor tell them they would not be allowed out on the road if they could not understand. I also heard him talk to another instructor about his frustration with having too many foreign students on one course as it is hard work (we had another foreign student who turned up too late and was not allowed on the course). The point I am making here is that he was probably frustrated with me not learning fast enough and the other two not following instructions.
It is now around 11 or 11.15 - so the off road training was a max of 2 hours. The actual driving time was maybe 60-90 mins max.
TBF the instructor says that if another instructor can do the class learning with the two other trainees, he will let me just ride around and practice the clutch issue. I then spent a few mins riding around the entire site (the DAS people were gone) - so I was able to practice a bit more at speed - albeit as I was going around in circles I had to keep slowing down/up. I then misjudged the turning circle and ended up outside the cones on a slippery area where dirt had built up and ended up going down quite heavily. Mud all down my jeans but they didn't rip. When I got home though I did have a graze on the side of my knee, I guess from skin to knee contact.
Then we have a chat and I say I've had enough. TBF to the instructor, he agrees to let me practice on the automatic scooter and if I can do the turns etc I can join the road test. I have a go and it is SO much easier. But my mind is a bit frazzled from everything else and I am not controlling the throttle properly and my turns are not great that I just say I've had enough for the day.
So all that considered, I think on one hand I should just count myself lucky that I have been under a bike twice and walked away. Say I have had a go and leave it at that. One the other hand I feel I should complete the CBT at least as a challenge, probably with another school and maybe with some 1 to 1 coaching. On my third hand I am thinking maybe do the CBT but just on the auto as it will make like so much easier and in reality, in the long run, I would probably settle on an auto anyway.
Having come home and reflected on it, I do feel the learning portion was too short. Many online websites suggest 5 or 6 hours learning before you get onto the road. My concern with going back and doing a CBT is ending up in the same situation again where its all rushed. I'd probably prefer 1 to 1 training.
The other thing with a manual is that I was so focussed on gears/braking that all the other usual driving stuff like mirror checks were almost out the window.
Injury wise, my shoulder is hurting from shoulder barging the tarmac and knee has a graze. Body generally feels a bit battered.
It is utterly baffling to me that a 16/17 year old can spend hours on a CBT and then be out on the road without any other sort of testing or training. I accept others can get a hold of the controls much quicker than I can, but still...it sounds too short of a time in my view, particularly with all the other road stuff going on you have to deal with.
By way of background - been driving a car for about 20 years, a manual for probably 6 years and then automatic for the last 14 or so year.
Wanted to do a CBT to learn for pleasure (so no real pressure on me).
Decided to do manual as I assumed it would give me more options later. As it happens the bike I want is a Honda Rebel 500 which is manual but the Rebel 1000 does come in automatic (but its more than I want to spend)
If it sounds like I am blaming my Instructor below, it is because I am but I also accept I wasn't competent.
Chose a school that are quite big/popular/well reviewed in my area.
So turn up just before 9am. The other two people are from abroad and I sense they are learning to be delivery drivers. It was clear from the off there would be minor language barriers between the instructor and the other two students. In fact the first question I was asked was whether I speak English so I assume they get a lot of clients who are from abroad and doing delivery driving etc on a moped.
I asked how long the day would be and instructor says it can be 9 to 2 or it can be 9 to 6 - all depends on the students - but then goes on to say he has to leave by 3 so if any extra training is needed it will be on another day. I should add it was cold and raining and we are in a shipping container - whilst none of this is critical, the mood wasn't very positive.
The other thing to mention was that he said as he can only take 2 on the road at a time we would have to go person A and B first, then A and C, and then C and B. Meaning the road test would take 3 hours and two of the students would have to wait for an hour. The relevance of this is that the off road training would be completed by 12 to allow for those 3 hours.
I was told beforehand that I had to bring boots and jeans. The only boots I have are cheap and nasty steel toe cap ones work provide - they are very clunky. The Instructor said I may have problems with them as I would struggle to control the clutch without having the right feel (and TBF he was definitely right). After signing a disclaimer he let me ride with my trainers on. One of the other guys turned up in tracksuit bottoms and was allowed to ride in them. I didn't want to buy gear in advance in case I didn't want to proceed.
So we start in the classroom and spend about 10-15 mins talking about gear. He mentions if a helmet is dropped it should be binned.
We then go outside to the training area. Best way to describe it is a tarmac tennis court in a school - but a bit wider. It is split into two as there are DAS trainers on one half.
The other two students are riding automatic scooters and I have a Yamaha - not sure exactly what - maybe a YBR - but I think it was 125cc.
We then start the process of learning controls etc .We started practicing straight lines. I had some problems balancing the bike and ended up dropping it (whilst stationary) and ended up under it.
I then started started getting the hang of the bike but I think I over think things and started to make mistakes - for example when braking, using the throttle at the same time. Or braking but not pulling the clutch.
I had problems mastering the clutch and I felt like not enough time was given for me to just properly go back and forth in gear 1. The instructor kept telling me to change gear and prove I could do it but it felt very rushed. Being on a small practice area didn't help.
I also felt like I was holding things up as the other two were progressing well. TBF the instructor did give me some extra goes for extra practice here and there.
We then move onto doing stuff like figure of 8, U Turns, turning left and right.
The other two were easily doing what they needed to do driving wise but he was getting a bit annoyed at them for not following instructions (e.g. road positions when to turn etc).
The final thing was the emergency stop. The big problem I had here was he wanted me to get up to speed/gear change but I didn't feel confident in going fast because the length of the 'road' was not long and I was concerned about going too fast when I know I had difficulty braking properly - I could end up hitting the fence.
After this we had a discussion - he said he wasn't confident for me to go onto the road and I said I wasn't confident either as I hadn't mastered the clutch. Personally I feel like I need a day on just doing clutch and braking. I asked if they did pay as you go one on one sessions but he said no.
The other two had gone in for their Highway Code/safety learning and I heard the instructor tell them they would not be allowed out on the road if they could not understand. I also heard him talk to another instructor about his frustration with having too many foreign students on one course as it is hard work (we had another foreign student who turned up too late and was not allowed on the course). The point I am making here is that he was probably frustrated with me not learning fast enough and the other two not following instructions.
It is now around 11 or 11.15 - so the off road training was a max of 2 hours. The actual driving time was maybe 60-90 mins max.
TBF the instructor says that if another instructor can do the class learning with the two other trainees, he will let me just ride around and practice the clutch issue. I then spent a few mins riding around the entire site (the DAS people were gone) - so I was able to practice a bit more at speed - albeit as I was going around in circles I had to keep slowing down/up. I then misjudged the turning circle and ended up outside the cones on a slippery area where dirt had built up and ended up going down quite heavily. Mud all down my jeans but they didn't rip. When I got home though I did have a graze on the side of my knee, I guess from skin to knee contact.
Then we have a chat and I say I've had enough. TBF to the instructor, he agrees to let me practice on the automatic scooter and if I can do the turns etc I can join the road test. I have a go and it is SO much easier. But my mind is a bit frazzled from everything else and I am not controlling the throttle properly and my turns are not great that I just say I've had enough for the day.
So all that considered, I think on one hand I should just count myself lucky that I have been under a bike twice and walked away. Say I have had a go and leave it at that. One the other hand I feel I should complete the CBT at least as a challenge, probably with another school and maybe with some 1 to 1 coaching. On my third hand I am thinking maybe do the CBT but just on the auto as it will make like so much easier and in reality, in the long run, I would probably settle on an auto anyway.
Having come home and reflected on it, I do feel the learning portion was too short. Many online websites suggest 5 or 6 hours learning before you get onto the road. My concern with going back and doing a CBT is ending up in the same situation again where its all rushed. I'd probably prefer 1 to 1 training.
The other thing with a manual is that I was so focussed on gears/braking that all the other usual driving stuff like mirror checks were almost out the window.
Injury wise, my shoulder is hurting from shoulder barging the tarmac and knee has a graze. Body generally feels a bit battered.
It is utterly baffling to me that a 16/17 year old can spend hours on a CBT and then be out on the road without any other sort of testing or training. I accept others can get a hold of the controls much quicker than I can, but still...it sounds too short of a time in my view, particularly with all the other road stuff going on you have to deal with.
Edited by Mojooo on Sunday 28th April 14:25
If I go again it will definitely be at a different school. Everything was just too rushed on this course.
I can ride a normal push bike. I think what happened was that the bike I had was a bit heavier than I imagined and I stalled it very early on and let it tip - hopefully that won't happen again as I know what to expect.
I think there are quite long waiting times now as well so it gives me time to chew on it.
I can ride a normal push bike. I think what happened was that the bike I had was a bit heavier than I imagined and I stalled it very early on and let it tip - hopefully that won't happen again as I know what to expect.
I think there are quite long waiting times now as well so it gives me time to chew on it.
JJ55 said:
Factualist said:
Do your CBT on an auto, then book yourself in for a geared motorcycle lesson, then go straight for DAS. It's what I did.
This. Schools near me teach this way if you haven’t been on a bike before. The moped lets you pick up the basic skills and balance quicker. Then once you’ve got your certificate you do a 1 hr geared lesson on a bike. s2kjock said:
Lots to learn in a short space of time, but worth it, so if you are still interested give it another go, treat it as an "experience day" rather than a "must pass" event, and by the sounds of it, find a better school.
Yes that's pretty much my way of looking at it - its a day out trying something different.I've booked an automatic CBT for a few weeks.
So I went back to do my CBT today at a different school.
The difference in instruction was massive - much more relaxed and much more detailed. Just proves what a shambles the last teacher was. My instructor mentioned the first school was known as were a high throughput organisation.
Nicer weather helped as did better quality helmet, gloves etc.
There were 4 of us this time - 2 guys who had ridden bikes abroad in their home country and one guy with an expired CBT. I was doing auto and they were all doing manual.
The venue was also much bigger and felt less cramped.
I calculated that last time we started around 9.30 on the bikes and were finished something like 11.15 or 11.30. So we had 2 hours on the bike - maybe 2 hours 15 max
Today we had about 4 hours and we didn't even finish.
So my past experience definitely helped jumping straight on the auto. Oddly I found clutch control on the manual a bit easier to ride slowly because with the auto it felt hard to find the right point on the throttle - either nothing happened or I went to fast. The brake was also very responsive with little travel so balancing the brake and throttle was quite hard
Managed to do a straight line, figure of 8 was ok, wobbled a bit, did the U turn.
We then had to do a stop at a line. I never managed to get this perfect - either I would brake too early and finish to far away from the line (even 40-50cm was too much as someone could walk past in front of you) or I would press both brakes but still be twisting the throttle a little. So I was told I needed to come back and finish on another day as was the guy who had done his CBT. I don't know what happened to the other two but they must have run out of time as well as it was too late to do the road test.
So I am frustrated I haven't mastered the bike. But when I actually add up all the riding time, it still probably only adds up to maybe 15minutes combined. What I really need is 4 or 5 hours on my own in a car park just to master the machine.
Not sure what to do now.
The trainer says he has a high standard and won't just sign anyone off (i.e. the line exercise would be fine in real life IMO because if you stop short you just move forward a little or 99% of the time it won't even matter).
I could spend another £80 or whatever and go back and do more training...risk is that I may not make the mustard if the standard is high.
Or I could look at getting a bike and practicing on private land to master the bike skills first.
I am 99% sure I can master the bike, I just need time.
Instructor also suggested I didn't buy my own bike after CBT and practice if I wanted to do the full test as he says people pick up bad habits. I have flip flopped on this a few times!
Instructor did mention I was an over thinker and things I was doing OK earlier were then going backwards after lunch which can happen when people become overloaded.
Overall, not the best day but not the worst. I think I am a bit tainted by the last experience. If today was my first ever experience then I'd be back to carry on no problem and that is probably what I'll do...its another day out.
The difference in instruction was massive - much more relaxed and much more detailed. Just proves what a shambles the last teacher was. My instructor mentioned the first school was known as were a high throughput organisation.
Nicer weather helped as did better quality helmet, gloves etc.
There were 4 of us this time - 2 guys who had ridden bikes abroad in their home country and one guy with an expired CBT. I was doing auto and they were all doing manual.
The venue was also much bigger and felt less cramped.
I calculated that last time we started around 9.30 on the bikes and were finished something like 11.15 or 11.30. So we had 2 hours on the bike - maybe 2 hours 15 max
Today we had about 4 hours and we didn't even finish.
So my past experience definitely helped jumping straight on the auto. Oddly I found clutch control on the manual a bit easier to ride slowly because with the auto it felt hard to find the right point on the throttle - either nothing happened or I went to fast. The brake was also very responsive with little travel so balancing the brake and throttle was quite hard
Managed to do a straight line, figure of 8 was ok, wobbled a bit, did the U turn.
We then had to do a stop at a line. I never managed to get this perfect - either I would brake too early and finish to far away from the line (even 40-50cm was too much as someone could walk past in front of you) or I would press both brakes but still be twisting the throttle a little. So I was told I needed to come back and finish on another day as was the guy who had done his CBT. I don't know what happened to the other two but they must have run out of time as well as it was too late to do the road test.
So I am frustrated I haven't mastered the bike. But when I actually add up all the riding time, it still probably only adds up to maybe 15minutes combined. What I really need is 4 or 5 hours on my own in a car park just to master the machine.
Not sure what to do now.
The trainer says he has a high standard and won't just sign anyone off (i.e. the line exercise would be fine in real life IMO because if you stop short you just move forward a little or 99% of the time it won't even matter).
I could spend another £80 or whatever and go back and do more training...risk is that I may not make the mustard if the standard is high.
Or I could look at getting a bike and practicing on private land to master the bike skills first.
I am 99% sure I can master the bike, I just need time.
Instructor also suggested I didn't buy my own bike after CBT and practice if I wanted to do the full test as he says people pick up bad habits. I have flip flopped on this a few times!
Instructor did mention I was an over thinker and things I was doing OK earlier were then going backwards after lunch which can happen when people become overloaded.
Overall, not the best day but not the worst. I think I am a bit tainted by the last experience. If today was my first ever experience then I'd be back to carry on no problem and that is probably what I'll do...its another day out.
I am a bit torn on whether to just buy a 125cc now anyway.
I was thinking of buying a 125cc bike anyway so I could practice and then decide whether to do the main test but I know there is a lot of difference of views on this. If I did buy one, I wouldn't really be losing out on anything in theory as I'd be buying one after the CBT anyway..
If I did get my CBT I'd be a bit concerned about spending a grand on doing the test without having more practice anyway.
I was thinking of buying a 125cc bike anyway so I could practice and then decide whether to do the main test but I know there is a lot of difference of views on this. If I did buy one, I wouldn't really be losing out on anything in theory as I'd be buying one after the CBT anyway..
If I did get my CBT I'd be a bit concerned about spending a grand on doing the test without having more practice anyway.
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