B-b-ber BREMBOS!
Discussion
Sardonicus said:
ep should have mentioned this earlier too thats an odd thread even in M12 terms, I found out while making up my kit and then talking to Alex he piped up a couple of days later stating the same gotcha to which I replied "I know I found out" I forgot to mention purely because I have had mine about 12 months and still not on the car ..... yet
Buggeroids, just realised I should have snagged four M12 x 1.75 Nylock nuts today 
Fortunately the nice Mr Phased has confirmed he has the common M12 x 1.75 tap on site.
Until tomorrow
Sardonicus said:
ep should have mentioned this earlier too thats an odd thread even in M12 terms, I found out while making up my kit and then talking to Alex he piped up a couple of days later stating the same gotcha to which I replied "I know I found out" I forgot to mention purely because I have had mine about 12 months and still not on the car ..... yet
Neither are mine yet! 
Phil
Well the B-b-ber Brembos are on, a massive thanks goes to Phased for letting me use his ramp.
The spacers I bought needed re-engineering
and the studs that came with them were the course spline rather than the fine Ford spline used by TVR
The Oldphonebloke bracket kit comes with spacers and a handful of washers, the brackets themselves can be fitted in two ways but as we discovered only one way is correct
As it turns out the spacers offered in the kit weren't needed and given there are no instructions whatsoever these spacers are a bit confusing, stamping "TOP" or an arrow into the brackets wouldn't go a miss either.
What we found was four thin M12 0.5mm shim washers (one for each M12 bolt) was all that we needed. With the brackets the right way up and the 0.5mm shim washers in place the whole thing bolted together with perfect and even caliper spacing to the discs.
Finally I found you could probably cut an M12 thread into the two mounting holes without drilling, but I didn't fancy shearing a super hard tap in the hub especially as it was the only M12 tap we had, so I did bring the holes out fractionally but it was more of a ream than a drilling.
Cast iron is never the best material to tap, there are certainly better metals to cut a nice clean thread into but the end result was acceptable and safe. A smear of thread lock and a check with the torque wrench and my new Brembo calipers are going nowhere!
Brakes bled, wheels and spacers in place, and my 16" Imola front wheels spinning freely I took a quick blat up the Phased test track then back again for a wheel re-torque. All that remained was to bed the pads in on the run home, they certainly got better and better with every test application as I slowed the car rapidly from speed five of six times on a clear M25.
Today I did further 200 miles on my new brakes and they're now revealing their true power, what I like best of all is their progressive OEM feel.
To be fair my old standard calipers needed a compete overhaul, they were sticking on their sliders so hanging on fractionally and generally performing very poorly.
So I've gone from the very tired standard single piston calipers that were half gripping 260mm discs, to a set of completely overhauled four piston Brembos clamping down hard on giant 324mm discs.
The term "Night & Day" springs to mind
The spacers I bought needed re-engineering
and the studs that came with them were the course spline rather than the fine Ford spline used by TVR The Oldphonebloke bracket kit comes with spacers and a handful of washers, the brackets themselves can be fitted in two ways but as we discovered only one way is correct
As it turns out the spacers offered in the kit weren't needed and given there are no instructions whatsoever these spacers are a bit confusing, stamping "TOP" or an arrow into the brackets wouldn't go a miss either.
What we found was four thin M12 0.5mm shim washers (one for each M12 bolt) was all that we needed. With the brackets the right way up and the 0.5mm shim washers in place the whole thing bolted together with perfect and even caliper spacing to the discs.
Finally I found you could probably cut an M12 thread into the two mounting holes without drilling, but I didn't fancy shearing a super hard tap in the hub especially as it was the only M12 tap we had, so I did bring the holes out fractionally but it was more of a ream than a drilling.
Cast iron is never the best material to tap, there are certainly better metals to cut a nice clean thread into but the end result was acceptable and safe. A smear of thread lock and a check with the torque wrench and my new Brembo calipers are going nowhere!
Brakes bled, wheels and spacers in place, and my 16" Imola front wheels spinning freely I took a quick blat up the Phased test track then back again for a wheel re-torque. All that remained was to bed the pads in on the run home, they certainly got better and better with every test application as I slowed the car rapidly from speed five of six times on a clear M25.
Today I did further 200 miles on my new brakes and they're now revealing their true power, what I like best of all is their progressive OEM feel.
To be fair my old standard calipers needed a compete overhaul, they were sticking on their sliders so hanging on fractionally and generally performing very poorly.
So I've gone from the very tired standard single piston calipers that were half gripping 260mm discs, to a set of completely overhauled four piston Brembos clamping down hard on giant 324mm discs.
The term "Night & Day" springs to mind
rigga said:
Told you they were good.
Fekin awesome mate 
We all like to focus on making our cars go faster, so it comes as quite a surprise when you realise the truth is making them stop better is really where it's at. A couple of grand buys you some better heads that will give you 50hp t best, a set of Brembos will likely cost you a quarter of that and on the right road may well give you the greater advantage.
My Brembos cost me £600 and I'm starting to think it could be the best £600 I've spent on the car so far. Powerful and progressive, these brakes inspire massive confidence which makes you way faster because you can hold onto your speed for longer and brake much much later. I thought the car would move about more, I thought these mega brakes may unsettle the balance, but the reality is the polar opposite, I feel safer and more relaxed which means without consciously thinking about it my pace naturally goes up.
Today I completed a 200 mile run which including one moment where I had to proper lean on my new stoppers hauling the car down from 106 leptons to 40, boy what brakes
. But feeling very impressed with my new Brembo setup it all came together on my favourite 3 mile stretch of winding country road between Harefield & my house, with my trust in the new anchors now strong I gave them a little back lane work out 
With the dark road ahead lit with my perfected LED lights and now with brakes that inspire massive confidence, 'Ol Gasbag' positively devoured this short but sweet path to pleasure and has finally become what I'd call a proper A-B back road weapon
A big thanks from me to everyone who helped me with the Brembo mod, especially the very patient Phased who really is a super generous chap and a true credit to the TVR community
I chucked these on and didn't have any problems
Currently 36% off
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Hub-Centric-4-x-108-63-4...
Currently 36% off
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Hub-Centric-4-x-108-63-4...
Andav469 said:
Glad your pleased Dave.
Just to give a visual of the change, this is my 324mm disc against the standard 500 disc, so your upgrade, is even greater
A lot of people assume the brakes on a 4.0 litre car are smaller than the 5.0 litre cars, this is of course not true at all. Just to give a visual of the change, this is my 324mm disc against the standard 500 disc, so your upgrade, is even greater
Early 4.0 litre Chimaeras did indeed have smaller brakes than early 5.0 litre cars but this didn't last long as by mid/late 1996 all Chimaeras had the same 260mm front and 273mm vented rear disc setup irrespective of engine size, my part facelift late 96 4.0 litre being one of the first to benefit from what you might call early 5.0 litre brakes that went on to become simply Mk2 Chimaera brakes that were used across the board.
In 1996 TVR simply consolidated the braking system across all Chimaera models which I'm sure made complete sense on the production line, the smaller front discs and non-vented rear setup were ditched completely which looking at the tiny dimensions of the things was a very good idea indeed, lets not forget that even a standard 4.0 litre car is easily capable of exceeding 150mph.
On the subject of spacers I didn't like the way the hub centric ones I'd ordered sat in my wheels, not sure how but somehow I ended up with the wrong kit, my recommendation to other's doing this conversion is to measure up carefully and call the spacer supplier to make sure you get the right spacers that fit correctly and tell them you want fine spline studs too.
Putting a "bits-N-bobs" kit of parts together yourself is all well and good but you do need to make sure everything is spot on and fully understood before you blunder in and press "buy it now" on FleaBay.
The minor lessons learned and put aside for a minute this Brembo brake conversion is absolutely fantastic, and if you don't want to fit used brakes to your car I discovered Brembo still make these fantastic four piston calipers. They come from the Brembo Gran Tourismo range and can be purchased for an eye watering £1,500 a set, this is because they are an OEM quality product so in truth are worth every penny of the £1,500.
Your other option is to buy them used from Ferrari breakers because they were fitted to the 200 MPH 1,800kg 550 Maranello, 360 & 430 moodels as well as all Masserati models of the same period, or alternatively as we all know now you can source the very same calipers from an E38 7/8 series BMW and save yourself a small fortune.
It certainly seems the exact same thing painted red with a Ferrari sticker on it is worth four times the price
I paid £160 for my set, but then a further £150 for a thorough professional inspection by a brake expert, a pressure & dust seal kit, two new pistons (broken by and undisclosed by the seller in his listing), a full flush (found to be full of grit!!), reassembly and final pressure test on Godspeed's pressure rig. You might be able to do things cheaper than me but personally I didn't fancy trusting my life to the fact some random Ebayer promised me he's refurbished my brakes.
My old Ford stoppers were totally shot, I estimated having these old knackerd calipers professionally refurbished would have cost me in the region of £300 including a set of new discs & pads. So using good old man maths the £600 I spent on this upgrade was really just £300. But even at £600 these Brembo brakes are worth every single penny, indeed I'd happily put them up against any of the after market big brake kits offered for our cars at twice that price.
As it stands I like to think I've given 'Ol Gasbag' Ferrari 430 brakes for £300, and when you say it like that it's the bargain of the century!
Highly recommended
Alexdaredevils said:
I chucked these on and didn't have any problems
Currently 36% off
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Hub-Centric-4-x-108-63-4...
Just be careful with the links chaps, these look like 16mm spacers to me and you actually only need 10mm thick spacers to easily clear the Brembo calipers on 16" Imola front wheels like mine.Currently 36% off
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Hub-Centric-4-x-108-63-4...
Do make sure you check the hub-centric lip diameter against your specific wheel centre hole with a set of vernier gauges as different wheels IE... Imolas, Estorils, or other after market alloys may have slightly different diameter wheel hole centres.
Also make certain you are getting fine spline studs as a lot of these kits are sold with coarse spline studs.
Hub-centric spacers are a good idea but plain 10mm spacers will do the job just fine as the hub-centric lip on the TVR hub should protrude enough to give the same wheel centring effect.
Personally I'm not a huge fan of Carlos Fandango wheel spacers full stop as they are not an engineering solution to anything, more of a Max-Power add on used by spotty youfs who know nothing about the effects these things may be having in the steering and suspension geometry.
Steering and suspension geometry is of course a serious science in itself and knowing this I've avoided wheel spacers leaving them to the boy racers to fit on their silly shopping cars with ridiculous body kits.
Unfortunately they are a necessary evil on this conversion and are used to ensure my 16" Imola front wheels clear my super new Brembo calipers, and by rights to keep the same relationship between the front and rear track you'll need to be fitting four spacers of the same depth.
I'm currently only running front spacers because that's just how the job ended late on Saturday afternoon. I calculated I've only increased my front track by 1.5% so I've decided to run the car like this to see how it feels, early indications re it makes fek all difference, indeed the steering and handling feels absolutely spot on still.
I suspect there are more pressing problems with the steering and suspension geometry of a Chimaera, the geometry forced on the car by the use of a front hub/upright originally designed for a family car using a McPherson strut (then adapted by TVR for wishbones) being a key case in point!
My advise on spacers is to be careful blindly following well meaning links posted on these pages.
My recommendation is to measure twice, phone the supplier, and order once!
This is the only way to be 100% sure you're buying the right thing and not just wasting your money
Edited by ChimpOnGas on Tuesday 22 March 08:57
Sorry to be a Griff owner, but there's not a lot of activity on our pages, so I spend more time on yours.!!
I obtained a pair of Alfa 166 calipers, or the Big Brembos, as they're called...Old phone bloke was less than helpful, re: the mounting difference(mine are 150mm - All the other Alfa Brembos are 130mm) "they don't work" was all he could offer, as advice!
I used his brackets as a starting point, then mocked up a template, which I then took to a mate with an engineering company...He confirmed that billet dural aluminium has the same strength as steel, regarding the forces applied in this set-up...The calipers are larger than most, so I've fitted 10mm hubcentric spacers, (under 17x7.5" wheels) and Ford Motorsport 63mm studs...
I'm still in the middle of a nut 'n' bolt resto., so I can't comment on performance, as yet...
Manic
I obtained a pair of Alfa 166 calipers, or the Big Brembos, as they're called...Old phone bloke was less than helpful, re: the mounting difference(mine are 150mm - All the other Alfa Brembos are 130mm) "they don't work" was all he could offer, as advice!
I used his brackets as a starting point, then mocked up a template, which I then took to a mate with an engineering company...He confirmed that billet dural aluminium has the same strength as steel, regarding the forces applied in this set-up...The calipers are larger than most, so I've fitted 10mm hubcentric spacers, (under 17x7.5" wheels) and Ford Motorsport 63mm studs...
I'm still in the middle of a nut 'n' bolt resto., so I can't comment on performance, as yet...
Manic
Edited by hillclimbmanic on Tuesday 22 March 09:56
ChimpOnGas said:
Alexdaredevils said:
I chucked these on and didn't have any problems
Currently 36% off
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Hub-Centric-4-x-108-63-4...
Just be careful with the links chaps, these look like 16mm spacers to me and you actually only need 10mm thick spacers to easily clear the Brembo calipers on 16" Imola front wheels like mine.Currently 36% off
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Hub-Centric-4-x-108-63-4...
You actually don't need any spacing if you reroute the cooper split pipe
Do make sure you check the hub-centric lip diameter against your specific wheel centre hole with a set of vernier gauges as different wheels IE... Imolas, Estorils, or other after market alloys may have slightly different diameter wheel hole centres.
The ones in the link are the rights ones...
Also make certain you are getting fine spline studs as a lot of these kits are sold with coarse spline studs.
The ones in the link are the rights ones...
Hub-centric spacers are a good idea but plain 10mm spacers will do the job just fine as the hub-centric lip on the TVR hub should protrude enough to give the same wheel centring effect.
16mm hubcentrics are safer than 10mm non hubcentric
Personally I'm not a huge fan of Carlos Fandango wheel spacers full stop as they are not an engineering solution to anything, more of a Max-Power add on used by spotty youfs who know nothing about the effects these things may be having in the steering and suspension geometry.
What are you going on about?
Steering and suspension geometry is of course a serious science in itself and knowing this I've avoided wheel spacers leaving them to the boy racers to fit on their silly shopping cars with ridiculous body kits.
What are you going on about?
Unfortunately they are a necessary evil on this conversion and are used to ensure my 16" Imola front wheels clear my super new Brembo calipers, and by rights to keep the same relationship between the front and rear track you'll need to be fitting four spacers of the same depth.
Nope the 15 inch and 16 inch imola's have different offsets So technically you need 8mm spacers to CORRECT it back to the 15 inch offset
I'm currently only running front spacers because that's just how the job ended late on Saturday afternoon. I calculated I've only increased my front track by 1.5% so I've decided to run the car like this to see how it feels, early indications re it makes fek all difference, indeed the steering and handling feels absolutely spot on still.
No you havent
I suspect there are more pressing problems with the steering and suspension geometry of a Chimaera, the geometry forced on the car by the use of a front hub/upright originally designed for a family car using a McPherson strut (then adapted by TVR for wishbones) being a key case in point!
My advise on spacers is to be careful blindly following well meaning links posted on these pages.
My advice is to you is let someone else do the spannering
My recommendation is to measure twice, phone the supplier, and order once!
This is the only way to be 100% sure you're buying the right thing and not just wasting your money
Or just listen to someone else who knows where there doing
Edited by ChimpOnGas on Tuesday 22 March 08:57
Gassing Station | Chimaera | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff