No Spark

[raceboy]

Just how much bad luck can one car have in short period of time
Driving home tonight, all is fine, until the revs drop, the engine stalls and on come the ignition lights
So I coast to a hault, and manage to pull into a car park, the thing refuses to start, just turning over but not fireing up
So the RAC are dispached to my rescue, when the very nice man arrives he tries his best but theres just no spark regardless of what he tries, he tried replacing the ignition amplifier, but his replacement didn't exactly match the existing ones numbers, but that made no difference, and he seemed to thing the distributer looked a bit tired
Anyway it wasn't starting so a very scary tow home and it's back sitting in the garage awaiting a good kicking
Anyone got any ideas, is my RAC man likely to be right, anyone know any good autoelectricians?
And the biggest problem is getting the car anywhere
And just to round it all off and bring a smile to a certain few faces, type Theives Wood, & Dogging into Goggle, thats where I came to a stop, and had to wait an hour in the dark

[Cousin It]

Blimey! I'd have brought you out a cup of tea if I'd seen you. I'd been on a beer run to Mansfield so I came the other way.

Steve

[Cousin It]

..and to really hack you off I reckon I've got a spare coil etc. in the garage!

[raceboy]

If your not far away, if you do have a spare coil knocking about and a bit of spare time, feel free to pop round (I'm in Sutton, near the big B&Q) and we'll give it a try, electrical issues are always a nightmare, as nothing ever looks broke, it just stops working and doesn't give you any clues

[targarama]

It will probably start just fine tomorrow morning ...

Not anything to do with the immobilisor is it? I guess you could hear the fuel pump so ruled that one out.

Did the recovery guy check there was voltage getting to the low tension leads as well as the high tension leads?

[Cousin It]

Been and looked in the garage. Found a coil. I don't know if a coil is a coil is a coil, but this ones off a 2000 Chim 500. It's stamped col 220 electronic. Don't even know what condition its in, its been kicking about for a few years.

Bit late for me to come out tonight mate. You are welcome to borrow it to see if it eliminates anything. Could drop off at Dor's diner tomorrow a.m?

[raceboy]

Cousin It said:

Bit late for me to come out tonight mate. You are welcome to borrow it to see if it eliminates anything. Could drop off at Dor's diner tomorrow a.m?

No worries I was thinking the weekend anyway, wouldn't dream of dragging anyone out in the middle of the night
Going to be taking racegirl to work in her car tomorrow, then borrowing that for the day, as she's out with a friend that night anyway, then got other issues to deal with on Friday, might have to call in a few favours with racedad for transport
The RAC man didn't even mention the coil, but it looks like a straight forward thing to rule out if you don't mind me borrowing your spare for a few minutes

targarama said:

Not anything to do with the immobilisor is it? I guess you could hear the fuel pump so ruled that one out.

No I don't think so, it was tring to fire, but the RAC guy kept putting bits of kit between spark plugs, coils, distributer caps, and tring to turn it over, and just getting no spark

targarama said:

Did the recovery guy check there was voltage getting to the low tension leads as well as the high tension leads?

No idea really, he was fiddleing about for ages trying to get some life out of it, but it was a bit dark to make out what he was doing most of the time.

[deeen]

My car has electrical probs as well, my guess would be immobiliser, or an earth problem which is affecting the immobiliser.

I'm sure it is possible to bypass with wires straight from the battery but don't know where to connect to... private mail only plz?

David Batty is just south of Guildford if you can get a tow, or Austec Racing near Gatwick can arrange a trailer recovery for a reasonable fee, but I believe both are busy.

Time to call a favour off the place that usually services it?

Dont know if this helps, just thinking out loud 'cos I know the feeling at the moment, good luck anyway, dean.

[wildeep]

I would guess at the immobiliser as well, when activated it cuts three circuits: ignition, fuel pump and starter. The meta unit is unreliable and can stop working on some of these ciruits, mine did on the starter. There is an easy way to bypass the circuit to test but best not to say on the forum. Drop me a PM and i'll give you the low down.

edit: didnt read that you said it was trying to fire which would indicate that you do have some spark there but not enough which would rule out the immobiliser. Is your coil the original black one?, they are well known to fail.

>> Edited by wildeep on Thursday 11th November 08:47

[raceboy]

wildeep said:

I would guess at the immobiliser as well, when activated it cuts three circuits: ignition, fuel pump and starter. The meta unit is unreliable and can stop working on some of these ciruits, mine did on the starter.

I'm not even sure if mines fitted with a Meta unit, it has the 'original' immobiliser fitted which is activated via turning the key in the door push, but that is then by-passed by the aftermarket Clifford alarm which is the only plipper I have

wildeep said:

didnt read that you said it was trying to fire which would indicate that you do have some spark there but not enough which would rule out the immobiliser.

I think I probably meant the engine was turning over, as apposed to doing nothing, or making a flat battery type noise, the RAC man had a bit of kit in line at the coil that was telling him 'No Spark'

wildeep said:

Is your coil the original black one?, they are well known to fail.

I think it's probably the original unit, I haven't changed it in the 6 years I've had it, and I don't recall it being on any of the documentation prior to my ownership
Feel free to drop me any emails with any hints and tips

[Cousin It]

I thought maybe the car would do the typical TVR thing & mend itself. I assume it wouldn't start today?

[raceboy]

Afraid not, tried it this morning and it was just the same as last night
Sat here now with an Ignition module, off the car, on the desk, and it's got the code 804288 1094 on it, and just found this for sale on ebay......

Does that look like a 6 instead of a 0, it looks exactly the same, and at less than a tenner it might be worth a punt

[Cousin It]

Have you looked up XXB445 on the internet? It does look loke a 6 to me.

You're still welcome to borrows the coil. As I said, it too may be knacked tho.

Steve

[raceboy]

Well the coils off now, that has the numbers.....
On the plug end 1220 522 011
On the blank end 0 221 122 392

And a Google for LUCAS XXB445 brings up 3 links, one is back to a Pistonheads thread in the wedge forum, another is a link to shpud's wedge bible, and it looks like it's the part number for the plug on the top

>> Edited by raceboy on Thursday 11th November 20:37

[raceboy]

Is there any SIMPLE way to test any of the bits I'm currently taking off, giving a wipe, a shake, and putting back to find it's still not fixed
Thanks to all the helpfull people on here I've got a list of bits to poke but without knowing how to test bits, or having any spares to swap over I'm a bit stuck

[GreenV8S]

Testing by substitution is a matter of trial and error. For this sort of problem you may find it is better to diagnose the fault methodically. For example:

You should have +12v on the +ve coil terminal. If not you are looking at a simple electrical supply problem.

If the coil has a good +12v supply, by disconnecting the -ve wire and shorting the -ve terminal to earth briefly you should get a good fat spark out of the coil's HT terminal (I assume you know how to test for this). If not, the coil is buggered.

If the coil is OK then you should get the same behaviour with the coil LT wires connected when you crank the engine over. You should also see the -ve LT alternating between 0V and 12v ish as you crank. If not, you're looking for a faulty ignition amplifier or faulty electronic points in the distributor.

If you get a spark at the coil when cranking but not at the plugs you are looking for a faulty HT lead or rotor arm/cap problem.

Hopefully you get the idea. With a basic understanding of what is suppposed to happen when it is working correctly you should be able to locate the problem. Without this understanding you have to rely on trial and error, and bear the risk that you will do further damage while you're experimenting with it.

[raceboy]

GreenV8S said:

Loads of stuff I wish I understood fully

Now the coil does appears to have 2 connections to it, unfortunatly instead of + & - it's either 1 or 15

GreenV8S said:

If the coil has a good +12v supply, by disconnecting the -ve wire and shorting the -ve terminal to earth briefly you should get a good fat spark out of the coil's HT terminal (I assume you know how to test for this).

Never assume anything

GreenV8S said:

Hopefully you get the idea. With a basic understanding of what is suppposed to happen when it is working correctly you should be able to locate the problem. Without this understanding you have to rely on trial and error, and bear the risk that you will do further damage while you're experimenting with it.

I'd really like to get my head around how this all works and where to stick the probes of my multimeter to get usefull information so I can go and buy the correct bits, and only the bits I need, rather than empty my wallet at the autofactors and come home with a load of bits I don't need
Any pointers to good accurate online info for stuff like this

[my 350i]

raceboy said:

Never assume anything

Because we all know that
Assumption is the mother of all f*** ups

[raceboy]

Right, had a bit of a 'play'
12.73V at the '+' end of the coil
Now this 'big spark' I'm not sure about this, earthed the '-' popped the Ht lead off and cranked it Someone tell me I've not just fried everything Oh and I turned the lights out in the garage so I could see any 'spark' but not a sausage, does this point to a duff coil? Or have I just killed everything, it just made the same noise as it always did, and nothing went bang

[sotonS2]

Reckon you should buy CousinIt a beer and try his spare coil. Elimination by substitution maybe, but 12V at the coil and no spark does smack of duff coil.