Am I being conned?

[mr grumpy]

About a week ago the battery on my Chim went flat (my own fault for various reasons). Unfortunately the immobiliser (Foxguard) went out of sync with the key fob. Got the car recovered by the AA to my local dealers so they could reprogramme the fobs to the immobiliser. This is not a major job - take the top of the dash then press a button on the immobiliser control box; about 1 hours labour.

On collecting the car and going for a celebratory drive I noticed 3 issues.
1. The temp gauge permanently read 120C or over, car obviously not over heating.
2. The brake warning lights above the headlight/sidelight switchs flickered on and off at random.
3. The radio wouldn't turn on - turned it on once, turned it off for some reason wouldn't turn on again.

Needless to say I return the car to the dealer highlighting the above problems; suggesting that on havoing the dash apart they may have diturbed a connector/relay/earth to cause these few issues.

1 week later on phoning the dealer they informed me that they had sorted the radio, the oil pressure problem was the oil pressure transducer and the flickering light were because of a faulty handbrake switch.

Long and short of this epic posting is that I find it strange that the all these problems occured so close together so soon after the dash was disturbed. Could these be caused by a loose connector, relay, earth as I suggested or am I being overly suspicious. perhaps one of you competant techie guys could let me know.
PLEASE!

I don't mind paying for genuine faults (that is the "joy of ownership") I just do not want to be ripped of by a company trying to make an extra few hundred quid instead of admitting a mistake. I don't mind the mistake - they happen but I don't want to pay for it.

Anyway tirade over essay mode off; time for a G & T.

Thanks in advance to any replies.

(Edited cos I have dyslexic fingers - I can spell, they can't)

>>> Edited by mr grumpy on Sunday 27th February 16:20

[tvrbob]

I'm with you on this. You're being cond I'd say. Ask for the failed parts. They belong to you because you are being asked to pay full price for replacement parts. If they can't provide them and tell you they have thrown them out then you need to take it further. They may genuinely have changed these parts but that could be because the auto electrician was a poor faultfinder. There's no way you should be paying more because the electrician was poor at his job so watch for opportunities to trip them up. In the end they have your car and will hold it hostage till you pay so if you fight them you may win but you may be without your car for a while.

[flintstone]

Sounds like an incredible coincidence that all this should happen at the same time they were fiddling with the electrics.

Hard to prove though.

[chimtvr]

After 18 years as a mechanic trust me coincidences do happen. If you want to use this garage again when you collect the car just get them to show you under the bonnet and look down by the oil filter and you can see the oil pressure switch then you will know if its new
being shown old parts is pointless every garage has lots of parts would you recognise your old oil pressure switch?
If they havent replaced the parts then you have the right to argue the bill but check with your own eyes before you start an argument
I cant tell you how many times ive heard since my car was serviced this has happened or how many times ive checked headlights only for a bulb to fail as the car drives out the workshop

[chimtvr]

ok ive just reread your post and im confused you say the temperature gauge wasnt working but theyve replaced an oil pressure transducer????if they have told you that its a lie unless you have made a mistake in your wording??

[tvrbob]

chimtvr said:

After 18 years as a mechanic trust me coincidences do happen.

I agree in principle though I know that when fault finding it may be necessary to swap parts in order to find what is going wrong. Whether those parts were faulty or not make no difference, the customer ends up paying for them. It does therefore depend on the capability of the faultfinder. If he is inexperienced or lazy he may well take the easy route and change the easy things first in the hope that this will identify the fault. So poor fault finder equals more exchanged parts and bigger bill. The worse they are the more we pay.

As I said coincidences do happen but it is very unusual for mechano-electric devices such as oil pressure switches to do this. It is usually electronic devises that are damaged by surges and reverse current.

[Ribol]

chimtvr said:

After 18 years as a mechanic trust me coincidences do happen.

I am not saying this problem is a coincidence, but just to add to the mysteries of the motor game, how many people check everything works on a car before they take it in to a garage?
For some reason they always do when they collect it

Not aimed at Mr Grumpy BTW, just making a point

[joospeed]

Ribol said:

chimtvr said: After 18 years as a mechanic trust me coincidences do happen. I am not saying this problem is a coincidence, but just to add to the mysteries of the motor game, how many people check everything works on a car before they take it in to a garage? For some reason they always do when they collect it Not aimed at Mr Grumpy BTW, just making a point

You're not wrong there.
I've lost count of the number of times I've had to fix stuff for free just because the ownre insists it was *working before it came in* .. and it's usually a completely unrelated part to what you were working on.
Oh how I laugh as i count the wasted hours

However having said that, if someone's broken something on the job as direct result then that needs fixing free of charge anyway .. trouble is, how does each prove their case?

Usually the garage ends up losing out in the majority of cases hence bills might be more than yuo expect .. everything is fatored inot a bill .. the actual job, running costs of the business and fixing stuff for free just cos *the customer is always right*

[Ribol]

joospeed said:

However having said that, if someone's broken something on the job as direct result then that needs fixing free of charge anyway .. trouble is, how does each prove their case?

You can probably tell I may have been there done it etc but for me the time I enjoy the best is when you prove 100% that a customer is trying to have you over.

eg. Bloke brings car in for alarm fitting, pays, goes then comes back 10 minutes later:

C - the horn is not working

Me - are you sure?

C - yes, I just tried it, it's not working.

Me - how do you know it was working before?

C - because when I was driving down Farleigh Road a dog ran out, I hooted, I just managed to avoid it and nearly had an accident.

Me - ok, no prob, let me put it in the workshop and have a quick look.

C - ok

Took the car in, got the bonnet up and to my and our fitter's amazement the was no horn actually on the car, just the wires hanging where it should have been.
At this point I knew this was going to be fun. Called up to the shop to send the "C" round. He came round and we went through the story with the dog again and he said it again.
Then we gave him two bits of bad news, no horn and £30 min charge for looking for it. He paid up quicker than I have ever seen and I never saw him again. We had free cakes for ages

no prizes for guessing what the "C" stands for

[tvrbob]

....and the counter argument is....

Mechanic rings me on my mobile and says 'Just checking the brakes for your service and we find that the front pads surface is cracking, they need changing'. I reply 'Leave them, I'll do it myself'. Some time later the mechanic rings me again and says 'The passenger side door locking solenoid is faulty'. I reply 'Leave it, I'll fix it myself'

Got home stripped the front brakes. No cracking. Took them to my friendly mechanic and asked his opinion, no cracking. Over two years later and still OK. Door solenoid has also worked perfectly for over two years.

Sometimes Mechanics are not the saints you are making them out to be. Some times they try to con the unwary, I know.

[M@H]

Indeed.. the Ford Maindealer in Cheltenham told me that my Power Steering Pump was leaking on my Puma and needed replacement.. leave it I said and when I looked later on that day it was bone dry.

Some 40,000 miles and 4 services later (at another Maindealer who never mentioned any problems) when I sold the car, the pump still hadn't leaked and was working fine.

There are doubtless saints and sinners on BOTH sides

Matt.

[Ribol]

tvrbob said:

Sometimes Mechanics are not the saints you are making them out to be. Some times they try to con the unwary, I know.

Nor is the general public

edited to add: I have had a lot more people try to con me than I have ever conned in my time in the trade.

>> Edited by Ribol on Monday 28th February 12:38

[M@H]

Ribol said:

Nor is the general public edited to add: I have had a lot more people try to con me than I have ever conned in my time in the trade.

Is that an admission..?

[Ribol]

M@H said:

Ribol said: Nor is the general public edited to add: I have had a lot more people try to con me than I have ever conned in my time in the trade. Is that an admission..?

I have never conned anyone, more than none have tried to con me

[M@H]

...infinitely more then

[mr grumpy]

chimtvr said:

ok ive just reread your post and im confused you say the temperature gauge wasnt working but theyve replaced an oil pressure transducer????if they have told you that its a lie unless you have made a mistake in your wording??

Will double check when I collect the car. Problem was definately temperature over reading (Off top off the scale).

In all probability I was me letting my inner moron escape, hence i got confused with the transducer. I will keep you posted.

To all the other guys and gals out there I appreciate the comments from both sides, Temp gauge is one that I check on a regular basis whenever I drive so I know it was working last time the car was used - same goes for the radio (CD player anyway) used on every drive.

I am willing to accept it is coincidence - they do happen; what I would really like to know is whether it is possible for these failures to be linked to one issue (loose connector or something) less likely to believe in coincidence in that case.

Thanks for all the help so far.

[flintstone]

joospeed said:

I've lost count of the number of times I've had to fix stuff for free just because the ownre insists it was *working before it came in* .. and it's usually a completely unrelated part to what you were working on.

In that case I'd like to book my car in to have the ashtrays vacuumed.

And if those tyres are bald/paint chips still on the nose/windscreen's starting to go milky I'll expect you to sort it all out. Gratis

>> Edited by flintstone on Monday 28th February 21:25

[joospeed]

flintstone said:

joospeed said: I've lost count of the number of times I've had to fix stuff for free just because the ownre insists it was *working before it came in* .. and it's usually a completely unrelated part to what you were working on. In that case I'd like to book my car in to have the ashtrays vacuumed. And if those tyres are bald/paint chips still on the nose/windscreen's starting to go milky I'll expect you to sort it all out. Gratis >> Edited by flintstone on Monday 28th February 21:25

Speaking as someone who's lost probably thousands of pounds in lost hours, I don't find that in the slightest bit amusing.

[chimtvr]

joospeed said:

flintstone said: joospeed said: I've lost count of the number of times I've had to fix stuff for free just because the ownre insists it was *working before it came in* .. and it's usually a completely unrelated part to what you were working on. In that case I'd like to book my car in to have the ashtrays vacuumed. And if those tyres are bald/paint chips still on the nose/windscreen's starting to go milky I'll expect you to sort it all out. Gratis >> Edited by flintstone on Monday 28th February 21:25 Speaking as someone who's lost probably thousands of pounds in lost hours, I don't find that in the slightest bit amusing.

I know exactly how you feel i had a 2000 Passat tdi pd in about two weeks ago for a timing belt kit change, did the job, the customer collected his car the next morning he turned up complaining of lost performance. so of course the first thing i do is double check valve timing. This isnt a small job it involves removing the front bumper and sliding the whole front end of the car forward about 6 inches about 3 or 4 hours wasted. turned out to be the air mass meter the customer lied blatantly to try and have his car repaired at my expense .So did i then ripp him off ? no i cant afford an unhappy customer so once again i smile at the idiot as i charge him just to change the part he walks away and i lose 4 hours labour however next time he comes in a tt tax will apply

[colinrob]

Unfortunatly out there are con merchants out there, both dealers and customers, you need to take your car to a place you feel confident with, I must say for all the places I have taken my TVR I have never felt ripped off quite the opposite actually felt people bend over backwards, but I am very concerned about taking the wifes Merc for a service