Recommended springs
Discussion
Hi All
My 500 is used frequently on the road as well as trackdays and sprints. The shocks have been replaced with AVO`s and the springs swapped from the original very tired progressive ones. Whilst it now feels a whole lot better with the shocks set five off maximum on the front and around half way on the rear it still feels a bit springy on the front. What springs are you all using with AVO shocks ? Mine are 9" 300lb front and 250lb rear. Looking under this afternoon the coils seem very close which will reduce suspension travel and make for a harsh ride if they start to touch.
My 500 is used frequently on the road as well as trackdays and sprints. The shocks have been replaced with AVO`s and the springs swapped from the original very tired progressive ones. Whilst it now feels a whole lot better with the shocks set five off maximum on the front and around half way on the rear it still feels a bit springy on the front. What springs are you all using with AVO shocks ? Mine are 9" 300lb front and 250lb rear. Looking under this afternoon the coils seem very close which will reduce suspension travel and make for a harsh ride if they start to touch.
Mr Jenks said:
Hi All
My 500 is used frequently on the road as well as trackdays and sprints. The shocks have been replaced with AVO`s and the springs swapped from the original very tired progressive ones. Whilst it now feels a whole lot better with the shocks set five off maximum on the front and around half way on the rear it still feels a bit springy on the front. What springs are you all using with AVO shocks ? Mine are 9" 300lb front and 250lb rear. Looking under this afternoon the coils seem very close which will reduce suspension travel and make for a harsh ride if they start to touch.
Well, even on the 4l I tend to go to 375lb front and 325lb rear but with more power oversteer I would go for 400lb front and 300lb rear or there abouts
>> Edited by bugsy on Friday 3rd June 20:20
19560 said:
bugsy said:
Well, even on the 4l I tend to go to 375lb front and 325lb rear but with more power understeer I would go for 400lb front and 300lb rear or there abouts.
Snap, lol.
It went because after a few glasses of Don Darius I put understeer instead of oversteer, surprised you didn't pick me up on that one.
Seriously, there is nothing wrong with the set-up you are running for a daily driver but there are those who would avocate 600lb front and 400lb rear for sprinting or really vigorous driving, perhaps somewhere in between would be suitable.
>> Edited by bugsy on Friday 3rd June 21:44
GarryM said:
The standard Nitron springs are 325lb and 250lb. On the road I find this excellent. On track I can see higher rates would be an advantage - but these rates are far from a disaster when the dampers are set very stiff. (I have standard size wheels with SO3s.)
Yep, with the excellent Nitron product you have an extremely progrssive damping cabability, unfortunately not the case with AVO's once you get past 10 clicks in my experiance, which is probably why most Avo users play with the springing, of course damping is never the complete answer.
bugsy said:
It went because after a few glasses of Don Darius I put understeer instead of oversteer, surprised you didn't pick me up on that one.
There are those who would avocate 600lb front and 400lb rear for sprinting or really vigorous driving, perhaps somewhere in between would be suitable.
Dashing out last night I overlooked that. 600 is very stiff - the Tasmin racers "only" use 800-900. The stiffest road going TVRs generally are the Cerberas with about 450 at the front.
19560 said:
Dashing out last night I overlooked that. 600 is very stiff - the Tasmin racers "only" use 800-900. The stiffest road going TVRs generally are the Cerberas with about 450 at the front.
600 lb/in isn't *that* stiff if you have decent dampers. Of course, if you have ordinary budget dampers then the ride quality suffers terribly when you stiffen things up. This is why I run Nitron rather than AVO etc. Even with bushless dampers, the seat bolted solidly to the chassis and minimal padding in the seat and 600 lb springs the ride quality is tolerable for me. Not saying it would suit everyone, and more squishiness would certainly make it more comfy. Such a hard setup wouldn't be practical without decent quality dampers though.
19560 said:
It went because after a few glasses of Don Darius I put understeer instead of oversteer, surprised you didn't pick me up on that one.
There are those who would avocate 600lb front and 400lb rear for sprinting or really vigorous driving, perhaps somewhere in between would be suitable.
Dashing out last night I overlooked that. 600 is very stiff - the Tasmin racers "only" use 800-900. The stiffest road going TVRs generally are the Cerberas with about 450 at the front.
The keyword was sprinting, nobody I talk to would advocate these spring settings on a daily driver, even for track days.
I was going at the extreme limits with my posting and could not think of many applications where I would fit front springs over 400lb on a Chim, of course spring weights are fairly academic and easy to panic about considering you lose so much at the wheel.
bugsy said:
The keyword was sprinting, nobody I talk to would advocate these spring settings on a daily driver, even for track days.
I take your point, but 600 lb springs aren't as extreme as you seem to be implying. Mine is a daily driver (150+ K miles to date), and despite all the compromises I mentioned earlier none of my fillings have dropped out yet. I have most definitely compromised ride comfort in favour of grip and handling, and I doubt this setup would suit most people, but it's not totally impractical. Put it this way, when passengers get out their first comment is usually not about the ride comfort!
Second Peter, I'm on 450/375, and would still consider going stiffer (certainly would not go softer after experimentation). IMHO the 'normal' spring ranges recommended are too soft, and spend too much time at the limit of compression / on bumpstops! Just considering the weight of the car is a misnomer, the ability to accelerate / decelerate should be factored in - which I think is commonly underestimated.
My acid test is a Peak district hump back bridge, the rebound on soft springs is phenomenal(ly scary) - the stronger springs actually ride the bump and have less recoil!
Stronger & longer is my preference, but all my personal ....
Dave
My acid test is a Peak district hump back bridge, the rebound on soft springs is phenomenal(ly scary) - the stronger springs actually ride the bump and have less recoil!
Stronger & longer is my preference, but all my personal ....
Dave
Thanks guys for the replies.
I have just got back from a sprint at Lydden, the first event since putting these springs and shocks on the car. It has made a huge difference over the original and appears to develop more grip. It does however have a bit of roll when turning in so I reckon on going along the lines of the 400lb front and 300 rear. I dont mind a harsher ride on the track because I have natural padding in the seat area to compensate and I can easily knock the damping back a couple of clicks to preserve the wifes fillings.
Cheers
Dave
I have just got back from a sprint at Lydden, the first event since putting these springs and shocks on the car. It has made a huge difference over the original and appears to develop more grip. It does however have a bit of roll when turning in so I reckon on going along the lines of the 400lb front and 300 rear. I dont mind a harsher ride on the track because I have natural padding in the seat area to compensate and I can easily knock the damping back a couple of clicks to preserve the wifes fillings.
Cheers
Dave
Mr Jenks said:
It does however have a bit of roll when turning in
Dangerous to try to diagnose handling long distance and this could be way off the mark, but excessive transient body roll might be a sign that the car is underdamped. If you get excessive sustained body roll on long sweepers that would point to a lack of roll stiffness relative to the roll center height. You have to bear in mind though that even on very hard setups these cars will roll a lot, they're road cars not race cars. Mine handles like a go-kart compared to factory standard, but still rolls several degrees on corners.
I realise that it will always roll a bit on long sweepy bends but this is evident on turning in to any corner and is noticable, albeit to a far lesser degree, on the road at legal speeds. Once it has dropped its corner into the bend it will hold that level through the turn without any further issue.
Mr Jenks said:
I realise that it will always roll a bit on long sweepy bends but this is evident on turning in to any corner and is noticable, albeit to a far lesser degree, on the road at legal speeds. Once it has dropped its corner into the bend it will hold that level through the turn without any further issue.
One thing is certain, going from 300lb to 400lb on the front will make a significant difference and with springs at £20 each, if you change your mind next year and go up a bit, its not the end of the world financially. (somebody will buy them)
Aaron C. Reskew said:
Derek's reply came and went then but an obvious next step would appear to be to put the front springs onto the rear and try 400s at the front thus restoring the normal 75% ratio.
The front springs are shorter than the rear though.
He has 9" at the front and his AVOs have adjustable spring seats so can't they be adjusted to fit at the very least on a trial basis? Yes, I am aware that really you need to know the static pre-load etc. and that stiffer springs need to have a shorter free length but would be surprised if you couldn't fit them at all but if you know better please post as I am happy to be corrected.
Aaron C. Reskew said:
Derek's reply came and went then but an obvious next step would appear to be to put the front springs onto the rear and try 400s at the front thus restoring the normal 75% ratio.
The front springs are shorter than the rear though.
Is anyone able to confirm this?
Surely the spring length required is relative to the extended length of the damper, the front and rear AVOs were the same IIRC, different pressure/valving I expect.
Mr Jenks said:
Surely the spring length required is relative to the extended length of the damper, the front and rear AVOs were the same IIRC, different pressure/valving I expect.
Also relative to suspension arm angles, bump stops and pre-load but see my above post. I don't think that you've anything to lose.
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