Discussion
I posted some comments in Los Angeles' questions two posts down but felt I should share some thoughts for people considering buying an XK or XKR but have not yet.
So here is my advice - Dont.
For the detailed version, read the post at the very end of Los Angeles' thread seeking advice on present owners. For the short version, here it is.
Mileage - 1,200
Visits to service bay - 3
Days in service bay - over 20 and counting
different issues - 4 including a very bad timing detonation issue that makes the car sound like someone is banging on pipes in the basement when the car is at low rpms and driving up a hill. Jaguar tells me this is OK and there is nothing wrong with the car when it does this. They refuse to admit this could even be an issue.
interior- not up to par for this money. The new benz c class has a nicer fit and better materials for 1/3 the price. The new nissan z is comperable in materials for 1/3 the price. Its not up the price and that dreadful aerial antenna is just wrong wrong wrong. There were so close but 1 year from now, this style is going to look very outdated next to the competition.
main reason - if you watch who is driving them carefully, they are well kept women on their way to the tennis club. Mostly attrative women with money are driving this car, not sports enthusiasts looking for a nice ride. Seriously. You don't believe me, just watch next few you see on the road. This car is Miata 2.0 gold edition. Consider this your early warning or you might be like one of the early guys who bought a miata and then watched this reputation engulf them...
I had one for 3 months and ditched it. Bought a 997 and I feel like a guy who was stuck in a bad relationship and is now freed. I had no idea it could be so much better in my new relationship with the 997 and the check was just about the same to boot.
I've seen a lot of comparisons trying to get the xk into the same conversation with the 997 but lets be really honest here. They are not peers and there is not comparison. And I'm not even one of those porsche nuts who believe the product is superior. I'm just a guy who could afford to write a big check for a daily driver that would excite me. The excitement of the jag wore off very very very fast. Imagine how you would feel two years from now when the inside is really outdated compared to competiton and you now know the entire jaguar staff at the service bay on a first name basis.
Lets put it this way. I know where the coffee is kept in their kitchen I've been there so much.
Please STOP trying to call the XK a sports car. Its a blvd cruiser.
So here is my advice - Dont.
For the detailed version, read the post at the very end of Los Angeles' thread seeking advice on present owners. For the short version, here it is.
Mileage - 1,200
Visits to service bay - 3
Days in service bay - over 20 and counting
different issues - 4 including a very bad timing detonation issue that makes the car sound like someone is banging on pipes in the basement when the car is at low rpms and driving up a hill. Jaguar tells me this is OK and there is nothing wrong with the car when it does this. They refuse to admit this could even be an issue.
interior- not up to par for this money. The new benz c class has a nicer fit and better materials for 1/3 the price. The new nissan z is comperable in materials for 1/3 the price. Its not up the price and that dreadful aerial antenna is just wrong wrong wrong. There were so close but 1 year from now, this style is going to look very outdated next to the competition.
main reason - if you watch who is driving them carefully, they are well kept women on their way to the tennis club. Mostly attrative women with money are driving this car, not sports enthusiasts looking for a nice ride. Seriously. You don't believe me, just watch next few you see on the road. This car is Miata 2.0 gold edition. Consider this your early warning or you might be like one of the early guys who bought a miata and then watched this reputation engulf them...
I had one for 3 months and ditched it. Bought a 997 and I feel like a guy who was stuck in a bad relationship and is now freed. I had no idea it could be so much better in my new relationship with the 997 and the check was just about the same to boot.
I've seen a lot of comparisons trying to get the xk into the same conversation with the 997 but lets be really honest here. They are not peers and there is not comparison. And I'm not even one of those porsche nuts who believe the product is superior. I'm just a guy who could afford to write a big check for a daily driver that would excite me. The excitement of the jag wore off very very very fast. Imagine how you would feel two years from now when the inside is really outdated compared to competiton and you now know the entire jaguar staff at the service bay on a first name basis.
Lets put it this way. I know where the coffee is kept in their kitchen I've been there so much.
Please STOP trying to call the XK a sports car. Its a blvd cruiser.
Edited by kinjachris on Sunday 11th March 20:50
KinjaChris, noone is comparing the XK to the 911, they're comparing the XKR to the 911, I've driven both XK and XKR and they are very different, the XKR is a much more focused sporting drive than the XK, you're right the XK is a cruiser, but the XKR is a different animal.
John.
John.
Edited by steelej on Thursday 8th March 10:29
sorry, i did buy an S. And I have driven the XKR. Much nicer than the XK but still no match for a standard carerra without the S. I ordered an R but there is no way now I would go through with buying anything from Ford, I mean Jaguar after the way I've been treated.
The other part is how the brand makes you feel for being an owner and what stands behind you. From my perspective Jaguar wants nothing to do with customers once the car is sold. I've just been told by a service manager that even though my cam bangs loudly, yes i said my cam is banging as in hitting the variable timing when its not supposed to causing very loud metallic banging, when driving up a hill at 30 mph and maintaining a constant speed that this is "normal operating" for the engine, have a nice day and no we won't take your car back into the service bay for repairs as nothing is wrong with it. I asked him to put that in writing and of course he wouldn't. I was told to leave, read my warranty and to go retain an attorney. How's that for luxury experience, my service manager telling me that he wont even accept my car back and that he is suggesting that I go sue the manufacturer so he doesn't have to deal with it....
No one higher than a call center representative will call outbound from the ivory tower to handle a legitimate customer complaint. With that kind of leadership, they will go downhill quick. I had a problem with a toyota prius and lots of people with big titles were calling just to check up on me and make sure everything was going to my satisfaction. Toyota gets it and actually wants to create customers for life. I'm now the anti-customer for life and telling everyone I know about Jaguar.
Sad thing for Jag is they don't know I'm a public speaker and I've worked the Jaguar experience into my speeches. I told 6,000 people in the past two weeks alone about how miserable they have treated me. I'll probably hit the 10,000 person mark before the end of March if I'm lucky with my upcoming schedule.
Back to the 911 S, there are lots of people trying to say that the XKR is a legimate contender, not so. Blvd cruiser +30% maybe.
So guys might get the coupe, but they are making WAY more convertibles and those are going to be driven by the stay at home wives of executives which is going to further kill the sports car image of the car. Same thing about AMG SLs, more women with poofy silver hair drive those than men who like sports cars. They should come with big oversized gold bangle necklaces and earings as an accessory as everyone that has one seems to like that stuff.
The other part is how the brand makes you feel for being an owner and what stands behind you. From my perspective Jaguar wants nothing to do with customers once the car is sold. I've just been told by a service manager that even though my cam bangs loudly, yes i said my cam is banging as in hitting the variable timing when its not supposed to causing very loud metallic banging, when driving up a hill at 30 mph and maintaining a constant speed that this is "normal operating" for the engine, have a nice day and no we won't take your car back into the service bay for repairs as nothing is wrong with it. I asked him to put that in writing and of course he wouldn't. I was told to leave, read my warranty and to go retain an attorney. How's that for luxury experience, my service manager telling me that he wont even accept my car back and that he is suggesting that I go sue the manufacturer so he doesn't have to deal with it....
No one higher than a call center representative will call outbound from the ivory tower to handle a legitimate customer complaint. With that kind of leadership, they will go downhill quick. I had a problem with a toyota prius and lots of people with big titles were calling just to check up on me and make sure everything was going to my satisfaction. Toyota gets it and actually wants to create customers for life. I'm now the anti-customer for life and telling everyone I know about Jaguar.
Sad thing for Jag is they don't know I'm a public speaker and I've worked the Jaguar experience into my speeches. I told 6,000 people in the past two weeks alone about how miserable they have treated me. I'll probably hit the 10,000 person mark before the end of March if I'm lucky with my upcoming schedule.
Back to the 911 S, there are lots of people trying to say that the XKR is a legimate contender, not so. Blvd cruiser +30% maybe.
So guys might get the coupe, but they are making WAY more convertibles and those are going to be driven by the stay at home wives of executives which is going to further kill the sports car image of the car. Same thing about AMG SLs, more women with poofy silver hair drive those than men who like sports cars. They should come with big oversized gold bangle necklaces and earings as an accessory as everyone that has one seems to like that stuff.
Hey Los Angeles, I only wish that what I'm saying isn't true. It isn't pretty from my point of view. I've now got a 91k paperweight that Jaguar doesn't see the need to repair. I think I've figured out a way to share this for real. I'm picking the xk up this morning and I'll shoot some video and post it to youtube in the next week. Then everyone can hear what this thing is doing that the technicians say is normal. I want to get behind the wheel and smile for that kind of money and my experience has been so miserable I just can't do that anymore. My 997S does that for me every time. So stay tuned, I'll post the video in a few days and you can all see for yourself.
Well you are fairly correct in your observations. I did NOT buy it. Wy wife bought it for me as a surprise. It was an XK convert. I wanted to trade it up for the XKR coupe which is where my wonderful dealer experience began. We even agreed to take a depreciation hit for trading in a car with 400 miles on it which is only fair as it technically isn't new. All I have posted is true so I am also surprised that the dealership has taken no actions, very sad indeed for how the brand treats its customers. I certainly don't see the need to post a copy of my drivers license for you to qualify. If you work for the organization, you could easily find me in your system assuming you wanted to put forth an effort onbehalf of Jag to make right what has go so so so very wrong. As of right now, I've been officially told to stick it and get an attorney because we will not help you.
So in all actuallity, I have every right to share my experience so that others who come after me hopefully know the truth and don't find themselves faced with the same situation I am in. For the record, I do a lot of public speaking and I did literally tell that many people in the past few weeks, perhaps more. You want my speaking agendas?
The internet does one wonderful thing, it shifts the power to the people via networks like this one so where before a corportation could screw a peson and no one would know, now that one person with an internet connection can tell LOTS and LOTS of people and I intend to tell eveyone I possibly can how crappy I've been treated. I can't wait to see how many hits my you tube video is about to get because there is very little video posted on this car and lots of web traffic around it. I'm also contemplating a blog around this story and getting the word out via the social networks. One person with conviction who has been wronged can yeild a large influence if they understand how the web works (which unfortunetly for Jag, I do)
When you say you are surprised that no one has done anything about it, I agree. When you say my story is too far fetched, I'm sorry for both of us, I disagree. Its all real life for me.
So if you are as close as you say you are, then you have two options. 1) debate me if this is real or not or 2) do something about it because you care about your brand.
So in all actuallity, I have every right to share my experience so that others who come after me hopefully know the truth and don't find themselves faced with the same situation I am in. For the record, I do a lot of public speaking and I did literally tell that many people in the past few weeks, perhaps more. You want my speaking agendas?
The internet does one wonderful thing, it shifts the power to the people via networks like this one so where before a corportation could screw a peson and no one would know, now that one person with an internet connection can tell LOTS and LOTS of people and I intend to tell eveyone I possibly can how crappy I've been treated. I can't wait to see how many hits my you tube video is about to get because there is very little video posted on this car and lots of web traffic around it. I'm also contemplating a blog around this story and getting the word out via the social networks. One person with conviction who has been wronged can yeild a large influence if they understand how the web works (which unfortunetly for Jag, I do)
When you say you are surprised that no one has done anything about it, I agree. When you say my story is too far fetched, I'm sorry for both of us, I disagree. Its all real life for me.
So if you are as close as you say you are, then you have two options. 1) debate me if this is real or not or 2) do something about it because you care about your brand.
It is the Jag empire once you have been treated badly by a dealer and engage the main office. We have engaged both Jag USA and Jag UK (directly to the office of the CEO). No response from the UK. Only a call center rep from the US. She stands behind the dealer, accused my wife of lying and making it up and says their job is to protect the dealer. She also told us that no exeuctive speaks to any customer and that she is the higest I could get to. Sorry it is all one and the same. The empire is the dealership, and one car. Customers could give a crap about corporate structure and reporting lines. Bottom line, my Jag is defective and the want to rail road me. That is the empire and not this dealership.
By the way, I've been getting emails from other people now who have XKs who say they have had similar problems with their cars and the dealerships. I do not think I am alone on this one.
By the way, I've been getting emails from other people now who have XKs who say they have had similar problems with their cars and the dealerships. I do not think I am alone on this one.
Sounds like a lesson learned by the missus! Dont buy cars for fellas (without complete knowledge that that is what they want). Unfortunately for you, most of your problems would have been missed if you had been the one looking for cars, ie you would have seen the interior and felt the performance of the XK compared to XKR and 911 and would have left it alone.
I'm not sure why the interior in comparison to a C-class is of any relevance though. The C-class has to have a superb interior as thats all its got going for it. In my XKR there is plenty more to be interested in other than the interior (i'm not saying its not important, its just that its not crucial), I dont spend much time looking at the dashboard, mainly due to the blur of trees on either side of my car.
I'm not sure why the interior in comparison to a C-class is of any relevance though. The C-class has to have a superb interior as thats all its got going for it. In my XKR there is plenty more to be interested in other than the interior (i'm not saying its not important, its just that its not crucial), I dont spend much time looking at the dashboard, mainly due to the blur of trees on either side of my car.
Well it will take me a bit to find your items requested but you will have them later today.
As for the 2nd part. I'm not attacking, I'm sharing.
Philosophy, mission, vision, values..... those are things we write on nifty frames that hang on walls. In in my dealers case little jaguar magnets the define "satisfaction" on the service managers file cabinet as he is telling me he doesn't care that I'm not satisfied, he is right and I am wrong, end of story. How ironic is that?
What matters is how people talk to people. If one person is bad, sure you have an employee issue. When it is several people and the trend and experience is the same, it comes back to organizational values which is part of the overall philosphy and desired customer experience. I have every right to share about these topics as they are relevant and the overall brand in the grand scheme of things is made up of lots of single customer interactions. I am one of them.
As for the 2nd part. I'm not attacking, I'm sharing.
Philosophy, mission, vision, values..... those are things we write on nifty frames that hang on walls. In in my dealers case little jaguar magnets the define "satisfaction" on the service managers file cabinet as he is telling me he doesn't care that I'm not satisfied, he is right and I am wrong, end of story. How ironic is that?
What matters is how people talk to people. If one person is bad, sure you have an employee issue. When it is several people and the trend and experience is the same, it comes back to organizational values which is part of the overall philosphy and desired customer experience. I have every right to share about these topics as they are relevant and the overall brand in the grand scheme of things is made up of lots of single customer interactions. I am one of them.
Sorry to hear of your further misfortunes. My father suffered similarly only a lot worse over a series of cars. But that was in the eighties. I have an 04 XJR, not a current XK, but I haven't had any mechanical issues whatsoever. I have experienced nothing but service and courtesy from Jaguar. And I don't work for them. So, in common with a lot of people reading this, I have some difficulty believing that what you are saying is representative. If LA can take this forward for you, then lets do that and see if we can get a result. In the meantime, try a whisky mac. 1/3 Black Label 2/3 Crabbies Green Ginger, on the rocks. Chill out.
I think it is funny you think I'm making this up because it does sound outrageous. Its really not actually.
OK, just facts. I went to pick the car up today. I walk into the service cashier ask for my car. 10 minutes later, 3 intercom pages to the service manager and two other telephone calls from the nice receptionist later someone calls her back on the intercom phone and my car is located. Its driven up to me by an asst. service manager who gets out, walks up to me, drops the keys in my hand, says "here you go" and walks away. No paperwork, no here is what we did, nothing.
I open the door and the interior is in a state of disarray. He has not removed the plastic covers on the seat. There are dirty paper floormats on the floor. There is grease smear 3 inches long on the rear right exterior fender, the door panel has grease on it by the speaker, the door sills have a combination of grease and black "boot" marks from shoes going over them. Mind you this is a brand new car with not a scratch on it. There was a technician in the passenger seat, he has turned the passenter floor mat upside down but they forgot to put it back, AND its dirty. The plastic seat covers and paper mats from the passenger side have been balled up and stuffed behind the passenger seat in the back.
I turn around to ask him to remove the "stuff" but he is already gone. I took all the crap out and handed it to the nice receptionist who shakes her head and smiles at me.
Facts right.... here are the pictures. I've removed the paper and plastic by the time I got my camera and have done my best to get the grease off of the door panel and the door sill. This is what is left AFTER cleaning them.
[url] http://web.mac.com/c.crocker/iWeb/Jag [/url]
No I was calm and scotch on the rocks is sounding better right now.
OK, just facts. I went to pick the car up today. I walk into the service cashier ask for my car. 10 minutes later, 3 intercom pages to the service manager and two other telephone calls from the nice receptionist later someone calls her back on the intercom phone and my car is located. Its driven up to me by an asst. service manager who gets out, walks up to me, drops the keys in my hand, says "here you go" and walks away. No paperwork, no here is what we did, nothing.
I open the door and the interior is in a state of disarray. He has not removed the plastic covers on the seat. There are dirty paper floormats on the floor. There is grease smear 3 inches long on the rear right exterior fender, the door panel has grease on it by the speaker, the door sills have a combination of grease and black "boot" marks from shoes going over them. Mind you this is a brand new car with not a scratch on it. There was a technician in the passenger seat, he has turned the passenter floor mat upside down but they forgot to put it back, AND its dirty. The plastic seat covers and paper mats from the passenger side have been balled up and stuffed behind the passenger seat in the back.
I turn around to ask him to remove the "stuff" but he is already gone. I took all the crap out and handed it to the nice receptionist who shakes her head and smiles at me.
Facts right.... here are the pictures. I've removed the paper and plastic by the time I got my camera and have done my best to get the grease off of the door panel and the door sill. This is what is left AFTER cleaning them.
[url] http://web.mac.com/c.crocker/iWeb/Jag [/url]
No I was calm and scotch on the rocks is sounding better right now.
I sure hope so....
Here is what happened yesterday when I picked up the XK... Man o man, what did I do in a former life?
------
It took the (nice) receptionist almost 15 minutes to locate my car. Three pages over the intercom ("customer waiting..."
and three phone calls later she finally got someone who could find my car.
The car was delivered back, the asst service manager gets out, drops the keys in my hands and walks away. No explanation, no paperwork, no nada. In the car are still the paper floormats with grease all over them and plastic covers over the seats. The drivers door sill has grease and boot marks all over it, the door panel has grease on the light cream carpet, the floormats are stained with oil under the paper floor mats and the seats are stained. Nice.... Thanks for taking such great care of my new car. Even Jiffy Lube doesn't get oil and grease all over your car, much less the service manager and an officaial technician from Jaguar New Jersey.
I sent an email to the G.M. of the dealership with photos and asked him to send out a detailer....
Here is a link to the full photos:
http://web.mac.com/c.crocker/iWeb/Jag
KinjaChris
http://therealjaguarexperience.blogsp
Here is what happened yesterday when I picked up the XK... Man o man, what did I do in a former life?
------
It took the (nice) receptionist almost 15 minutes to locate my car. Three pages over the intercom ("customer waiting..."
and three phone calls later she finally got someone who could find my car. The car was delivered back, the asst service manager gets out, drops the keys in my hands and walks away. No explanation, no paperwork, no nada. In the car are still the paper floormats with grease all over them and plastic covers over the seats. The drivers door sill has grease and boot marks all over it, the door panel has grease on the light cream carpet, the floormats are stained with oil under the paper floor mats and the seats are stained. Nice.... Thanks for taking such great care of my new car. Even Jiffy Lube doesn't get oil and grease all over your car, much less the service manager and an officaial technician from Jaguar New Jersey.
I sent an email to the G.M. of the dealership with photos and asked him to send out a detailer....
Here is a link to the full photos:
http://web.mac.com/c.crocker/iWeb/Jag
KinjaChris
http://therealjaguarexperience.blogsp
No question they are upset as I asked for them to fix my brand new motorcar that is making large metallic noises when driving up a hill. The first time in the service manager told me it wasn't possible as there are no problems with this car. Not sure what he is smoking but as far as I know there are no devices on planet earth that are mass produced without having a certain number of defects per thousand produced. Simply the laws of mass production and the reason there are so many number crucher types running around in our companies as six sigma black belts looking for 0.01% improvements.
I can tell you that I was concerned they would blame it on my attitude or demeanor so I was extremely careful to always remain calm, collected and friendly so there could be no blame placed on any of my actions as a 'bad' customer. I have been TOO nice to them, most people would be screaming but I realize that isn't going to do anyone any good. Our relationship has been purely a gentlemanly disagreement so they can't blame the service I'm receiving on me.
My guess is that I'm making the service manager look bad as corporate had to get involved and he couldn't "take care of it" without them. Most people in companies "manage up" rather than to their core customers who are the reasons they get paychecks. Sad state of business world-wide. Customer centric companies flourish, silo internal mentatlity corporations flounder and die.
So here is my issue.... nearest Jag dealer is over an hour away. Why do I have to drive over an hour to another dealership when there is one 10 minutes from my house?
Point noted though and it is a good idea. I might take you up on this thought. Thanks.
I can tell you that I was concerned they would blame it on my attitude or demeanor so I was extremely careful to always remain calm, collected and friendly so there could be no blame placed on any of my actions as a 'bad' customer. I have been TOO nice to them, most people would be screaming but I realize that isn't going to do anyone any good. Our relationship has been purely a gentlemanly disagreement so they can't blame the service I'm receiving on me.
My guess is that I'm making the service manager look bad as corporate had to get involved and he couldn't "take care of it" without them. Most people in companies "manage up" rather than to their core customers who are the reasons they get paychecks. Sad state of business world-wide. Customer centric companies flourish, silo internal mentatlity corporations flounder and die.
So here is my issue.... nearest Jag dealer is over an hour away. Why do I have to drive over an hour to another dealership when there is one 10 minutes from my house?
Point noted though and it is a good idea. I might take you up on this thought. Thanks.
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