RS4 service interval and owners
Discussion
TT - no luck the other week...went to the RR the next day after the 'fixes' - power still the same...
Have my pics now tho'...I suggested (on the information from an excellent third party who looked at the pics) to Audi to complete a leak down test & compression test. This is being done Tuesday...
Have my pics now tho'...I suggested (on the information from an excellent third party who looked at the pics) to Audi to complete a leak down test & compression test. This is being done Tuesday...
I read on RS246 that there was a rolling road day. 20 cars or so with a range of power from 400 to 300. Is there any chance you can get people to post their power graphs. The power figures published probably mean alot to you guys as customers of very expensive cars, but as a technician the numbers to me are nothing, its the shape of the graphs I'm interested in. Would like to know if all the ones down on power have the same torque curve as yours.
Looking at the graph you posted before its the missing torque above 3500rpm thats the problem, Once its back where it should be you should have around 370bhp. I know thats not 414, but for me that would be the car fixed.
The cylinder leakage and compression test should prove once and for all if (A) the valves are sealing correctly, and (B) if there is any undue bore wear. Personally I think the car will pass these test no problem, I dont think your lack of power has anything to do with the carbon on the valves ( but many people on RS246 seem to disagree with me). Your car seems to make the right amount of torque at 3000, it wouldn't do if the valves weren't sealing (in my opinion), it just cant make that torque at 6000 and it should do. When you have cars with troublesome fault you have to go back to basics and start with these tests, other wise you could spend weeks trying a testing various things and then find no one actually checked the engine had good compression etc, and all your other test are meaningless if the engine isnt mechanically sound to start with.
My personal belief is there is a fault on the car (engine management related, not actually a worn or mechanically faultly engine) that is preventing it from making the correct amount of torque at higher rpm. The trouble is there are lots of things that could do this. Could be a vacuum leak preventing the manifold flaps or air box power valve opening, or even an issue with the cam chain tensioners especially the variable valve timing element, Air mass or throttle position sensors etc. It will be hard to find, (especially if it isnt logging any fault codes) but once found the improvement should be instantly noticeable.
I was at MK last week doing the petrol engine specialist training, and was asking about your car, I got 2 or 3 power graphs from known good cars Audi UK had tested at Independent rolling roads, they all showed 370-388bhp, but crucially had virtually identical power and toque curves regardless of actual headline figure.
Official word from AUDI is the carbon on the valve is a byproduct of direct injection and effects every car, regardless of brand, with direct injection, as such is not a FAULT. However, as I keep saying we at dealer level have to do what we are told by AUDI UK, you on the other hand are a customer and AUDI UK take your opinion very seriously much more so than mine, get the number for Audi customer service and Give them a hard time if you are unhappy with the carbon situation. I would ask that you consider are the Audi centre staff trying there hardest to resolve this for you, it sounds to me like they are. SO when you speak to customer services you are annoyed at AUDI UK for making a car that carbons up its valves, not annoyed at the center who cannot fix your car. If every one on RS246 rang customer services and said I'm not happy about my valves, they would surly have to do something about it. I think they extended the warranty on DRC faults purely because of customer power.
Please let me know how it goes, and if possible lets upload some power graphs. I cant give you my email address as it gives away which Audi centre I work at, and given I am very outspoken about what good and whats bad about Audi I cannot allow this information to be on a public forum.
Looking at the graph you posted before its the missing torque above 3500rpm thats the problem, Once its back where it should be you should have around 370bhp. I know thats not 414, but for me that would be the car fixed.
The cylinder leakage and compression test should prove once and for all if (A) the valves are sealing correctly, and (B) if there is any undue bore wear. Personally I think the car will pass these test no problem, I dont think your lack of power has anything to do with the carbon on the valves ( but many people on RS246 seem to disagree with me). Your car seems to make the right amount of torque at 3000, it wouldn't do if the valves weren't sealing (in my opinion), it just cant make that torque at 6000 and it should do. When you have cars with troublesome fault you have to go back to basics and start with these tests, other wise you could spend weeks trying a testing various things and then find no one actually checked the engine had good compression etc, and all your other test are meaningless if the engine isnt mechanically sound to start with.
My personal belief is there is a fault on the car (engine management related, not actually a worn or mechanically faultly engine) that is preventing it from making the correct amount of torque at higher rpm. The trouble is there are lots of things that could do this. Could be a vacuum leak preventing the manifold flaps or air box power valve opening, or even an issue with the cam chain tensioners especially the variable valve timing element, Air mass or throttle position sensors etc. It will be hard to find, (especially if it isnt logging any fault codes) but once found the improvement should be instantly noticeable.
I was at MK last week doing the petrol engine specialist training, and was asking about your car, I got 2 or 3 power graphs from known good cars Audi UK had tested at Independent rolling roads, they all showed 370-388bhp, but crucially had virtually identical power and toque curves regardless of actual headline figure.
Official word from AUDI is the carbon on the valve is a byproduct of direct injection and effects every car, regardless of brand, with direct injection, as such is not a FAULT. However, as I keep saying we at dealer level have to do what we are told by AUDI UK, you on the other hand are a customer and AUDI UK take your opinion very seriously much more so than mine, get the number for Audi customer service and Give them a hard time if you are unhappy with the carbon situation. I would ask that you consider are the Audi centre staff trying there hardest to resolve this for you, it sounds to me like they are. SO when you speak to customer services you are annoyed at AUDI UK for making a car that carbons up its valves, not annoyed at the center who cannot fix your car. If every one on RS246 rang customer services and said I'm not happy about my valves, they would surly have to do something about it. I think they extended the warranty on DRC faults purely because of customer power.
Please let me know how it goes, and if possible lets upload some power graphs. I cant give you my email address as it gives away which Audi centre I work at, and given I am very outspoken about what good and whats bad about Audi I cannot allow this information to be on a public forum.
Edited by Tame Technician on Monday 25th May 15:43
Tame Technician said:
I think they extended the warranty on DRC faults purely because of customer power.
purely because of people on rs246 actually, very glad too as I am no in possession of a letter from Audi UK covering my DRC for 5 yearswould be interested to see what you think of the graphs from the RR (think you can see them if you register on rs246), most were unhappy at the results but moreso the wide variation of results which reduces the chances that the RR is to blame
Tame Technician said:
Sorry I keep going on about power graphs.
What I really mean is graphs that show the Torque curve as well as power. The TORQUE curve is the important bit, to understand whats going on with your engine.
This is the RS246 thread.What I really mean is graphs that show the Torque curve as well as power. The TORQUE curve is the important bit, to understand whats going on with your engine.
You'll have to look through to see the results, page 13 onward then later the power graphs.
You were right TT - all tests within normal tolerance levels.
The dealer wanted me to pick up the car...Phoned Audi UK - they couldn't understand that...? Said they would contact & let me know what was going to happen.
If a fault cannot be diagnosed locally, can the Techs at Audi UK take the car in?
Will post the dyno pics tomorrow.
Regards,
Mac
The dealer wanted me to pick up the car...Phoned Audi UK - they couldn't understand that...? Said they would contact & let me know what was going to happen.
If a fault cannot be diagnosed locally, can the Techs at Audi UK take the car in?
Will post the dyno pics tomorrow.
Regards,
Mac
TT - keeping it brief, they are 'washing their hands' of my problem.
They say there are no faults that can be found; have done all the tests they can do; have tested my car against Mr Wilson's happy car on the local roads; there is no where in the UK my car can be driven above the legal limit (where the problem exists); think that Rolling Road figs are misleading, so basically they might well have said **** off!).
Quite sad really, but expected from a company that has an apalling record of managing faults - oh yes the dreaded RS6 and (now) RS4 DRC problem.
Is this another cover up of a potential problem, people that don't know what they are doing, can't really be bothered to get to the source of the problem, cost/potential cost mitigation, and people like myself standing up for our rights - who knows, only the BIG BROTHER giant corporation does.
The only reason that I sound heated is the inconsistent treatment from the start of my problem, and I'm now left with a car that is under-powered and which hesitates at high speeds.
By the way TT, BIG BROTHER informed me that they have been reading these posts, SO (assuming you are not the BB of your organisation?) you should watch what you say on here - cause they are watching you!!
If you want to comment direct to me without giving your identity away - PM me thro' RS246.
Thanks for your input.
Regards,
Mac
NB: TO BIG BROTHER - It's no use saying, ''We are doing our best''. You have got to succeed in doing what is necessary...
They say there are no faults that can be found; have done all the tests they can do; have tested my car against Mr Wilson's happy car on the local roads; there is no where in the UK my car can be driven above the legal limit (where the problem exists); think that Rolling Road figs are misleading, so basically they might well have said **** off!).
Quite sad really, but expected from a company that has an apalling record of managing faults - oh yes the dreaded RS6 and (now) RS4 DRC problem.
Is this another cover up of a potential problem, people that don't know what they are doing, can't really be bothered to get to the source of the problem, cost/potential cost mitigation, and people like myself standing up for our rights - who knows, only the BIG BROTHER giant corporation does.
The only reason that I sound heated is the inconsistent treatment from the start of my problem, and I'm now left with a car that is under-powered and which hesitates at high speeds.
By the way TT, BIG BROTHER informed me that they have been reading these posts, SO (assuming you are not the BB of your organisation?) you should watch what you say on here - cause they are watching you!!
If you want to comment direct to me without giving your identity away - PM me thro' RS246.
Thanks for your input.
Regards,
Mac
NB: TO BIG BROTHER - It's no use saying, ''We are doing our best''. You have got to succeed in doing what is necessary...
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