£32000(thirty two frickin thousand for a Griff!!!!!!!!!! )
Discussion
900T-R said:
DonkeyApple said:
There's an interesting thought. How many truly original, as God intended, Griffs are there? Plus, at present modded ones are possibly fetching more but would this factor end up switching?
How many TVRs left the factory as God intended anyway? As far as I'm concerned even latter-day TVRs are 'kit cars' to an extent as they were conceptually brilliant, but only 95% finished as delivered to the customer. Show me a punter who prefers a Grim on standard suspension and I'll show you someone who is scared of their car and wants to polish it in their garage rather than driving the wheels off it.
900T-R said:
DonkeyApple said:
There's an interesting thought. How many truly original, as God intended, Griffs are there? Plus, at present modded ones are possibly fetching more but would this factor end up switching?
How many TVRs left the factory as God intended anyway? As far as I'm concerned even latter-day TVRs are 'kit cars' to an extent as they were conceptually brilliant, but only 95% finished as delivered to the customer. Show me a punter who prefers a Grim on standard suspension and I'll show you someone who is scared of their car and wants to polish it in their garage rather than driving the wheels off it.
The 'kit car' angle will continue to diminish with time. It was quite a strong memory when we went out and bought Griffs and Chimps in the early 90s but I think it's fair to say that it has faded quite strongly with each year of full, conventional production. And been replaced with a growing notion of bespoke English craftwork. Time tends to fade the negative and enhance the positives.
I do suspect that in 20 years time you'll find an absolutely mint Griff with it's original walnut effect dash and light pods etc fetching more than one with retro fitted dash, leven bits etc.
It just tends to be the way it goes as the ale drinking, bi-foculled nerds take control of defining the product with their pedant natures. Let's face it the classic car market is defined by old people who were too young or poor to buy the car they loved 2 to 3 decades earlier. And over that 2/3 decades they have spent their time studiously pouring over every detail of the car and planning for that perfect moment.
I'm pretty sure that the Griff owners of 20 years hence will not be the same people as us, for the most part.
DonkeyApple said:
And would it be fair to say that the ones which will be most valuable will be the ones which have not been modified in any way?
There's an interesting thought. How many truly original, as God intended, Griffs are there? Plus, at present modded ones are possibly fetching more but would this factor end up switching?
Would an Aston in original state fetch more than one with a load of different bits fitted to it? Once you start getting into real classic territory then I suspect that originality starts to become a keen factor.
Well as an Aston owner, a Griff owner and a brother who's a Healey 3000 owner you've hit the button. Originality is of interest to people buying older cars, my Aston is 50+ and John's Healey is 40+ but also history and patina. So, an Aston modified in a documented way in the 50's with a running history of those mod's could possibly be worth a premium over a standard car, e.g. there is a DB2/4 which the owner modified in stages during the late 50's and it ended up with a supercharger, the mod's were written up in the journals at the time and it's now worth a lot of money. Likewise a DB MkIII modified for running at Bonneville. On the other hand if you are talking about a car which has had plastic flared arches bonded on in the 70's then forget it. Fact is that Griffs are scarce and easily modified/corrected. Ultimately history, condition, patina will all contribute to the value of the car and no one thing will make it valuable. As for this current interest in the last 100 (run out cars) that will pass because the differences are minor, it's not as if they were modified by Zegato and raced at Le Mans - a la DB4GT/Healey 100S - it was a cosmetic upgrade/alteration to maintain interest in the cars as sales were dropping off. All good Griffs will appreciate in value but as has been said, a Griff is a Griff, some like the pre-cats, some the BVs and 'so called BVs', some the 500s as the most refined and some the some the exclusivness of the LE badge. Pay your money and take your choice. There's an interesting thought. How many truly original, as God intended, Griffs are there? Plus, at present modded ones are possibly fetching more but would this factor end up switching?
Would an Aston in original state fetch more than one with a load of different bits fitted to it? Once you start getting into real classic territory then I suspect that originality starts to become a keen factor.
RichB said:
DonkeyApple said:
And would it be fair to say that the ones which will be most valuable will be the ones which have not been modified in any way?
There's an interesting thought. How many truly original, as God intended, Griffs are there? Plus, at present modded ones are possibly fetching more but would this factor end up switching?
Would an Aston in original state fetch more than one with a load of different bits fitted to it? Once you start getting into real classic territory then I suspect that originality starts to become a keen factor.
Well as an Aston owner, a Griff owner and a brother who's a Healey 3000 owner you've hit the button. Originality is of interest to people buying older cars, my Aston is 50+ and John's Healey is 40+ but also history and patina. So, an Aston modified in a documented way in the 50's with a running history of those mod's could possibly be worth a premium over a standard car, e.g. there is a DB2/4 which the owner modified in stages during the late 50's and it ended up with a supercharger, the mod's were written up in the journals at the time and it's now worth a lot of money. Likewise a DB MkIII modified for running at Bonneville. On the other hand if you are talking about a car which has had plastic flared arches bonded on in the 70's then forget it. Fact is that Griffs are scarce and easily modified/corrected. Ultimately history, condition, patina will all contribute to the value of the car and no one thing will make it valuable. As for this current interest in the last 100 (run out cars) that will pass because the differences are minor, it's not as if they were modified by Zegato and raced at Le Mans - a la DB4GT/Healey 100S - it was a cosmetic upgrade/alteration to maintain interest in the cars as sales were dropping off. All good Griffs will appreciate in value but as has been said, a Griff is a Griff, some like the pre-cats, some the BVs and 'so called BVs', some the 500s as the most refined and some the some the exclusivness of the LE badge. Pay your money and take your choice. There's an interesting thought. How many truly original, as God intended, Griffs are there? Plus, at present modded ones are possibly fetching more but would this factor end up switching?
Would an Aston in original state fetch more than one with a load of different bits fitted to it? Once you start getting into real classic territory then I suspect that originality starts to become a keen factor.
Another phenomenon in classic car values is AC Ace's (never mind Cobras). 10 years ago you could have bought an Ace Bristol for c.£40k. They are now knocking on the door of £200k.
RichB said:
DonkeyApple said:
And would it be fair to say that the ones which will be most valuable will be the ones which have not been modified in any way?
There's an interesting thought. How many truly original, as God intended, Griffs are there? Plus, at present modded ones are possibly fetching more but would this factor end up switching?
Would an Aston in original state fetch more than one with a load of different bits fitted to it? Once you start getting into real classic territory then I suspect that originality starts to become a keen factor.
As for this current interest in the last 100 (run out cars) that will pass because the differences are minor, it's not as if they were modified by Zegato and raced at Le Mans - a la DB4GT/Healey 100S - it was a cosmetic upgrade/alteration to maintain interest in the cars as sales were dropping off. There's an interesting thought. How many truly original, as God intended, Griffs are there? Plus, at present modded ones are possibly fetching more but would this factor end up switching?
Would an Aston in original state fetch more than one with a load of different bits fitted to it? Once you start getting into real classic territory then I suspect that originality starts to become a keen factor.
DonkeyApple said:
I'm pretty sure that the Griff owners of 20 years hence will not be the same people as us, for the most part.
OTOH there's a growing faction of folks who want to use their classics and don't accept that their car overheats and that the brakes are useless - that's the kind of market that buys £200K Eagle E-Types. Right now, the market doesn't really bear doing a Griffith or Chimaera properly (although the Dutch TVR importers are completely rebuilding a '96 Griff from the ground up right now with a 5.2 litre Austec-built engine, aluminium radiator, stainless braided high grade fuel lines and fittings, ACT twin plenum, uprated brakes (both of the latter already on the car when they took it apart), body will have all the little irregularities taken out before it gets sprayed in a custom colour, bespoke interior etc; I'd say the total cost will be near six figures) but as values rise I think we'll be seeing this more. It's the aftermarket wheels, light conversions, cheap adjustable suspension, questionable interior retrims etc. that will lose out.
Edited by 900T-R on Friday 23 April 12:08
DonkeyApple said:
RichB said:
DonkeyApple said:
And would it be fair to say that the ones which will be most valuable will be the ones which have not been modified in any way?
There's an interesting thought. How many truly original, as God intended, Griffs are there? Plus, at present modded ones are possibly fetching more but would this factor end up switching?
Would an Aston in original state fetch more than one with a load of different bits fitted to it? Once you start getting into real classic territory then I suspect that originality starts to become a keen factor.
As for this current interest in the last 100 (run out cars) that will pass because the differences are minor, it's not as if they were modified by Zegato and raced at Le Mans - a la DB4GT/Healey 100S - it was a cosmetic upgrade/alteration to maintain interest in the cars as sales were dropping off. There's an interesting thought. How many truly original, as God intended, Griffs are there? Plus, at present modded ones are possibly fetching more but would this factor end up switching?
Would an Aston in original state fetch more than one with a load of different bits fitted to it? Once you start getting into real classic territory then I suspect that originality starts to become a keen factor.
You'll have the wrath of the entire population of SE owners on you for that! 900T-R said:
DonkeyApple said:
I'm pretty sure that the Griff owners of 20 years hence will not be the same people as us, for the most part.
OTOH there's a growing faction of folks who want to use their classics and don't accept that their car overheats and that the brakes are useless - that's the kind of market that buys £200K Eagle E-Types. Right now, the market doesn't really bear doing a Griffith or Chimaera properly (although the Dutch TVR importers are completely rebuilding a '96 Griff from the ground up right now with a 5.2 litre Austec-built engine, aluminium radiator, stainless braided high grade fuel lines and fittings, ACT twin plenum, uprated brakes (both of the latter already on the car when they took it apart), body will have all the little irregularities taken out before it gets sprayed in a custom colour, bespoke interior etc; I'd say the total cost will be near six figures) but as values rise I think we'll be seeing this more. It's the aftermarket wheels, light conversions, cheap adjustable suspension, questionable interior retrims etc. that will lose out.
Edited by 900T-R on Friday 23 April 12:08
I have changed the dampers on my SE but I have kept the old ones to pass on to the buyer in case I ever sell the car. I think that some collectors/buyers will want that sort of originality even if they never actually fit them.
Problem is the spilt paint in the boot - new carpet or paint splattered original: patina like ya know...
L.F.
Problem is the spilt paint in the boot - new carpet or paint splattered original: patina like ya know...
L.F.
lockhart flawse said:
I have changed the dampers on my SE but I have kept the old ones to pass on to the buyer in case I ever sell the car. I think that some collectors/buyers will want that sort of originality even if they never actually fit them.
Bugger - anyone got any old original TVR dampers I can dump in a box in the garage in case at some future date my Nitrons are considered a faux pas! I think Racing Green chucked them in a skip 
RichB said:
900T-R said:
cheap adjustable suspension
As opposed to the even cheaper non-adjustable standard kit, yeah as if anyone will say "Oh look joy of joy it's got the orighinal 30 year old, clapped out Bilstens on that adds a few grand to the value." 
Although the latter may not apply either when the car in question sits on HBEs...
lockhart flawse said:
I have changed the dampers on my SE but I have kept the old ones to pass on to the buyer in case I ever sell the car. I think that some collectors/buyers will want that sort of originality even if they never actually fit them.
Agree, i've kept all the old bits i've changed/upgraded (Apart from the cam that is ) Shocks, Orange indicators, Old candle headlights/Pods (Now have 7" ) etc etc....Even have the old squishy inlet hose not that i can imagine anyone ever putting it or any of the other bits back on
RichB said:
DonkeyApple said:
RichB said:
DonkeyApple said:
And would it be fair to say that the ones which will be most valuable will be the ones which have not been modified in any way?
There's an interesting thought. How many truly original, as God intended, Griffs are there? Plus, at present modded ones are possibly fetching more but would this factor end up switching?
Would an Aston in original state fetch more than one with a load of different bits fitted to it? Once you start getting into real classic territory then I suspect that originality starts to become a keen factor.
As for this current interest in the last 100 (run out cars) that will pass because the differences are minor, it's not as if they were modified by Zegato and raced at Le Mans - a la DB4GT/Healey 100S - it was a cosmetic upgrade/alteration to maintain interest in the cars as sales were dropping off. There's an interesting thought. How many truly original, as God intended, Griffs are there? Plus, at present modded ones are possibly fetching more but would this factor end up switching?
Would an Aston in original state fetch more than one with a load of different bits fitted to it? Once you start getting into real classic territory then I suspect that originality starts to become a keen factor.
You'll have the wrath of the entire population of SE owners on you for that! Look at the Bread van Ferrari, it's a repulsive looking thing in my eyes and yet it's worth a small fortune. The one thing I've maintained throughout the mod's of my Griffith is that it appears to the observer (other than the brakes) exactly as it left the factory. I also think that's how it looks best as well.
I think originality will be important, but by the time they reach 'proper' money and people are worrying about dampers I'll be dead. I hope in some ways the Griffith doesn't end up like the E type, there's so many of them that never get a drive, concourse competitions are decided by whether you had a mild steel or stainless steel exhaust because one is more original than the other . . . all of that drives me to distraction . .
The majority of modifications undertaken by Griffith owners are very well documented, understood by the owners in general and are therefore sympathetic, easily documented and will likely be considered as improvements and worth while upgrades later on if they do reach classic status. It's one of the reasons I went with TVR AP's rather than non branded calipers for example, at least it's within the remit of TVR.
Yes, there will be men with beards who like straw in their beer grumbling that their original Griffith doesn't have a brake upgrade, it's still got those nice ones from Ford. They'll bemoan the superchargers as they weren't ever a factory option, they'll whine endlessly about dampers . . .. but f
k em, what they really do is trailer it to a show, want everyone to marvel at it and then they'll trailer it home. Hopefully most owners will agree how fine their car is and then crack on driving and enjoying their own one and be glad that Norbert Mcboring is doing a great job of single handedly polishing his trunnions to within an inch of their life, has spent the last 15mths painstakingly making his handbrake not quite work properly because that's how they left the factory and searching through the Beaulieu auto for a fully broken clock to make sure it's authentic. . . He will have a cassette deck as the stereo and will make sure the radiator is not quite efficient enough so it will overheat, he'll make sure he systematically forgets which black button does what so that he opens the boot every time he tries to do something else . . .. his loft will be a haven of Vauxhall air vents and he'll know the merits of the various wiper blades available . . . .Ask him about cam's, I dare you, just go on, do it . . . . 9hrs later . . .
However, we need these people, they are the keepers of history, I just don't wanna spend time with them for a protracted period !
Johno said:
.
Ask him about cam's, I dare you, just go on, do it . . . . 9hrs later . . .
However, we need these people, they are the keepers of history, I just don't wanna spend time with them for a protracted period !
well said JohnoAsk him about cam's, I dare you, just go on, do it . . . . 9hrs later . . .
However, we need these people, they are the keepers of history, I just don't wanna spend time with them for a protracted period !
you must type for a living, or have very sore finger tips
Johno said:
The one thing I've maintained throughout the mod's of my Griffith is that it appears to the observer (other than the brakes) exactly as it left the factory. I also think that's how it looks best as well...
... It's one of the reasons I went with TVR AP's rather than non branded calipers for example, at least it's within the remit of TVR.
Aside from not having a clue what you mean about the spelling of Cerbera I agree with you on the rest of it which is why I did exactly the same. ... It's one of the reasons I went with TVR AP's rather than non branded calipers for example, at least it's within the remit of TVR.
RichB said:
Johno said:
...you dug me out of my spelling of Cerbera the other day) ...
Not me - you've got the wrong person... Johno said:
RichB said:
Johno said:
...an upgrade to better seats (Cerberra)
Is that a cross between a Cerbera and a Canberra? Just not always when I need it !!IMHO the Griff is a bit special, I have had a Chim and two T350ts, but I still remember the day I saw a Griff when they were new, what a car! I think I have found one to buy and if I sell my T350t tomorrow I will buy one. I am a little tempted by a final edition Chim but the Griff is the Daddy.
Now prepare yourself, I am told that Fernhurst are about to sell the last of the LE 100 of 100 and they want £40K, now that is silly. A 2005 /06 plate V8 Vantage Roadster is about $55K. What fun
Now prepare yourself, I am told that Fernhurst are about to sell the last of the LE 100 of 100 and they want £40K, now that is silly. A 2005 /06 plate V8 Vantage Roadster is about $55K. What fun
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