Discussion
Has anyone here ridden a KTM single.
I have.
Like most thumpers, it brings a whole new meaning to the term "Engine Vibration"
Argument dismissed
NB: A KTM 150 is a feckin 2 stroke single at that!
Ring, ding a ping...pop goes the piston...
You couldn't have picked a more dissimilar and irrelevant attempt to discredit the IX plug if you'd tried.
REMINDER: We are discussing spark plugs for a FOUR stroke EIGHT cylinder car engine with (in modern terms) a relatively low compression ratio!
I rest my case me lud
I have.
Like most thumpers, it brings a whole new meaning to the term "Engine Vibration"
Argument dismissed
NB: A KTM 150 is a feckin 2 stroke single at that!
Ring, ding a ping...pop goes the piston...
You couldn't have picked a more dissimilar and irrelevant attempt to discredit the IX plug if you'd tried.
REMINDER: We are discussing spark plugs for a FOUR stroke EIGHT cylinder car engine with (in modern terms) a relatively low compression ratio!
I rest my case me lud
Edited by ChimpofDarkness on Wednesday 13th February 15:10
Im interested to know in what exactly goes on at the spark tip to improve the engines performance? To improve it, you must improve the burn process in the combustion chamber in some way and you don’t have a lot of variables to play with in terms of the spark itself. It only has to be hot enough and long enough to reliably ignite the mixture and initiate a reliable flame front, and then its job is done. The rest is down to the combustion chamber design, fuel and compression. You can certainly put more energy into the spark, but once the flame front has started, the remaining arc simply burns the electrode away. ( Remember the big thing in the 1980- capacitive discharge ignition? Ultra high HT voltages and energies- now disappeared without trace on normal petrol engines).
If the improvements on the RV8 are so marked changing the electrode design, I’m sure a simple gas test on the rolling road will show reduced hydrocarbons as better combustion takes place but for any test to be fair, you need new components to start with for a before and after test. There is a big tendency to compare before and after when the original components where knackered anyway, so the results will always be skewed.
As far as I can see the big advantage of the non shrouded plug is it has a wider heat range, so it remains cleaner and less carbon means less HT leakage to ground meaning you get a reliable spark, even when the available coil energy is reduced at high RPM or cranking currents, but Im open to suggestions….
If the improvements on the RV8 are so marked changing the electrode design, I’m sure a simple gas test on the rolling road will show reduced hydrocarbons as better combustion takes place but for any test to be fair, you need new components to start with for a before and after test. There is a big tendency to compare before and after when the original components where knackered anyway, so the results will always be skewed.
As far as I can see the big advantage of the non shrouded plug is it has a wider heat range, so it remains cleaner and less carbon means less HT leakage to ground meaning you get a reliable spark, even when the available coil energy is reduced at high RPM or cranking currents, but Im open to suggestions….
Question: How do you burn a mixture of 10% methanol & 90% nitromethane at 8,250rpm with 45.5lbs of boost to produce 8,000hp and do this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yuyLOlgMu70
Answer: With twin 44amp magnetos generating 50,000 volts and a set of these:
Look closely at the electrode on the above Autolite AR5383 & just imagine what they could do if those dumb ass American Top Fuel drag mechanics only knew about the shrouded B7ECS TVR fitted.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yuyLOlgMu70
Answer: With twin 44amp magnetos generating 50,000 volts and a set of these:
Look closely at the electrode on the above Autolite AR5383 & just imagine what they could do if those dumb ass American Top Fuel drag mechanics only knew about the shrouded B7ECS TVR fitted.
Edited by ChimpofDarkness on Wednesday 13th February 18:34
ChimpofDarkness said:
Has anyone here ridden a KTM single.
I have.
Like most thumpers, it brings a whole new meaning to the term "Engine Vibration"
Argument dismissed
NB: A KTM 150 is a feckin 2 stroke single at that!
Ring, ding a ping...pop goes the piston...
You couldn't have picked a more dissimilar and irrelevant attempt to discredit the IX plug if you'd tried.
REMINDER: We are discussing spark plugs for a FOUR stroke EIGHT cylinder car engine with (in modern terms) a relatively low compression ratio!
I rest my case me lud
Eh? WTF are you wittering on about now? An IC engine is an IC engine, fuel is burned after being compressed to make the engine turn and to produce heat which has to be managed. In the scenarios we are looking at the fuel is ignited by a spark in both cases. If you really want to trade two stroke technicalities then might be worth starting by recognising the fundamental fact as seems to escape you that two-stroke CRs are inherently lower than four-strokes due to how gases enter and exit the engine (they compensate for this by firing twice as often of course). They can be prone to detonation when tuned but that's no different to four strokes being pushed beyond their design envelopes is it; both will suffer damage if the detonation is severe enough. Have a read of yet more advice from the fI have.
Like most thumpers, it brings a whole new meaning to the term "Engine Vibration"
Argument dismissed
NB: A KTM 150 is a feckin 2 stroke single at that!
Ring, ding a ping...pop goes the piston...
You couldn't have picked a more dissimilar and irrelevant attempt to discredit the IX plug if you'd tried.
REMINDER: We are discussing spark plugs for a FOUR stroke EIGHT cylinder car engine with (in modern terms) a relatively low compression ratio!
I rest my case me lud
Edited by ChimpofDarkness on Wednesday 13th February 15:10
king manufacturer of the things and then it might dawn on you that you're advocating people both increase the latent heat of the plug (by going from a 7 to a 6) whilst also compromising the ability for the plug to transfer heat away from the tip to the head (by increasing the amount of projection). Frankly, IDGAS if you want to play pre-ignition roulette with your engine but I do care if your urgings on here result in someone else unwittingly grenading an otherwise good motor that was operating on the safe side of the det threshold until you 'improved' things for them. ChimpofDarkness said:
Question: How do you burn a mixture of 10% methanol & 90% nitromethane at 8,250rpm with 45.5lbs of boost to produce 8,000hp and do this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yuyLOlgMu70
Answer: With twin 44amp magnetos generating 50,000 volts and a set of these:
Look closely at the electrode on the above Autolite AR5383 & just imagine what they could do if those dumb ass American Top Fuel drag mechanics only knew about the shrouded B7ECS TVR fitted.
Well, considering the sheer volume of fuel that has to be delivered in a nitro engine, where an AFR of 1 or even 0.5 would typically be run at a 95% mix (according to A. Graham Bell and compared to 14.7 stoich on petrol), and given its drastically slower burn rate, coupled with the need to run CRs of (typically) 'only' 7:1, it's hardly surprising a projecting plug is used. They are also changed every 440 yards! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yuyLOlgMu70
Answer: With twin 44amp magnetos generating 50,000 volts and a set of these:
Look closely at the electrode on the above Autolite AR5383 & just imagine what they could do if those dumb ass American Top Fuel drag mechanics only knew about the shrouded B7ECS TVR fitted.
carsy said:
Yes, that is what they left the factory with.
Just like they all left the factory with incorrectly wired immobilisers, no relay in the start circuit, leaks, string thin 7ft starter cables, unacceptably high parasitic battery drains ect ect ect.In a TVR, original is not always best
MPoxon said:
I have always run NGK NGKB7ECS, changed once a year.... Never had any problems.
Interesting what you say about the Iridium plugs, technology moves on and I must say I am impressed with the improvement Magnecor leads gave over OEM so maybe time to look at the latest spark plugs too.
I haven't had any problems with the standard plugs either.....but i read CoD's post with interest regarding Iridium 6s, so I thought would try them.Interesting what you say about the Iridium plugs, technology moves on and I must say I am impressed with the improvement Magnecor leads gave over OEM so maybe time to look at the latest spark plugs too.
I have to say that then car runs better on them. In particular, the throttle response is much sharper and the engine therefore seems to rev more freely. I had new plug leads at the same time.
The only other thing i have noticed is that my idle, when slowing down from spirited driving, does sometimes seem to stick at around 1600 rpm, but I would suspect an ECU issue or a stepper motor issue. It did tend to stick at around 1200 rpm before I changed the plugs, but not as high as 1600 rpm.
QBee said:
I haven't had any problems with the standard plugs either.....but i read CoD's post with interest regarding Iridium 6s, so I thought would try them.
I have to say that then car runs better on them. In particular, the throttle response is much sharper and the engine therefore seems to rev more freely. I had new plug leads at the same time.
The only other thing i have noticed is that my idle, when slowing down from spirited driving, does sometimes seem to stick at around 1600 rpm, but I would suspect an ECU issue or a stepper motor issue. It did tend to stick at around 1200 rpm before I changed the plugs, but not as high as 1600 rpm.
Hi QBee, firstly I would say you clearly had a raised idle issue from the outset.I have to say that then car runs better on them. In particular, the throttle response is much sharper and the engine therefore seems to rev more freely. I had new plug leads at the same time.
The only other thing i have noticed is that my idle, when slowing down from spirited driving, does sometimes seem to stick at around 1600 rpm, but I would suspect an ECU issue or a stepper motor issue. It did tend to stick at around 1200 rpm before I changed the plugs, but not as high as 1600 rpm.
You need to follow the base idle setting process I emailed you & things should improve dramatically.
It's no coincidence your idle became even more elevated when you moved to the iridium plugs, in fact is a quite common side effect of fitting these plugs.
The reason is simple, the iridium plugs are delivering better combustion particularly at idle, this has the knock on effect of raising your idle speed.
It's actually a good sign, when I fitted these plugs my idle immediately became raised by 200rpm, requiring a small adjustment of the idle screw to correct.
Once you have followed my base idle setting instructions you should enjoy a far smoother idle at the correct 850 - 950rpm, dependant on your cam profile you may prefer 1000rpm.
I'm pleased you found the NGK BPR6EIX iridium gave noticeable improvements in throttle response, once you have corrected your base idle you should find the car starts better cold & idles far smoother too.
Who'll be next to fit these excellent plugs and report back here how they performed?
Dave.
NB: A raised idle after rapidly reducing speed to arrive at a junction is often related to the problematic TVR made speed signal box that sits under the dash, or more typically it's connection at the speedo head.
This little box of tricks is required as the 14CUX ECU needs to see a speed signal, it's all about avoiding a stall as you approach a junction.
This is all handled reliably in a Range Rover, but because TVR fitted a different speedo they needed to create a box of electronics to give the ECU a corrected speed signal from their chosen speedo.
The TVR speed signal box is unreliable and is often the root cause of idle issues, especially if it's after you have reduced speed rapidly.
You can demonstrate this ECU speed signal function my disconnecting the white multi-plug at the back of your speedo & going for a drive.
You will notice the car now stalls at junctions.
It's these speed signal box faults commonly caused by a bad connection at the speedo head or interference (noisy signal), that often has people mistakenly removing & cleaning the much maligned stepper motor.
The poor old stepper motor is actually quite a reliable little fella, but it is rather dumb, by that I mean it doesn't think for itself, it only really does what it's told by the ECU.
It's not the stepper motor at fault, it's the ECU controlling it, and the poor old ECU is just trying to work out what to do when it has a bad or non-existent speed signal.
You've got to get to the source of the problem, & thats the speed signal box & it's associated connections to the speedo & ECU.
Often the solution is very simple, just remove the connector at the back of the speedo and carefully clean the connections.
The simple disconnection & reconnection of the multi-plug is often enough to completely resolve the fault.
Edited by ChimpofDarkness on Friday 15th February 12:18
blitzracing said:
The soldering on the Multiplug to the PCB can be very suspect- if flows over the connecter, (so it looks OK from the PCB) but does not flow into the connector metal and join. The fix is to remove the solder and use some plumbing flux to clean the metal before resoldering.
Sorry, which PCB?There is a multiplug the connects to the PCB in the speedo calibration unit found under the dash that generates the speed signal. There is a simple test you can do- get the engine warm and let it idle, then disconnect the stepper. Then go for a run and see if the idle is stable or sticks high- if it sticks high its something mechanical or an air leak, as the stepper is now not controlling the idle.
Gassing Station | Griffith | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff