Discussion
griffdude said:
I paid £6 from B&Q for 4 splitters (ok, it was 1 length of guttering).
Methinks the easiest. With no more than a 16mm (1 inch) deflection it should clear the standard council 10cm speed bumps. Will think about the Japanese hinge idea, how to do. Any feed back on how folks?Without sounding negative EGB, and I am honestly trying to help, I can see 2 problems with the hinge idea. The size of the opening at the front being too small for the plate to hinge into, and where you attach the hinge(s) to.
I think ideally it would need to be hinged to push air into the radiator which rules out hanging from under the top edge.
So you are looking at either the centre or bottom strut.
As an experiment I wouldn't want to attach something to either of them because they are visible if you decide to ditch the idea and I think the size of the plate needs to be considered if its being hinged from the top or bottom edges of the plate.
If its that much of a concern, rather than go to all this trouble why not just pull it off and shove it down the side of the battery box. If you're pulled put it on the passenger seat and say it was on the floor when you came to the car and you're going to reattach it when you get home.
I work with guys who have Ferraris and a Lambo Aventador. None of which have a front plate and neither of the guys have been pulled.
It might be different with our old crates though
I think ideally it would need to be hinged to push air into the radiator which rules out hanging from under the top edge.
So you are looking at either the centre or bottom strut.
As an experiment I wouldn't want to attach something to either of them because they are visible if you decide to ditch the idea and I think the size of the plate needs to be considered if its being hinged from the top or bottom edges of the plate.
If its that much of a concern, rather than go to all this trouble why not just pull it off and shove it down the side of the battery box. If you're pulled put it on the passenger seat and say it was on the floor when you came to the car and you're going to reattach it when you get home.
I work with guys who have Ferraris and a Lambo Aventador. None of which have a front plate and neither of the guys have been pulled.
It might be different with our old crates though
My Griff has the original splitter fitted, and in addition to this I have fitted a 3/4 size front plate. The reduced size plate made a significant difference to the cooling as it alows more air through the front of the car.
I have an over-ride switch fitted under the steering column ( the dash lights button) and this allows me to put the fans on whenever I want to : for instance, in slow moving traffic if I know the temps are going to rise. Thus preventing any risk of overheating.
Front splitter has a couple of scrapes on it, but generally not a problem at speed humps (provided I slow down to 60mph to get over them
)
I have an over-ride switch fitted under the steering column ( the dash lights button) and this allows me to put the fans on whenever I want to : for instance, in slow moving traffic if I know the temps are going to rise. Thus preventing any risk of overheating.
Front splitter has a couple of scrapes on it, but generally not a problem at speed humps (provided I slow down to 60mph to get over them
)Edited by bomb on Monday 16th June 17:16
Yes Ian I get your points. Just thinking (having a brain storm!), a 3/4 or even the full plate to be hinged on the centre strut using the existing plate screwfix holes. There is room to lift and hinge fix the plate vertical by as much as 1/2 inch before fouling the top of the rad entry.
When the Griff moves forward, the wind force on the extra area of the plate above the central strut will cause it to flip horizontaly backwards. Hence more air to the rad. It flips back down when slowing down to stop.
Needs to find the best hinge ballance point on the plate for this. Perhaps with the fans on it may also hopefully flip horizontal in stop go heavy hot traffic.
Need to give some thought to the design of the two hinges on either side of the plate and how to fix them to the plate. If it can be made to work, I can not see any legislation yet whch would deem it not legal. The coppers would still be in puzzled, frowning, blinking mode...... Like me!
Like to know from bomb and TJS10 where they mounted their splitters for cooling. Under rad lip or further back? Thanks every body.
When the Griff moves forward, the wind force on the extra area of the plate above the central strut will cause it to flip horizontaly backwards. Hence more air to the rad. It flips back down when slowing down to stop.
Needs to find the best hinge ballance point on the plate for this. Perhaps with the fans on it may also hopefully flip horizontal in stop go heavy hot traffic.
Need to give some thought to the design of the two hinges on either side of the plate and how to fix them to the plate. If it can be made to work, I can not see any legislation yet whch would deem it not legal. The coppers would still be in puzzled, frowning, blinking mode...... Like me!
Like to know from bomb and TJS10 where they mounted their splitters for cooling. Under rad lip or further back? Thanks every body.
I know each Griff is slightly different and I realise the pre-cats don't have the front air intake cut out, however isn't this missing the point a bit because I am far more concerned that the car will overheat when I am sitting in traffic then I am when it is moving forward at speed. If the car is overheating when driving at speed then perhaps you should be overhauling your cooling system (the usual; properly bled system, radiator, fans, thermostat, pipework, pressure cap etc.).
For the same reason I don't wrap the air intake duct(subject of a previous article) because when you need cooler intake air is when you are moving forward at speed and you have a flow of air over the intake duct to cool it.
Of course I have nothing to substantiate this apart from my personal experience, which is why a faintly scientifice before and after test would be useful for all. Pete
For the same reason I don't wrap the air intake duct(subject of a previous article) because when you need cooler intake air is when you are moving forward at speed and you have a flow of air over the intake duct to cool it.
Of course I have nothing to substantiate this apart from my personal experience, which is why a faintly scientifice before and after test would be useful for all. Pete
Pete Mac said:
I kn
Of course I have nothing to substantiate this apart from my personal experience, which is why a faintly scientifice before and after test would be useful for all. Pete
Yes Pete. No need to work out the sig diff CV and SE as to whether any modification works. Radiator is certainly significantly cooler on the gauge with the number plate off and no worries for me, old school. It shows no higher than 90C and the fans take over. I have an over ride switch and a LED on off indicator for heavy traffic. With 50/50 glycol it will only boil and start loosing water and steam at about 110C. Hopefully no worries till then? You probably use antifreeze where you are in hot hot north gulf somewhere. Cheers Eddie.Of course I have nothing to substantiate this apart from my personal experience, which is why a faintly scientifice before and after test would be useful for all. Pete
I would have thought the precat front wouldn't have a negative effect on cooling when sitting in traffic. There is the same hole in the floor in front of the rad isn't there - so the fans should have enough fresh air to pull through the rad and if your cooling system is in good nick it is more than capable of cooling the engine.
It disturbs the airflow under the car (which is why it faces forwards, not backwards), which creates a slight drop in air pressure below the engine bay, which then sucks more air through from above, ie through the engine bay. Only two ways it can get there - through the bonnet vents or through the radiator. Hence the cooling effect.
It also has a slight effect of sucking the bonnet down (very useful in a Chimaera, which has a rather flappy bonnet held down by one off-centre catch), and the car down onto the road. Not true ground effects, but along those lines.
It also has a slight effect of sucking the bonnet down (very useful in a Chimaera, which has a rather flappy bonnet held down by one off-centre catch), and the car down onto the road. Not true ground effects, but along those lines.
I was talking to Heath (X Works) re this the other day and he said that it helps to suck the hot air down from the engine compartment. My Griff had a splitter on when I got it but I noticed the other week when at X Works and car on the ramp that it wasn't there now and mentioned this to Heath - hence discussion but that explains why it has been running a few degrees hotter the last year or so so one is being put on (hope it lasts ....). As someone else said the panel light switch at left knee is now the fan override.
Jim
Later - but worth mentioning - don't fit spoiler with bolts - X Works advised not to as they have seen a few where people have done this and then knocked it off together with half the fibreglass it was fixed to (leaving a real mess) so better to use some shortish screw threaded bolts for this instead as they will pull out without too much damage.
Jim
Later - but worth mentioning - don't fit spoiler with bolts - X Works advised not to as they have seen a few where people have done this and then knocked it off together with half the fibreglass it was fixed to (leaving a real mess) so better to use some shortish screw threaded bolts for this instead as they will pull out without too much damage.
Edited by jimed on Wednesday 18th June 15:54
The basic idea behind most front chin spoilers is to stop air passing underneath the car where it can cause swirl due to the many gaps on a cars underside. Many cars have plastic type under trays to smooth the passage of air as it goes underneath.
The only sure way to prove how the spoiler works would be in a wind tunnel ??
On the Griff I imagine that the front spoiler should push the rush of air slightly back forward and up into the radiator ? and also direct some of it over the car. ?
The front nose of a Griff is similar to a Series 1 E Type, which at speed can get very light on the front end due to lift. My Griff get a bit front end light at very high 140 plus speeds. I intend to try a spoiler as soon as I can can locate one.
I'm sure fitting back on the spoiler will help with cooling @ any speed above 40 mph. At the moment @ a steady high speed without the front number plate she sits @ 90 ish on the gauge. ( Which incidentally is stupidly placed in the near hidden right corner of the dash. ) it's one job that I just havnt got round to doing, swapping it for the clock or fuel gauge.
The only sure way to prove how the spoiler works would be in a wind tunnel ??
On the Griff I imagine that the front spoiler should push the rush of air slightly back forward and up into the radiator ? and also direct some of it over the car. ?
The front nose of a Griff is similar to a Series 1 E Type, which at speed can get very light on the front end due to lift. My Griff get a bit front end light at very high 140 plus speeds. I intend to try a spoiler as soon as I can can locate one.
I'm sure fitting back on the spoiler will help with cooling @ any speed above 40 mph. At the moment @ a steady high speed without the front number plate she sits @ 90 ish on the gauge. ( Which incidentally is stupidly placed in the near hidden right corner of the dash. ) it's one job that I just havnt got round to doing, swapping it for the clock or fuel gauge.
neutral 3 said:
The basic idea behind most front chin spoilers is to stop air passing underneath the car where it can cause swirl due to the many gaps on a cars underside. Many cars have plastic type under trays to smooth the passage of air as it goes underneath.
The only sure way to prove how the spoiler works would be in a wind tunnel ??
On the Griff I imagine that the front spoiler should push the rush of air slightly back forward and up into the radiator ? and also direct some of it over the car. ?
The front nose of a Griff is similar to a Series 1 E Type, which at speed can get very light on the front end due to lift. My Griff get a bit front end light at very high 140 plus speeds. I intend to try a spoiler as soon as I can can locate one.
I'm sure fitting back on the spoiler will help with cooling @ any speed above 40 mph. At the moment @ a steady high speed without the front number plate she sits @ 90 ish on the gauge. ( Which incidentally is stupidly placed in the near hidden right corner of the dash. ) it's one job that I just havnt got round to doing, swapping it for the clock or fuel gauge.
Not arguing with you.The only sure way to prove how the spoiler works would be in a wind tunnel ??
On the Griff I imagine that the front spoiler should push the rush of air slightly back forward and up into the radiator ? and also direct some of it over the car. ?
The front nose of a Griff is similar to a Series 1 E Type, which at speed can get very light on the front end due to lift. My Griff get a bit front end light at very high 140 plus speeds. I intend to try a spoiler as soon as I can can locate one.
I'm sure fitting back on the spoiler will help with cooling @ any speed above 40 mph. At the moment @ a steady high speed without the front number plate she sits @ 90 ish on the gauge. ( Which incidentally is stupidly placed in the near hidden right corner of the dash. ) it's one job that I just havnt got round to doing, swapping it for the clock or fuel gauge.
But there are chin spoilers and chin spoilers.
I have seen a Griff with a big black full width chin spoiler a la touring car, jutting out from under the front of the car
That would definitely restrict the air from going under the car and help with grip.
The standard Chim/Grief front spoiler is about a foot back from the front of the car, only 900 mm wide (the car is 1600 mm wide) and about 40 mm deep, and is just there to disrupt the smooth arflow that is passing under the car.
Pete Mac said:
EGB said:
You probably use antifreeze where you are in hot hot north gulf somewhere.
Eddie, Pangbourne, West of Reading is hardly north gulf. I'm just here to earn the money to pay for the TVRs. PeteEGB said:
Oooops Pete, mixed you up with somebody else. It does happen to us TIVS sometime. However, just making a hot point. Sorry.
Eddie, not a problem at all. I work in Kazakhstan on a 4 on, 4 off rotation. It's really hot out here right now but I couldn't bring the Griff here and if I could it wouldn't last 2 minutes on the roads here.I am interested in this thread because I also always drive with one eye on the temperature gauge, although now I have spent time ovehauling the system, it is currently giving me no problems.
Mine is a 95, serpentine 500. I have a full number plate and I also have a fan override switch, although I don't use it much.
Normal driving my temperature gauge is on about 89C. In cooler weather, in traffic it stays about there and in hot weather it goes up to perhaps 91C or so in traffic but in normal driving it still sits about 89C, whatever the ambient temperature.
The temperature of the water is, presumably, a function of the thermostat opening and closing, normal air flow and the fans cutting in and out, so at the moment everything seems to be working OK so given the differences between temperature gauges, thermostats, radiators etc, any other 500 should be doing approximately the same.
For the engine to work efficiently, I want the temperature to stay about the 89C or so, much lower and my engine is not working efficiently. So if I had better airflow over the radiator, I would expect the thermostat not to open so much and keep the cooling water at about the same temperature.
The real benefit of better airflow through the engine compartment is to cool all the ancillaries including the inlet air mainfold as well as the exhaust manifolds as this should give me more efficient combustion.
So my tiny mind tells me that better air flow is good because it cools the engine compartment generally and makes for more efficient running, however providing your cooling system is working correctly (this is a big provision....!) you shouldn't need to bring the temperature of your cooling water down because that may lead to inefficient running.
There is the added potential bonus of the downforce on the front end.
Sorry if this a bit long winded - Pete
Pete Mac said:
Normal driving my temperature gauge is on about 89C. In cooler weather, in traffic it stays about there and in hot weather it goes up to perhaps 91C or so in traffic but in normal driving it still sits about 89C, whatever the ambient temperature.
Thanks Pete. My Griff duplicates these temps almost exactly. So no worries for us . But don't drive with number plate off and the bonnet unclipped. I did once, and all that extra air blowing through the engine nearly lifted my bonnet off on the M11.
North of the Gulf was easier to spell than Kazakhastan!! Salam. I spent some time in N Iran, Sabalan mountain.
Normal driving my temperature gauge is on about 89C. In cooler weather, in traffic it stays about there and in hot weather it goes up to perhaps 91C or so in traffic but in normal driving it still sits about 89C, whatever the ambient temperature.
Thanks Pete. My Griff duplicates these temps almost exactly. So no worries for us . But don't drive with number plate off and the bonnet unclipped. I did once, and all that extra air blowing through the engine nearly lifted my bonnet off on the M11.
North of the Gulf was easier to spell than Kazakhastan!! Salam. I spent some time in N Iran, Sabalan mountain.Edited by EGB on Wednesday 18th June 09:51
EGB said:
...Normal driving my temperature gauge is on about 89C. In cooler weather, in traffic it stays about there and in hot weather it goes up to perhaps 91C or so in traffic...
Bloody accurate these 5.0ltr V8 TVR heating units and associated temperature gauges! My home central heating is only accurate to within 2 or 3 degrees. 
Gassing Station | Griffith | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff