£32000(thirty two frickin thousand for a Griff!!!!!!!!!! )
Discussion
Clearly I'm in a minority. I have no problem with dealer mark up in general and am happy for them to make a good profit. On this occasion, however, they've bought probably a perfect car, fitted cheaper wheels and shoved it on the forecourt for 30% more than they paid for it. I'm normally the first one to defend dealers because they aren't a charity, but, for me, this car confirms what other threads have suggested and that is that Fernies' cars are overpriced. Yes, people will pay those prices because there aren't many (if any) alternatives and they are based in an area with a lot of well off people. But just think about this: how many times do people start a thread asking for dealer recommendations and how often are Fernies people's N.o.1 choice? I can't remember a single time and if Fernies get a reputation for being overpriced as well I think they could be in trouble. That would be a real shame because I love stopping at their site and having a nose around.
Edited by SonicHedgeHog on Friday 2nd April 12:34
crackedfinger said:
I don't see anything dodgy here? Dealer buys car for lower price and sells for higher, it's up to people to choose to buy from dealers. It's all very open as a buyer can compare prices easily.
Compared to other practices in the motor trade to be wary of, this to me is really isn't an issue.
Every one who see the original add also had the chance to buy the car & resell for a profit,, why dog of fernhurstCompared to other practices in the motor trade to be wary of, this to me is really isn't an issue.
By the time SE's command 'real' money, mine will have 100k+ miles on it, only another 23k to go 
Split rims weren't orginal equipment, it was an option on the last 100 cars. . . you probably could have got them on any of the later produced cars if you'd asked.
£6k premium buys you non original wheels to that specific car and a 12mth warranty.
Fair play to Fernies, they are a business trying to make a profit. It's not blatant profiteering it's business. If I offered anyone on here the chance to buy a pristine example car for less than the market price, with the full knowledge that they could sell it on for what they could get for it, who wouldn't do it ?
I've never had anything to do with Fernies and generally have very little to do with any of the TVR dealers, but they're trading in a finite resource, that is marked clearly as a future classic, why wouldn't they sell 'em for what they can get?
I was discussing this with my Dad the other day (Chimaera 4.5
) and it makes me consider a few things ..
1 - I am the custodian of a future classic car which should be preserved for future generations to appreciate what motoring was really about, before we're all in hydrogen powdered monoboxes made from recycled coconut husks
2 - Having an SE add's to that thinking as of the numbered cars there's only 99 left to our knowledge
3 - It doesn't mean I will stop using it, park it up, restore it, polish it and leave it for its value purposes, it means I'll make sure i do use it!
4 - I'll be very sad to see more Griffiths become garage queens like so many E types have become because it's an investment etc etc
5 - The value of my car would have to be far beyond what they're selling for now to ever recoup anywhere near the money and time i have invested in it, so on the basis it'll never pay me back financially it'll have to pay me back in mileage and memories
The value is what someone is prepared to pay. It's marked up £4k more than I paid for mine 8yrs ago, which at the time was 2yrs old and 13k miles on it. Mine wouldn't sell for £32k and I couldn't give a crap either way as mines for driving now and for many years to come . .
Look after them folks, they're making no more and with more people wanting them than ever . . . . It's a good thing as life changes and one day you or I may be in a position where we are forced to sell, better that it's for a higher price than it would have been.
PS - I'd have sold the house, the cats, the missus, the watches, the televisions, the everything else I owned including organs before I'd part with her though . . .
Split rims weren't orginal equipment, it was an option on the last 100 cars. . . you probably could have got them on any of the later produced cars if you'd asked.
£6k premium buys you non original wheels to that specific car and a 12mth warranty.
Fair play to Fernies, they are a business trying to make a profit. It's not blatant profiteering it's business. If I offered anyone on here the chance to buy a pristine example car for less than the market price, with the full knowledge that they could sell it on for what they could get for it, who wouldn't do it ?
I've never had anything to do with Fernies and generally have very little to do with any of the TVR dealers, but they're trading in a finite resource, that is marked clearly as a future classic, why wouldn't they sell 'em for what they can get?
I was discussing this with my Dad the other day (Chimaera 4.5
) and it makes me consider a few things .. 1 - I am the custodian of a future classic car which should be preserved for future generations to appreciate what motoring was really about, before we're all in hydrogen powdered monoboxes made from recycled coconut husks
2 - Having an SE add's to that thinking as of the numbered cars there's only 99 left to our knowledge
3 - It doesn't mean I will stop using it, park it up, restore it, polish it and leave it for its value purposes, it means I'll make sure i do use it!
4 - I'll be very sad to see more Griffiths become garage queens like so many E types have become because it's an investment etc etc
5 - The value of my car would have to be far beyond what they're selling for now to ever recoup anywhere near the money and time i have invested in it, so on the basis it'll never pay me back financially it'll have to pay me back in mileage and memories
The value is what someone is prepared to pay. It's marked up £4k more than I paid for mine 8yrs ago, which at the time was 2yrs old and 13k miles on it. Mine wouldn't sell for £32k and I couldn't give a crap either way as mines for driving now and for many years to come . .
Look after them folks, they're making no more and with more people wanting them than ever . . . . It's a good thing as life changes and one day you or I may be in a position where we are forced to sell, better that it's for a higher price than it would have been.
PS - I'd have sold the house, the cats, the missus, the watches, the televisions, the everything else I owned including organs before I'd part with her though . . .
yellowgriff said:
crackedfinger said:
I don't see anything dodgy here? Dealer buys car for lower price and sells for higher, it's up to people to choose to buy from dealers. It's all very open as a buyer can compare prices easily.
Compared to other practices in the motor trade to be wary of, this to me is really isn't an issue.
Every one who see the original add also had the chance to buy the car & resell for a profit,, why dog of fernhurstCompared to other practices in the motor trade to be wary of, this to me is really isn't an issue.
1. They did it and chose to make the changes to price and spec.
2. All their cars to top dollar. No doubt they are fully checked etc, etc, but when you take this car in the context of all their other very high prices it does, in my mind at least, make you wonder how much mark up they're making in general.
I could be getting all worked up about nothing and doing Fernies a real disservice. It is possible there was a lot wrong with the car and the new price reflects that. Similarly, it could be that all their cars are fairly priced and I'm way out of touch with Griff values.
The more I think about this the more I think it is the wheels that are really bothering me. If the advert said you can have OZ wheels at no extra cost then I wouldn't have such a big bee in my bonnet. But because they have been removed it shouts 'profiteering' at me. TVR owners are part of a very small, close community. I just can't see how this car and that community sit well together.
I'm going to shut up now as if I have this all wrong I am doing Fernies no favours at all.
Johno said:
£6k premium buys you non original wheels to that specific car and a 12mth warranty.
Fair play to Fernies, they are a business trying to make a profit. It's not blatant profiteering it's business. If I offered anyone on here the chance to buy a pristine example car for less than the market price, with the full knowledge that they could sell it on for what they could get for it, who wouldn't do it ?
Alright, THIS is my last post. That is a fair point. It's just that one day it is up for sale for X and the next day it is up for sale for X plus a lot minus good wheels. It just so blatent and so visible I find it unpleasant. Business is not usually so obvious. Clearly I would have been better off not knowing.Fair play to Fernies, they are a business trying to make a profit. It's not blatant profiteering it's business. If I offered anyone on here the chance to buy a pristine example car for less than the market price, with the full knowledge that they could sell it on for what they could get for it, who wouldn't do it ?
Fernies are a business. The point of a business is to make profit for the owners/shareholders/investors. That's what they are doing - and, if they sell this (no 87) for 32k, or the Purple Illusion (no 20, which was also on PH classifieds a week ago with Agger, for 21.5k), then they are doing it well.
It only bothers us because we now know what a recent previous owner and another dealer thought they were worth.
Unfortunately I like to use my car (which I bought from Fernies) and that is depreciating the value of it. I can't afford another 'nest egg' to sit on. But if I could it seems a low milage SE would be a worthwhile investment - if you bought it from elsewhere other than Fernies!!
It only bothers us because we now know what a recent previous owner and another dealer thought they were worth.
Unfortunately I like to use my car (which I bought from Fernies) and that is depreciating the value of it. I can't afford another 'nest egg' to sit on. But if I could it seems a low milage SE would be a worthwhile investment - if you bought it from elsewhere other than Fernies!!
SonicHedgeHog said:
1. They did it and chose to make the changes to price and spec.
That's their right as it's their car now . . . Like you can make changes to yorus and sell it, they just happen to be a dealer.SonicHedgeHog said:
2. All their cars to top dollar. No doubt they are fully checked etc, etc, but when you take this car in the context of all their other very high prices it does, in my mind at least, make you wonder how much mark up they're making in general.
Why are you shocked that dealers are making significant mark ups? It's what their job is . . . SonicHedgeHog said:
I could be getting all worked up about nothing and doing Fernies a real disservice. It is possible there was a lot wrong with the car and the new price reflects that. Similarly, it could be that all their cars are fairly priced and I'm way out of touch with Griff values.
I doubt there was loads wrong with it as they bought it in the first place and I doubt very much they would spend a bunch of money of somethign they then had to put a large mark up on to recoup it . . . that's not what a good dealer would do.SonicHedgeHog said:
The more I think about this the more I think it is the wheels that are really bothering me. If the advert said you can have OZ wheels at no extra cost then I wouldn't have such a big bee in my bonnet. But because they have been removed it shouts 'profiteering' at me.
I doubt Fernies have changed the wheels for profit, I imagine they believe that more people want the 7 spokes than the split rims.SonicHedgeHog said:
TVR owners are part of a very small, close community. I just can't see how this car and that community sit well together.
2 things here . . . Close community ? Really ? We share a passion for a particular brand of cars. I don't see a close community at all . . Londer Thunder only got 400 odd cars and the TVR Car Club didn't even spport it to start with. There's plenty of clique's, but I don't see a close community. A small elite may be a better expression Secondly I would draw a distinction between this car and that community. The car is an inanimate object firstly, it's the actions of the dealer that have you worked up. What are you going to say the guy who buys this car when they possibly appear on PH with the thread "Finally bought my dream Griffith" . . .. Is your post going to condemn them for buying it over priced, wrong specced and they're helping to propogate some form of heinous crime against a so called close community that doesn't really exist !
SonicHedgeHog said:
I'm going to shut up now as if I have this all wrong I am doing Fernies no favours at all.
I'm not saying you're right or wrong, disagreement and debate is fertiliser for forums, so keep going 
Johno said:
SonicHedgeHog said:
1. They did it and chose to make the changes to price and spec.
That's their right as it's their car now . . . Like you can make changes to yorus and sell it, they just happen to be a dealer.SonicHedgeHog said:
2. All their cars to top dollar. No doubt they are fully checked etc, etc, but when you take this car in the context of all their other very high prices it does, in my mind at least, make you wonder how much mark up they're making in general.
Why are you shocked that dealers are making significant mark ups? It's what their job is . . . SonicHedgeHog said:
I could be getting all worked up about nothing and doing Fernies a real disservice. It is possible there was a lot wrong with the car and the new price reflects that. Similarly, it could be that all their cars are fairly priced and I'm way out of touch with Griff values.
I doubt there was loads wrong with it as they bought it in the first place and I doubt very much they would spend a bunch of money of somethign they then had to put a large mark up on to recoup it . . . that's not what a good dealer would do.SonicHedgeHog said:
The more I think about this the more I think it is the wheels that are really bothering me. If the advert said you can have OZ wheels at no extra cost then I wouldn't have such a big bee in my bonnet. But because they have been removed it shouts 'profiteering' at me.
I doubt Fernies have changed the wheels for profit, I imagine they believe that more people want the 7 spokes than the split rims.SonicHedgeHog said:
TVR owners are part of a very small, close community. I just can't see how this car and that community sit well together.
2 things here . . . Close community ? Really ? We share a passion for a particular brand of cars. I don't see a close community at all . . Londer Thunder only got 400 odd cars and the TVR Car Club didn't even spport it to start with. There's plenty of clique's, but I don't see a close community. A small elite may be a better expression Secondly I would draw a distinction between this car and that community. The car is an inanimate object firstly, it's the actions of the dealer that have you worked up. What are you going to say the guy who buys this car when they possibly appear on PH with the thread "Finally bought my dream Griffith" . . .. Is your post going to condemn them for buying it over priced, wrong specced and they're helping to propogate some form of heinous crime against a so called close community that doesn't really exist !
SonicHedgeHog said:
I'm going to shut up now as if I have this all wrong I am doing Fernies no favours at all.
I'm not saying you're right or wrong, disagreement and debate is fertiliser for forums, so keep going Just a few points.
1. I think Fernies changed the wheels 100% because of the effect on profit. I am sure they know they can sell those for over a grand having bought refurbed 500s for about £500. They know most owners won't be bothered, certainly at that price.
2. I would say it is a close community. 400 cars turning up for an event is a good turnout given the small number that were actually made. Also, I bet all the dealers are on first name terms with each other. How many other brands can say that?
3. I agree that this car is different, as are the other SEs. These more than any other model are investment material and it would seem Fernies are aware of this. They know someone will pay that price. I don't actually have a problem with the price it's just that I kept the pictures of that car because it had the OZs on it and I am thinking about buying some for my car. To see them removed and the price, which I thought was top dollar anyway, ramped up by so much has really plugged me in.
I wonder what the other dealers think of Fernies' pricing policy? Are they envious or is there a lot of head shaking? Bit of both perhaps?
Ive been in the car trade all my life & any car dealer in todays market pays out 25k on a car will be looking at 5K profit.. Ive a friend at the moment selling one of my cars on SOR hes got it marked up 5K more than hes returning me,, Am i bother not in the slightest..Rent, Rate ,Staff wages,Warrenty, That all has to be found & payed for. No one making anyone buy or sell this Griff, drive your griff & enjoy or put it in the garage & let it go up in value,
£6k gross margin on something selling for £32k, with them having to prepare, sell with all the various test drives they provide and then guarantee for 12 months doesnt seem that much to me. They are specialists in the make and are the sort of business that helps protects the value of cars.
You pays your money and makes your choice. Good luck to them.
You pays your money and makes your choice. Good luck to them.
yellowgriff said:
Ive been in the car trade all my life & any car dealer in todays market pays out 25k on a car will be looking at 5K profit.. Ive a friend at the moment selling one of my cars on SOR hes got it marked up 5K more than hes returning me,, Am i bother not in the slightest..Rent, Rate ,Staff wages,Warrenty, That all has to be found & payed for. No one making anyone buy or sell this Griff, drive your griff & enjoy or put it in the garage & let it go up in value,
+1 
TV8 said:
£6k gross margin on something selling for £32k, with them having to prepare, sell with all the various test drives they provide and then guarantee for 12 months doesnt seem that much to me. They are specialists in the make and are the sort of business that helps protects the value of cars.
You pays your money and makes your choice. Good luck to them.
Is that a Stag on your profile?You pays your money and makes your choice. Good luck to them.
neutral 3 said:
Re Dealer piss take , a nice e-type Roadster ( Lovely Colour ) was sold on here recently for only 12k , 2.5 k below asking price. The buyers (a Dealer), put it up for 22,995 , it sold WITHIN days . THATS WHAT I CALL TAKEING THE P . The previous owner much be absolutely sick.
Can't see what the problem is....It's called business..Nobody forced them to buy or sell...
23K is not unreasonable for a decent "E" roadster, unless it was a dog...............
It will probably be sold next week and leave us all eating humble pie.
But I do think some dealers are taking a few liberties with their pricing policies. People don't mind paying an extra £1-2k on the asking price if the warranty is potentially covering a new engine for example. But when they are adding such large mark-ups to the price you could buy private and buy a brand new engine!
Still I bet the other 98 Griff 500LE owners are rubbing their hands together (minus the one that has gone to griff heaven)
But I do think some dealers are taking a few liberties with their pricing policies. People don't mind paying an extra £1-2k on the asking price if the warranty is potentially covering a new engine for example. But when they are adding such large mark-ups to the price you could buy private and buy a brand new engine!
Still I bet the other 98 Griff 500LE owners are rubbing their hands together (minus the one that has gone to griff heaven)
I'm still not convinced the last 100 run-out cars will fetch a premium over other well looked after Griffs. The rear pepper-pot lights are a matter of taste but the dash may be considered an improvement. Usually people say the genuine BV cars are well sought after and the pre-cats but let's be honest in 10-25 year's time these cars are going to be pretty rare so I think the prices will even out and it will all be down to condition. Meanwhile let's hope it sells for a good price
I like the lights,better than a remnant off a Vauxhall. The dash is nice, but is it worth a large premium. Now if it was like a DB7 GT (last 100 DB7s) with extra bhp, handling mods and cosmetics then maybe. The Aston only commands a 15% premium on its siblings.
Watch out, I believe Fernies have No 100 SE- what price will this fetch??????
Watch out, I believe Fernies have No 100 SE- what price will this fetch??????
There you are you see, you like the 'piss-holes in the snow' effect and I prefer the originals, to my eyes the slight rebate of the lens set into the rear wing both alleviates the bluntness of the rump and at the same time works as a foil to the stylised leading edge of the doors. I like to think there was a design intention to the rear lights which was lost in trying to copy the Tuscan but each to their own. Watching P'Heads over the last 7 or 8 years I'd say the jury's out 50/50 
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