Which 7 seater?

[Murph7355]

Am about to start the hunt for the replacement for our 2010 D5 XC90 and am wondering which Land Rover product best fits the bill.

Must have 7 seats ability and have plenty of room. Must also be able to cope with young kids! Off road/all weather ability important. Outside of that anything goes.

I was thinking Discovery. But do the RRS or even Discovery Sport work?

Others being looked at are

- new XC90
- Audi Q7
- Merc GLS
- BMW X5

Also, which flavour engine is the best to go for - diesel or petrol? Or even hybrid??

[Murph7355]

Thanks guys.

Further research has consigned the Disco Sport to an also ran (which I knew was likely).

I suspect the RRS will go that way too.

Disco 4 is likely to be the pick from the Land Rover stable but think it's getting quite long in the tooth? And I suspect the 5 will be to new to be cost effective.

Have had a brief run out in the latest XC90 and it's very good. Q7 looks to be the nearest competitor in terms of interior space.

[Murph7355]

chappj said:

We are test driving the DS tomorrow. If that goes well we'll be placing an order.

Let me know how it goes.

I'll have a mooch around one as and when I can sort out a test drive in a Disco4.

[Murph7355]

chappj said:

murph7355, how is the search going? I'm intrigued to see what car you ended up choosing.

Slowly. Anyone would think people don't want to sell cars.

I expected some of this though.

Local dealers don't have Discovery 4's for extended test drives. I'm off down to the show room on Saturday to have a look. I may kidnap a sales rep to get the car up on my usual roads and see how much of our usual crap I can fill it with

MrsM really likes the look of the Disco Sport, but we're both convinced it'll be a bit too small inside. It may well be OK as the next car after this one we get as we won't be quite so encumbered with push chairs and small kid paraphernalia...

Mercedes couldn't be less interested if they tried. There are two reasonably nearby but no real interest in showing them to me. I'm all but ruling these out at present - a lot more expensive, bigger etc. MrsM not keen.

Audi are just checking when they can get me a Q7 to try. They have an SQ7 to test, but I have zero interest in a 90k Q7 (much as I adore my RS4..."sports SUVs? Nah).

Volvo is still where MrsM's heart is. But even they appear to be being less than helpful on testing. I'm due a call back from them too. Prices seem to be softening as expected. These are on par with the Discovery 4s, and a bit cheaper than Q7s.

I'll post back at the weekend on my initial Land Rover thoughts. I want to really like the Disco4. I like the way it looks. I'm concerned it'll feel more cramped than it should and may feel dated. We'll see.

[Murph7355]

Thanks Paul.

I'm confident boot wise it'll be fine. I'm more interested in the rear two rows of seats.

I'm 6'4" and in the Q7 I mooch ed around a while ago seem to recall I could sit behind me driving and also in the third row without feeling too squashed. That may be my memory playing tricks so will be retesting. But it's that sort of thing I'm looking at.

Appreciate the offer of a look - I should be OK for these "tests" at the dealer. It's then just a case of getting them to let me hurl it around my local roads

[Murph7355]

Had a good look round the Disco4 and the DiscoSport today.

Disco4

Lovely car. I tested a Landmark - assuming pricing works OK I'll be going for this spec or the "Luxury" in all likelihood. Felt like a premium car. I'd say a little better than my current mkI XC90 (an RDesign so nicely appointed).

Gadget and gizmo count was decent. Touchscreen not as unresponsive as I've heard, but no iPad either. A lot better than my current car in this respect, but then so it should be really. No park assist and a few of the other very latest gadgets...unlikley to be an issue though.

Plenty of space in the front cabin. Felt a bit narrower than the mkI XC90, but I think that's an illusion due to the headroom....which is huge. The sunroofs help lift the interior.

Middle row of seats are spacious enough. Lack of ability to move them forward/back is a shame but there's loads of room (I'm 6'4" and with the seats comfy for me in the front I can sit in the middle row without touching the seatback (just). Pretty sure my knees just touch the seatbacks in the XC90.

Third row of seats are the best I've come across to date. Again plenty of headroom. Legroom is also fine. Getting in and out is way easier than in the mkI XC90 - square door openings and seats that flip out of the way more. Lifting the seats etc wasn't as tricky as I've heard people moan about. They're not heavy and easily done, albeit not one handed. I reckon I could do a long journey sat right at the back. Sunroof again helps here.

Plenty of storage space/trays all round the cabin too.

In 5 seat config the boot's big. I'd say about the same size as the mkI XC90 but perhaps a bit taller and more square. So no issues there.

In 7 seat config it's less good. My test here is to fit our Bugaboo Chameleon in sideways (folded). It could just be made to fit, but the rear wheels had to be taken off and the two sections of the pram stacked one on top of the other, and hence balanced/propped up while the boot was closed. Our XC90 swallows the pram without this hassle and will also take other bags, coats etc too. I'd say in 7 seat config the Disco4 has about 2/3s the usable boot space of the mkI XC90 (and I think the mkII might be bigger again).

Drive wise it was fine. Similar to our XC90 I think, though momre refined engine wise and a bit less general road/suspension noise (our XC90 does have 95k miles on it though!). Still wallowy, but then it's a car that weighs more than 2t. Perfectly OK and not as agricultural as I was expecting (at all). The air suspension can be dropped to ease access which makes a lot of difference (not for me - aged parents/kids etc!). The driving position's fantastic too - very commanding and all extremities very easy to see.

Outside the last of line models look great. It's a shape that will age really well I think.

Overall I enjoyed it. The lack of boot space in 7 seat mode is the only real black mark. It's countered by pretty good seats in the third row, but the lack of space in that mode might end up being an unnecessary compromise if my recollections of the new XC90 and even Q7 are correct.

DiscoSport

Also a nice car.

I didn't drive this one (at least not yet) but did try the size of it out and was very, very surprised.

From a usable seating perspective it's at least as good as the Disco4. In fact I'd say it's better. The sliding middle seats really help matters here. The third row aren't as good as the Disco4's - not as much room for feet or head and harder to access (though easier to put up/down). However they are perfectly usable, and anyone under 5'8"-9" would be perfectly comfy in there for longer trips I reckon.

It doesn't pass the Bugaboo test in 7 seat config, but would fit a smaller buggy and bags in there. In 5 seat mode it's probably 75% of the Disco4 (and readily swallows the pram - it'd take 2 or 3 of them at least).

Finally it felt like a league below the Disco4 in terms of quality. A lot of hard plastics, not great feel when sliding open hatches etc etc. For the price of them I think this is probably fine, but it's more Ford than Audi/Volvo.

It also feels much smaller inside - panoramic roof helps ease that, but doesn't completely overcome the feeling. And the driving position doesn't quite know what it wants to be - the bonnet's vast and you can't see the extremities very well, but you sit quite low.

Depending on how things go with the XC90/Q7 I may have another look at one. I'm not convinced it's the car we want just yet, but it has made me think twice, and when the kids are a bit older it might make a lot of sense. One thing that might swing it is the exterior size - my other half likes the look of them and would love something smaller than the XC90...we'll see.

I should be seeing the other contenders around 4th Feb so will finish off the comparison then

[Murph7355]

hilly10 said:

If you do decide to go for a new Landmark D4 Murph you had better get a move on as there are very few around, Stafford (Swansway) have one

Even stripping out the colours that I would want to avoid (black and white) there are over 60 advertised on Autotrader. Some will no doubt be the same car, but I'm not too worried at the moment.

And it doesn't have to be that spec particularly, but that would be the target (and would mean I'm closer to comparing apples with apples with the other cars still in the running).

I was surprised how busy the dealer was tbh. So much for the hardened times we find ourselves in...prices of used 4x4s certainly seem to be firmer than they once were, but I'm still confident there are deals to be done

[Murph7355]

chappj said:

murph7355, how is the search going? I'm intrigued to see what car you ended up choosing.

And the verdict...a little earlier than expected (more in a sec)...

In reverse order:

- BMW X5 : third row of seats are hopeless. Never really in the running.

- Merc GLS : biggest problem here was finding one. There were two more or less within a reasonable trip to see if we liked them, but one was older than we wanted and one too much money (and was white). So there were none we would really consider buying, and who knows when one might turn up. If used carsare anything to go by, they don't sell many of them. And looking at the price of them I'm not surprised - they are significantly more than the others.

The dealers were also the most disinterested in selling a car. All this combined ruled it out without me actually seeing one. If the dealers had been more flexible, that may have been different.

- Audi Q7 : best dealer in that they were keen to sell a car and prepared to push the boat out on a test drive. ie let me have one for half a day (hardly pushing the boat out - but the best on offer). I've sat in one before and they feel (and are) very spacious cars. And I like Audi interiors...they're designed very well generally, though their system does take some getting used to and as it develops it seems to be getting more complicated than it needs to.

Two things did for it...ignoring the Merc (which is daft money), it's the most expensive when you compare like for like specs, and the plus points about them for what we will use the car for are not sufficient. The second isn't Audi's fault - the winning brand were running a good deal for our circumstances...

- Discovery 4. 2nd best dealer. And there's something incredibly endearing about the Disco. Classic British design and product. Drove nicely, but less car like than the others. Commanding driving position. If the amount of space and ease of access to the third row of seats was the top priority, it would have won. If off roading capability had been the top priority it would have won. If engine smoothness had been a top priority it would have trumped the winner. But for us the down sides were too big for it to win...

Despite being a big car, space in the boot with the third row of seats up is not sufficient. When we use the car in that mode we're often off to the beach, or somewhere else that we need kid "stuff". And it wouldn't fit. If we could have moved the third row seats forward an inch or two it would have made the world of difference.

The car also felt "previous generation" (not really surprising). This shows up mostly in the tech on the car, which is OK but blitzed by the winner and for our use that ended up being telling. Land Rover have done a good job making it feel lovely to sit in (we were looking at higher end specs), but it did also have a bit too much of the "utility" feel about it.

I worry for the Disco 5 a little as from what the dealer said it does away with some of the Disco 4's strongest points without necessarily kicking the bad stuff into touch. Time will tell. I'm sure it will sell like hot cakes.

When our boys are a lot bigger maybe an old Disco 4 will work for us, but for now it was a no.

- And the winner is...the new XC90. The deck was probably stacked in its favour as we've loved our original car. Especially my OH. Volvo then went and opened a Selekt used car event offering 0% finance and a cheap service deal, combined with some extremely well specified cars (that I am pretty sure must be their demo fleet or possibly ex-rentals) and dealers who were up for negotiating. This meant real prices were sustantially less than the Audi (10%-20%) and even edging the Discovery. (The event runs until Monday should anyone be interested..but the top spec cars are nearly all gone - there may be one left).

The new car is a league above the old one in terms of the luxury feel. It feels like it's competing with a Range Rover IMO. Yes the engine's a bit gruff (the Range Rover should breath a sigh of relief), but we've just had 5.5 happy years in the old one and whilst that had a bit of character being 5cyls, it's hardly the epitome of engines. If only they'd put a 6cyl in it. There is also some road noise, but it's no worse than the Disco and again a huge improvement on the old car.

The boot is massive - as big as the Disco IMO in 5 seat mode, and in 7 seat mode a *lot* bigger. It's also bigger than the Audi using my pram test.

The tech is top end - short of a Tesla I can't think of any car that is likely to be better. And it all feels really, really useful and thought through.

And the safety cannot be beat - this is a family car so this is a really important facet. The car I'm buying has Intellisafe Pro which adds to this in spades.

There have been reports of some unreliability, but they seem mostly software oriented. The car I'm buying is only 6mths old so has plenty of warranty to lean on if needed, but if my old car was anything to go by it'll be fine.

These are really lovely cars. If anyone's in the market for a 7 seater it *has* to be on the list. Go and sit in one in a showroom for an hour and explore the space, practicality and spec in depth. You'll then forgive it the engine (more or less ). A T8 would probably cure that, but they're too much money IMO. My wife absolutely loves it, and I fell for it enough that I've even bought a black one after saying "never again" on black cars!! (This one's hers so she can clean it ).

So we're sticking with Volvo


An honourable mention must go to the Discovery Sport. For a much smaller car than the others the cabin space is pretty incredible. The middle row of seats are awesome and the third row usable. Even the boot's a great size, though with row 3 up is nigh on non-existent. If our kids were a couple of years older, it might have been a contender. It's probably also worth noting the quality feel of it wasn't as good as the Disco (or other cars). Yes, it's quite a bit cheaper than the others. And can be spec'd up (at a price). But if you want something that feels totally solid, it's probably not quite there. But I was very surprised and very nearly got my OH down to take a look.