Dragons Den type investor wanted with £6k - Manchester!
Discussion
Does your agreement allow you to sell other products? (can you get a license to eat in?)
A single product will never get the quantity of return sales that you'll need to sustain this business.
If you are happy to send me your business plan I'll have a look at it. if you have an nda please send that over if required.
the more i think about having "a little pie shop" the more i can see an idea forming.
My original concern though..what are you going to live off?
A single product will never get the quantity of return sales that you'll need to sustain this business.
If you are happy to send me your business plan I'll have a look at it. if you have an nda please send that over if required.
the more i think about having "a little pie shop" the more i can see an idea forming.
My original concern though..what are you going to live off?
Edited by Simond001 on Saturday 11th July 17:08
It always makes me laugh when people say the rent is only £250 pw, not a lot until you have to start finding it...(Probably three months in advance)...In addition allow probably £200 a week for rates, staffing costs, power, lighting, accountants.....You are probably looking at around £1000 pw, before you even think about taking a wage out for yourself...I reckon you would need to be turning over around £200/250k a year to make it a decent viable concern.
Don't forget I know Bury VERY well having owned a (highly profitable) business there since 1974, and I've seen hundreds of shops come and go in that time, as I said before not trying to put you off, just saying beware of the pitfalls and go into it with your eyes open.
Good luck.
Don't forget I know Bury VERY well having owned a (highly profitable) business there since 1974, and I've seen hundreds of shops come and go in that time, as I said before not trying to put you off, just saying beware of the pitfalls and go into it with your eyes open.
Good luck.
Cornish Delight said:
Thanks Stuart, very interesting!
Martial arts man:
Yes I realise people are not going to say "oh, I think it's a crap idea" but it did give me some indication as to how successful my business would go down in Bury.
I never realised I would get such a good response on here, I do regret now leaving my over sensitive rant because I'm not a rude person!
Kind regards: Michael
Martial arts man:
Yes I realise people are not going to say "oh, I think it's a crap idea" but it did give me some indication as to how successful my business would go down in Bury.
I never realised I would get such a good response on here, I do regret now leaving my over sensitive rant because I'm not a rude person!
Kind regards: Michael
No problem, I can see you are very passionate about your idea, but don't let that passion cloud your better judgement. Just think that if you decide not to do it, you may have saved yourself tens of thousands of pounds and potentially make even more money!Because, by not taking up this idea you may come up with another, better idea, having used the knowledge and experience from trying to set this one up. Cost lost opportunity and all that.
If you really think that it's a flyer then try to set it up with absolute least risk on your part. It can take 3-6 months to find a suitable investor, but if that investor gives you the right amount of money to make it work, it's the right decision.
With my limited knowledge, I would say you need anywhere between £50k-£80k to set this business up.
You need 1 years expenses in the bank, so you can survive without turning a profit for year 1. (so you can at least cover your legal commitments with the lease, etc, so they don't take you to the cleaners, thus ruining any chance you have to set up again for a long time).
Rent: £12k per year (250 per week).
Rates: £6k+ with expenses
Capital cost of equipment: £10k
Suppliers/stock: £2k+ set up
Marketing: £15k+ (leaflets, press, website, talking to people in the street, sign writing on the shop, sign boards!)
Minimum wages: £6k for first year (you WILL need money)
Emergency money: £5k
Helpers/part time workers: £8-10k
Equipment maintenance: £?
Accountancy + book keeping: £1.5k
POS Till system: £1-2k minimum
I make that £67.5k+ - £50k if you really scrape the barrels and £80k if you market it a lot and get help in, more equipment and ovens.
Not sure how you managed to make it £12k set up, when that is the cost of the equipment or lease on it's own.
Edited by stuart-b on Saturday 11th July 17:21
Cornish Delight said:
Stuart b:
Crickey £50k to £80k set up costs - dream on!
Have you ever been to Bury in Lancashire? It's not Mayfair!
Thanks for your costings some of which are spot on but most (thankfully) are well out.
Regards: Michael
But Michael, he's right!Crickey £50k to £80k set up costs - dream on!
Have you ever been to Bury in Lancashire? It's not Mayfair!
Thanks for your costings some of which are spot on but most (thankfully) are well out.
Regards: Michael
He even broke the costs down and gave you a wage of just over £100 a week - hardly Mayfair wages.
The fact that Bury is not Mayfair is the very reason I posted that this will be a novelty for a couple of months then settle back into regular customers, who will not be enough to sustain the business.
You seem to have overlooked the fact that you will not sell a lot of pasties in the first week/month because no one will know/care you are there and you will have significant wastage. I admire you hopes for your turnover, but that is just not going to happen from day one.
Cornish Delight said:
OK Tyre smoke: You know best!
No, I know nothing about retail. I just know that you are wrapped up in the romantic dream of selling pasties and clotted cream to the adoring masses of Bury.
If you are unable to see the difference between reasonable questions and the potential pitfalls being pointed out to you and personal attacks, you are not going to get on trying to please everyone all the time (which is impossible, but us in the service industry strive to achieve every waking hour!).
Good luck!
Mail me your projections if you like, I'll have an objective view of them.
I could have been interested but a little look at your numberplate selling website and I think I may have worked out why your numberplate business isn't working so well.........
Your plate F4 LEK £3000 and on the DVLA available now for...... £1275
Your plate V4 LON £5000 and on the DVLA available now for...... £490
Your plate F1 YOK £2200 and on the DVLA available now for.......£1275
et al
Your plate F4 LEK £3000 and on the DVLA available now for...... £1275
Your plate V4 LON £5000 and on the DVLA available now for...... £490
Your plate F1 YOK £2200 and on the DVLA available now for.......£1275
et al
V8mate said:
What about shop-fitting costs?
Env Health are very fussy about the quality of finish of food premises, on both sides of the counter.
Good point. Stainless commercial kitchen units are another bloody expensive start-up cost. Hadn't thought of that one myself.... even though I've spent a lot of time the past few weeks laying out a commercial deli setup.Env Health are very fussy about the quality of finish of food premises, on both sides of the counter.
Alfa_75_Steve said:
V8mate said:
What about shop-fitting costs?
Env Health are very fussy about the quality of finish of food premises, on both sides of the counter.
Good point. Stainless commercial kitchen units are another bloody expensive start-up cost. Hadn't thought of that one myself.... even though I've spent a lot of time the past few weeks laying out a commercial deli setup.Env Health are very fussy about the quality of finish of food premises, on both sides of the counter.
Then there's buying stock, having cashflow for wages etc. Many landlords, when dealing with new businesses, ask not only for three months rent in advance but also a rent deposit of 3-6 months.
Will there be advertising, or simply a reliance on passing trade.
The 'West Cornwall Pasty Company' closed their branch in my town a few months back. Personally, I think that the 'offer' is too narrow, i.e. if you're on your own and fancy a pasty it's fine, but more than one in a group and you're relying on everyone in the group liking pasties. At least in the likes of McDs you have a choice... burgers, chicken, salads etc. Pasties are null and void when it comes to anyone following the holy 'healthy lifestyle'.
The OP mentioned how well a pasty outlet does in Manchester Picadilly station. You can't compare railway stations with the high street. In stations, food if often sourced in a 'paniced' way. People want food quickly, in order to keep momentum in their journey, and they grab at whatever smell wafts their way.
I'll start off by admitting I know the square root of sod all about the catering business. However have you trawled all the local businesses to tender your prospective trade? Also as some have already mentioned I don't think getting tied down to a single product will do you any favors. Do not under estimate the selling potential of a bloody good bacon butty. Could you possibly add the general butty shop type business to supplement the pasty one? (I'm talking about the general breakfast between bread type not wholemeal and rabbit food type) I only ask as the last place I worked tended to stick to one butty shop for the ten o'clock brew break and lunch time food. The apprentices had the unenviable task of collecting the money and orders for at least 40 blokes who needed feeding, rang the orders through and picked up in time for brew and lunch.
Anyway good luck with the venture but don't get too sensitive about it as there is a wealth of experience on here and most of it is definitely worth listening to.
Anyway good luck with the venture but don't get too sensitive about it as there is a wealth of experience on here and most of it is definitely worth listening to.
Flooring: speak to your local EHO to find out what they'd be happy with.
This also applies to kitchen area wall tiling, and flooring. Also seek advice on the legalities of selling hot food, and their views on hygiene standards.
A visit from them just after opening could ruin your week, and on the figures you're posting, could even bankrupt the business.
This also applies to kitchen area wall tiling, and flooring. Also seek advice on the legalities of selling hot food, and their views on hygiene standards.
A visit from them just after opening could ruin your week, and on the figures you're posting, could even bankrupt the business.
to: Wolf 1
Yes you are right at 1st I was a bit over sensitive & am just starting to learn that even though 'some' people don't know anything about Cornish pasties or the town of Bury they are just offering their advice / opinions in order to help a stranger.
I don't want to start selling bacon buttys (good idea though) as I want to concentrate on providing everything CORNISH ie: Pasties, Clotted cream / Cornish jam scones, Cornish fudge, Clotted cream shortcake, jam, Fairings, cakes, brownies, I even have a contact in Cornwall that has just started making cornish pasty flavoured crisps.
Regards: Michael
Yes you are right at 1st I was a bit over sensitive & am just starting to learn that even though 'some' people don't know anything about Cornish pasties or the town of Bury they are just offering their advice / opinions in order to help a stranger.
I don't want to start selling bacon buttys (good idea though) as I want to concentrate on providing everything CORNISH ie: Pasties, Clotted cream / Cornish jam scones, Cornish fudge, Clotted cream shortcake, jam, Fairings, cakes, brownies, I even have a contact in Cornwall that has just started making cornish pasty flavoured crisps.
Regards: Michael
What makes you think the population of Bury will want a shop only selling Cornish things?
As has been posted, it may be a bit of a novelty for people at first - but your average Lancastrian is a simple animal (I should know, I'm one of them.....) who will be more than happy with chips and gravy for lunch. And a battered sausage as a Friday treat.
Cornish Delight said:
************ COMPETITION TIME **************
I live in Radcliffe, 4 miles from Bury in Lancashire.
How much does 8 cans of 500ml Fosters lager cost in my local off licence?
Winner gets a free Large Cornish pasty when / if my pasty shop opens!
Regards: Michael
WTF???I live in Radcliffe, 4 miles from Bury in Lancashire.
How much does 8 cans of 500ml Fosters lager cost in my local off licence?
Winner gets a free Large Cornish pasty when / if my pasty shop opens!
Regards: Michael
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