Gone very quiet

[TownIdiot]

skwdenyer said:

I do get that, and sympathise. My point was that if you were able to do that, commission would come down to 9%

It wouldn't as they don't know how we are paid.

In this sector margin has been eroded for years, with the entry point for specially negotiated deals with insurers getting higher and higher. Insurer service increasingly concentrated on a small number of very large national/international firms making it very difficult for new entrants to grow in a way that was possible not so long ago.

Probably off the topic of the thread so I apologise for that.

[Dave_V6]

TownIdiot said:

Are there any agencies that work on a results basis?
I.e. they get paid a share of sales rather than a monthly budget?

No. And there'll never be one as they are full of st!

You'd think it would be win win, but no, they are so good at their job they get paid even if you get fk all in return (normally blaming their lack of results on Google's latest BS update).

FACT, Google is pay to play now, ramped up in the last year or so. Look at their stock price & earnings, that isn't from serving up "free" organic listings.

[Tim Cognito]

I thought the fees for depositing cash were not far off the fees for taking card payments now? Not taking into account the hassle and time of doing the depositing.

Obviously ignoring the tax dodger element.

[Steve H]

clockworks said:

I don't take card payments, but I'm happy to take bank transfer, cheque, or cash.

I've looked into getting a card machine, but the costs don't make sense when I'm only taking 2 or 3 payments a week on average.

Having to pay to buy a card machine, then pay a percentage in commission puts me off.
I'd rather let the customer do the bank transfer when they get home after collecting their clock.

I am the same except that any retail sales pay by transfer before collecting, it doesn’t cause any issues.

Regular trade customers can do transfer afterwards or a few pay by cheque with is fine as you can pay them in on the bank app. Very few pay by cash nowadays.

[GardeningEcomm]

Surprise surprise the good weather has boosted our sales by +50%
Demand still well down on this time last year though

[105.4]

It’s been a while since I last posted on here, mainly because I probably have little of value to add.

I’ve still to see the post Christmas lull. I think I can safely say by now that it isn’t going to happen.

Volume across all four of my customer demographics remains strong, very strong. I’m still seeing an increase every month compared to the same period over the last couple of years, although as always, fuel and insurance costs continue to sting.

I believe I posted my numbers for Jan - Feb earlier on in this thread,(?), so I’ll now concentrate on March and April.


March
Change 2023 vs 2022 + 18.30%
Change 2024 vs 2023 + 16.51%

April
Change 2023 vs 2022 + 9.49%
Change 2024 vs 2023 + 26.85%


April was very busy. How much of this was driven by mega-sales from various retailers I’m afraid I don’t know? Perhaps Skydenier can offer further insight into such matters from his side of the fence?

Hope you chaps are all keeping well and wishing you all a prosperous spring / summer

[Digga]

SuperCarrera said:

TownIdiot said:

Are there any agencies that work on a results basis?
I.e. they get paid a share of sales rather than a monthly budget?

Not amongst the people I know. Likely because most have enough work on being paid their day rate so don't have to work in this way. It's also not that attractive to an SEO as it takes a while to see results if you are in a competitive sector, so could be weeks or months before they get any kind of a return. And all that work then has made your business a lot stronger, not theirs, if you part ways.

IME you have to think, if someone is really good at this stuff, a.) there would not be 'enough' work for them in one small firm and b.) you couldn't afford them full time. What you want is a regualr 'share' of a person you could not afford to emply full time.

[TownIdiot]

Digga said:

ME you have to think, if someone is really good at this stuff, a.) there would not be 'enough' work for them in one small firm and b.) you couldn't afford them full time. What you want is a regualr 'share' of a person you could not afford to emply full time.

I always thought that if they were as good as they say they are they'd back themselves to earn more over the long run.

We've had so much BS and failure to deliver over the years that I have no faith in this sector. It's always jam tomorrow.

I am sure that there are some good ones out there and it might be that our main sector is unreliable.

[bigweb]

Dave_V6 said:

No. And there'll never be one as they are full of st!

You'd think it would be win win, but no, they are so good at their job they get paid even if you get fk all in return (normally blaming their lack of results on Google's latest BS update).

FACT, Google is pay to play now, ramped up in the last year or so. Look at their stock price & earnings, that isn't from serving up "free" organic listings.

This is fairly aggressive so I will bite.

There are loads of agencies that are pay-per-lead or pay-per-case on PPC or Meta Ads in certain verticals. This is due to the fact you can impact results really quickly with the paid platforms.

You won't find this in SEO. This is not due to the fact we are all full of st. It's due to the fact that it could take us 12 months to impact the results positively, by this time we would have invested tens of thousands of pounds into someone else's business who unless you have them in a 3-year contract or something could just fk off. Even if its quicker and you do get to a point where you are returning on your investment you have basically acted as a bank for someone else's business relying on the fact that the businesses management team make good decisions and keep pushing the business forward.

In business it's sensible to try look at it from both or all sides. Your view is pretty blinkered.

If you have only ever had bad experiences with agencies then maybe it's a you problem.

[classicaholic]

Google used to be a good search engine but now its just ads - mostly for something you are not looking for and usually not UK based, It takes ages to find anything you really are looking for now, anyone know of a better UK based search engine, I am fed up of google.

[skwdenyer]

classicaholic said:

Google used to be a good search engine but now its just ads - mostly for something you are not looking for and usually not UK based, It takes ages to find anything you really are looking for now, anyone know of a better UK based search engine, I am fed up of google.

I still find Google tolerable, so long as you learn about search syntax, use inverted commas, and so on. But it is requiring more effort to find decent results.

[TownIdiot]

classicaholic said:

Google used to be a good search engine but now its just ads - mostly for something you are not looking for and usually not UK based, It takes ages to find anything you really are looking for now, anyone know of a better UK based search engine, I am fed up of google.

From a PPC angle it's the only game in town search engine wise though.

We used Bing for a bit but the levels were so low it wasn't worth it.

We'd definitely engage in PPC agency that did revenue share so will do some digging in that direction.

[Tim Cognito]

Our agency is 100% commission based but we do the complete package, design, platform, hosting, SEO, PPC, inventory onboarding, Amazon integration etc.

Anecdotally it seems like the market has a lot of snake oil and fur coat no knickers. Trendy offices, smart marketing, slick sales pitch then once signed up the results may be lacking...

[okgo]

105.4 said:

It’s been a while since I last posted on here, mainly because I probably have little of value to add.

I’ve still to see the post Christmas lull. I think I can safely say by now that it isn’t going to happen.

Volume across all four of my customer demographics remains strong, very strong. I’m still seeing an increase every month compared to the same period over the last couple of years, although as always, fuel and insurance costs continue to sting.

I believe I posted my numbers for Jan - Feb earlier on in this thread,(?), so I’ll now concentrate on March and April.


March
Change 2023 vs 2022 + 18.30%
Change 2024 vs 2023 + 16.51%

April
Change 2023 vs 2022 + 9.49%
Change 2024 vs 2023 + 26.85%


April was very busy. How much of this was driven by mega-sales from various retailers I’m afraid I don’t know? Perhaps Skydenier can offer further insight into such matters from his side of the fence?

Hope you chaps are all keeping well and wishing you all a prosperous spring / summer

You will obviously always see an increase. Online shopping is becoming more and more the default and younger people know nothing else - so when they start working etc you’ll see more and more deliveries.

You don’t know that this is increased money being spent - I’d bet my mortgage on it just being a changing of habits.

[urquattroGus]

Here is a question, we also have an Ebay presence, is it possible to negotiate with Ebay on fees?

My man reckons it now works out at 17.3% costs for cards and services provided, does that sound right?

[Tim Cognito]

urquattroGus said:

Here is a question, we also have an Ebay presence, is it possible to negotiate with Ebay on fees?

My man reckons it now works out at 17.3% costs for cards and services provided, does that sound right?

Yes I'm sure they're very willing to individually negotiate with you, just remember, it's like Brexit, you hold all the cards. Oh hold on....

[urquattroGus]

Tim Cognito said:

urquattroGus said:

Here is a question, we also have an Ebay presence, is it possible to negotiate with Ebay on fees?

My man reckons it now works out at 17.3% costs for cards and services provided, does that sound right?

Yes I'm sure they're very willing to individually negotiate with you, just remember, it's like Brexit, you hold all the cards. Oh hold on....

Wow, why so bitter?

What has it go to do with Brexit?

I am imagining that the fees are relatively fixed but if you do enough volume it *might* be possible to get a better deal.

Also, this is a comment about the general viability of the platform fee vs others and how it used to be.

At the moment I think it still has it's place for stock and fast moving items clearance but I'm evaluating whether we continue.

[Tim Cognito]

urquattroGus said:

Wow, why so bitter?

What has it go to do with Brexit?

I am imagining that the fees are relatively fixed but if you do enough volume it *might* be possible to get a better deal.

Also, this is a comment about the general viability of the platform fee vs others and how it used to be.

At the moment I think it still has it's place for stock and fast moving items clearance but I'm evaluating whether we continue.

I am sorry, I can be a grumpy git.

How much volume are we talking?

You can reduce costs by making sure you have the appropriate shop package for your number of listings. Also looks like they charge an extra 6% fees if you are below standard which I did not know.

[105.4]

okgo said:

You will obviously always see an increase. Online shopping is becoming more and more the default and younger people know nothing else - so when they start working etc you’ll see more and more deliveries.

You don’t know that this is increased money being spent - I’d bet my mortgage on it just being a changing of habits.

I do the same rounds every day. Delivering to the same people, pretty much every day. From impoverished estates where some of the flats don’t have carpets or curtains, to properties worth a couple of million pounds.

I’m not seeing much of a decline in the spending habits of my regular customers, regardless of their socioeconomic standing.

[Dave_V6]

bigweb said:

Dave_V6 said:

No. And there'll never be one as they are full of st!

You'd think it would be win win, but no, they are so good at their job they get paid even if you get fk all in return (normally blaming their lack of results on Google's latest BS update).

FACT, Google is pay to play now, ramped up in the last year or so. Look at their stock price & earnings, that isn't from serving up "free" organic listings.

This is fairly aggressive so I will bite.

There are loads of agencies that are pay-per-lead or pay-per-case on PPC or Meta Ads in certain verticals. This is due to the fact you can impact results really quickly with the paid platforms.

You won't find this in SEO. This is not due to the fact we are all full of st. It's due to the fact that it could take us 12 months to impact the results positively, by this time we would have invested tens of thousands of pounds into someone else's business who unless you have them in a 3-year contract or something could just fk off. Even if its quicker and you do get to a point where you are returning on your investment you have basically acted as a bank for someone else's business relying on the fact that the businesses management team make good decisions and keep pushing the business forward.

In business it's sensible to try look at it from both or all sides. Your view is pretty blinkered.

If you have only ever had bad experiences with agencies then maybe it's a you problem.

Both sides? Absolutely, ironically it's you that is looking at it from your side only. Some quotes off your own website : -


"A well-executed SEO strategy can provide sustainable results and help your website maintain its visibility in the long run. While your competitors focus on short-term results you’ll leave them in the dust with a rock solid SEO strategy that consistently delivers."

"SEO is more cost effective than traditional advertising methods. The initial upfront investment brings many benefits that outweigh the costs. Once your website is consistently bringing in quality traffic that initial investment will feel like a drop in the ocean."

Why would someone "fkoff" as you put it if your SEO strategy is so good???!!!

Tell me, what traffic would you expect from ranking number 1 in organic now vs say 5 years ago?

I've been number 1 or page 1 for hundreds of terms for over 20 years, fact is now Google has ramped all the BS in the SERPs (PPA,PAS, ads disguised as organic etc etc) ranking no 1 or on page 1 hardly makes a difference these days.

Like I said, it's pay to play now with them, you only have to look at the DOJ court papers to work that one out!

Organic is all but dead & you know it, that's why you sell ads! (notice how all "SEO's" sell ads?)

As for your "a you problem" comment, I've never used an agency nor paid for ads, I know plenty who have & burned through ££££££ with a ROI of fk all in the grand scheme of things.

Of course there are plenty who have made £££££ but that is NOTHING to do with "SEO", anyone can pay to play.

Finally, a challenge for you, as you claim you would act like a bank and the customer could "fkoff" at any point, I'll sign a three year contract with you, after 12 months you should be showing results right?

Year 1 I'll pay, years 2 & 3 you'll be paid on your results as in a % of sales gained vs an average of the previous 5 or even 10 years.

However, if after year 1 there is no increase in sales you pay me my money back.

Sounds like a win win to me as you claim your SEO "consistently" delivers.

PM me if interested.