Huge mistake Nokia
Discussion
Simbu said:
- The Nokia / Microsoft thing is the best of a bad situation. Symbian is dead. It lacks the marketing, consumer brand recognition and popular apps to make it compete. People now buy smartphones by the OS on them, and the subsequent app support. Hardware is a secondary consideration. It's a bold move from Nokia, as they now have a differentiator from the likes of HTC. Nokia were never going to use Android with an ex Microsoft man at the helm, and Meego is too late to the party with the same problems as Symbian. It'll be consigned to set-top boxes. As a WP7 developer, I think it's great news!
Precisely. 
Nokia's biggest mistakes were made 4-6 years ago:
- failing to see a touch interface as important
- failing to capitalise on the start they'd made in the area with the N770 & N800
- failing to support Maemo sufficiently
- spending years trying to touch-ify Symbian, when anyone with five minutes to spare could see that its usability was atrocious in comparison to iOS. (This was as stupid as MS bringing the desktop Windows interface paradigm to Windows Mobile.)
No-one had the balls to relegate Symbian to non-touch phones, and instead develop a decent alternative. Google developed Android in this timeframe with --I've read-- a fraction of the developers assigned to Symbian.
So now, they're largely buggered, but they're going back to what they know best: hardware. And in their choice between Android and WM7, they've gone for the option that offers them most differentiation (after all, nearly every big manufacturer now making good quality Android handsets) and for which Microsoft were willing to pay $$$$$s.
mft said:
Simbu said:
People now buy smartphones by the OS on them, and the subsequent app support. Hardware is a secondary consideration.
So now, they're largely buggered, but they're going back to what they know best: hardware. By all accounts, the E7 is the nicest bit of hardware out there, a lovely machine.
But it has the recently ditched Symbian O'S, and there wont be a W7 version, and it appears that it can't be re-flashed with W7, although someone has told me it can?
TonyToniTone said:
Was with a large ms oem yesterday looking at mobile device management and they were saying ms don't have a road map for managing wp7 in the enterprise via sccm etc, so I imagine its some way off.
- Sigh* That adds to my suspicious of there being a definite lack of a plan. I (hopelessly optimistically) emailed Brandon Watson at Microsoft about a week ago asking about this subject, and i've heard squat back. The lack of information is frustrating. Even a "we won't being doing it for at least 6 months" would be better than the ambiguity we have now.
Balmoral Green said:
But it has the recently ditched Symbian O'S, and there wont be a W7 version, and it appears that it can't be re-flashed with W7, although someone has told me it can?
It depends on the E7's hardware specs. The current WP7 OS is designed specifically for some fairly tight hardware requirements in terms of screen resolution (800x400), processor, RAM and ROM spec. etc.That said... Microsoft are likely to be VERY accomodating for their new favourite hardware provider, so don't be surprised if it does become a reality. At the end of the day, it's all ARM based architecture so should be technically possible.
mft said:
recisely.
Nokia's biggest mistakes were made 4-6 years ago:
No-one had the balls to relegate Symbian to non-touch phones, and instead develop a decent alternative. Google developed Android in this timeframe with --I've read-- a fraction of the developers assigned to Symbian.
So now, they're largely buggered, but they're going back to what they know best: hardware. And in their choice between Android and WM7, they've gone for the option that offers them most differentiation (after all, nearly every big manufacturer now making good quality Android handsets) and for which Microsoft were willing to pay $$$$$s.
I put Nokia's mistakes down the following:Nokia's biggest mistakes were made 4-6 years ago:
- failing to see a touch interface as important
- failing to capitalise on the start they'd made in the area with the N770 & N800
- failing to support Maemo sufficiently
- spending years trying to touch-ify Symbian, when anyone with five minutes to spare could see that its usability was atrocious in comparison to iOS. (This was as stupid as MS bringing the desktop Windows interface paradigm to Windows Mobile.)
No-one had the balls to relegate Symbian to non-touch phones, and instead develop a decent alternative. Google developed Android in this timeframe with --I've read-- a fraction of the developers assigned to Symbian.
So now, they're largely buggered, but they're going back to what they know best: hardware. And in their choice between Android and WM7, they've gone for the option that offers them most differentiation (after all, nearly every big manufacturer now making good quality Android handsets) and for which Microsoft were willing to pay $$$$$s.
1. UI got complacent. Series 60 3rd rev was rubbish. Wifi (renamed Wlan of course) was several menus deep which on a wifi phone was pretty poor. The UI was just appalling. The whole experience was quite dreadful.
Result: Apple came along and showed them how to do a real interface.
2. They killed the Communicator! Nokia already had a class leading smart phone out there in the Nokia 9300. I had a 9300 but you would not believe how many women had 9300s! The 9300 had decent apps, just no way of getting on the phone (see UI thing again).
Result: They killed the 9300i, replaced it with a Series 60r3 phone with a £600 price tag after contract rebates! They killed their leading smart phone.
3. Rather than innovate after the iPhone was released, they sat back. They let iPhone become strong, and then they pursued multiple strategies when it was all too late. Too little too late.
4. Too many phones. Nokia used to get the excitement because they had a class leading phone. Remember the days of the 5110, 6110, 7650/3650, the banana phone 8110?, and so forth? They totally screwed that by having too many handsets. How do you create excitement for the latest warm upgrade to a phone?
5. Nokia N95. Average phone in the face of iPhone. They never realised how crap that phone was in comparison to an iPhone.
In truth, what killed Nokia is the iPhone and what is busily nailing Nokia's coffin shut, is Android.
tinman0 said:
4. Too many phones. Nokia used to get the excitement because they had a class leading phone. Remember the days of the 5110, 6110, 7650/3650, the banana phone 8110?, and so forth? They totally screwed that by having too many handsets. How do you create excitement for the latest warm upgrade to a phone?
5. Nokia N95. Average phone in the face of iPhone. They never realised how crap that phone was in comparison to an iPhone.
I think what was also confusing is the way Nokia started to go backwards as well on numbering.5. Nokia N95. Average phone in the face of iPhone. They never realised how crap that phone was in comparison to an iPhone.
Also, each one (as you say) was an upgrade. X had 3g, Xa had 3g and wifi.
Perhaps they should go back to business model phones like the communicator?
I loved the brick 9000,9000i and still use my 9300.
Although I am annoyed they removed 'terminal'
tinman0 said:
5. Nokia N95. Average phone in the face of iPhone. They never realised how crap that phone was in comparison to an iPhone.
Considering it would have been in development for a good while before the iPhone was even rumoured, it wasn't a reply 'in the face of' the iPhone - it was just the next model in Nokia's evolving smartphone lineage. And of its time, the N95 was actually a great phone - in the way that Nokias were. (are?) In addition, it had a *fantastic* still & video camera, GPS, and HSDPA - it was class-defining. If you wanted a smartphone with a keypad --and before the iPhone, who didn't?-- it was great. I loved mine!Unfortunately, Nokia's first touchscreen phone after the iPhone's release --the 5800, which would be seen as their response to the iPhone-- was really poor. It was hobbled with Symbian, and the usability was terrible. And from that point, they were always fighting a losing battle. Shame - as a Nokia fanboy, I was waiting to buy their 'iPhone beater', but couldn't even consider the 5800!
What I simply don't understand is why no-one at Nokia had the balls to get firm and demand their engineers make a phone that was as usable and feature-rich as the iPhone. FFS, Nokia was the biggest phone manufacturer in the world! Maybe the corporate Nokia lacked someone as demanding and uncompromising as Steve Jobs?
mft said:
Unfortunately, Nokia's first touchscreen phone after the iPhone's release --the 5800, which would be seen as their response to the iPhone-- was really poor. It was hobbled with Symbian, and the usability was terrible. And from that point, they were always fighting a losing battle. Shame - as a Nokia fanboy, I was waiting to buy their 'iPhone beater', but couldn't even consider the 5800!
I agree with that. I have one (hassled at the time by Vodafone). Its crap. No really crap. You can tell the software has been rushed and its so dis-jointed in its operation. Even the software updates do nothing to help.What really makes me laugh about it is, that its supposed to be a media phone and yet, will not play divx.
Great shame as it has GPS, tiltmeter, wifi, good screen, etc.
Only reason I keep it is the camera (with flash).
Morningside said:
I think what was also confusing is the way Nokia started to go backwards as well on numbering.
Also, each one (as you say) was an upgrade. X had 3g, Xa had 3g and wifi.
Perhaps they should go back to business model phones like the communicator?
I loved the brick 9000,9000i and still use my 9300.
Although I am annoyed they removed 'terminal'
Go back to the Communicator? Too late. Elop is right that phones need ecosystems now, and Nokia are too far behind the game now.Also, each one (as you say) was an upgrade. X had 3g, Xa had 3g and wifi.
Perhaps they should go back to business model phones like the communicator?
I loved the brick 9000,9000i and still use my 9300.
Although I am annoyed they removed 'terminal'
Terminal - install putty?
After many, many happy years with Nokias and symbian from its early days in the 7650, yesterday morning I begrudgingly switched to a HTC from an N900.
I felt that the although Maemo was getting there, it was not just as adaptable or well supported as the Android or iPhone apps, and after hearing about the Nokia Windows link up, I felt it was time to look at options. I loved Symbian, and my previous 7710, N95 & N96 were heavily modified to very capable and powerful tools. I have looked closely at iPhones in the past, but never felt at ease with them, but Vodafone kindly gave me a HTC as freebie just before christmas. I had planned to cash it in on ebay, but after 2 days, I feel myself converting.
The N900 is a great piece of kit IMO, but it was chunky, the keypad was adequate but not great but more tellingly it did not feel as slick to use and despite regular OS upgrades and various firmware utilities it was still slow and glitchy. I've also felt that the apps were more gimmicky than genuinely useful - although the child in me loved the IR standby nuke, and I had a good few laughs in Tesco and Currys watching their screens switch off one by one
I'm not quite ready to ebay it yet, but I feel it coming and it will be an emotional day to walk away from Nokia/Symbian/Maemo.
My name is Steve, and I am Nokia-holic.
I felt that the although Maemo was getting there, it was not just as adaptable or well supported as the Android or iPhone apps, and after hearing about the Nokia Windows link up, I felt it was time to look at options. I loved Symbian, and my previous 7710, N95 & N96 were heavily modified to very capable and powerful tools. I have looked closely at iPhones in the past, but never felt at ease with them, but Vodafone kindly gave me a HTC as freebie just before christmas. I had planned to cash it in on ebay, but after 2 days, I feel myself converting.
The N900 is a great piece of kit IMO, but it was chunky, the keypad was adequate but not great but more tellingly it did not feel as slick to use and despite regular OS upgrades and various firmware utilities it was still slow and glitchy. I've also felt that the apps were more gimmicky than genuinely useful - although the child in me loved the IR standby nuke, and I had a good few laughs in Tesco and Currys watching their screens switch off one by one
I'm not quite ready to ebay it yet, but I feel it coming and it will be an emotional day to walk away from Nokia/Symbian/Maemo.
My name is Steve, and I am Nokia-holic.
Steve in Stoke said:
N900
The N900 with maemo is absolutely fantastic. The problem is, you need to know what you're doing to experience how fantastic it is. Without knowing what you're doing, it's average. Easy enough to use, but a little bit too buggy to compete with Android/iOS. If you know what you're doing, it outclasses everything, many times over.The standard applications are gimmicky, which is why you need to add the advanced repositories. Maemo has absolutely beastly potential and it saddens and disappoints me to think Nokia are letting it slide.
The bugs are retarded though. I have a desktop widget for media player, if you boot the phone with that desktop as the one that shows first, all sound on the phone is killed. Text messages can cause the message application to suicide and restart and then refuse to display any messages at all. Without overclocking (I run mine at 805mhz on ultra low voltage and it will hit 950+ at normal voltage) it feels distinctly laggy. Oh and the battery life is crap.
These are all mild issues really, reboots fix anything usually and mostly the phone works smoothly. The website display is superior to anything else I've used. My N900 has also been dropped a s
tload of times and survived well.Anyway, I love nokia, I adore maemo, but I'm afraid their switch to WM will mean this N900 or whatever they release with Maemo next will be my last Nokia phone. I really am a diehard Nokia fan too, this whole thing saddens me immensely.
Pr1964 said:
RIP NOKIA
They had it all and ....... then forgot what they were supposed to be doing .
They made good solid phones for making calls now they make cheap phones which do nothing well.
All they needed to do was improve on the 6310i
7day battery life and clear calls.
But no they decided to go backwards and make phones with 2-3 day battery life poor web and poor call quality.
They had it all and ....... then forgot what they were supposed to be doing .
They made good solid phones for making calls now they make cheap phones which do nothing well.
All they needed to do was improve on the 6310i
7day battery life and clear calls.
But no they decided to go backwards and make phones with 2-3 day battery life poor web and poor call quality.
They made great phones, my father in construction had a 5110 and a 5210, the latter he dropped in a bucket of cement but the phone didn't seem to care at all
.After years of abusing them, having to replace them because of battery life or the screen becoming unreadable in the light because of scratches, he now uses £30 phones of various manufacturers.
The only one that seems a bit created for him is a Sonim but they are 1) to expensive 2) rubbish menu 3) too much functions
Too bad nokia doesn't make the 5210 anymore
ZesPak said:
The only one that seems a bit created for him is a Sonim but they are 1) to expensive 2) rubbish menu 3) too much functions
Too bad nokia doesn't make the 5210 anymore
http://shop.vodafone.co.uk/shop/mobile-phone/samsung-solid-extreme?readReviews=trueToo bad nokia doesn't make the 5210 anymore
http://www.unwiredview.com/2010/11/04/jcb-tradesma...
and dunno how this is branded in UK
http://store.telecom.co.nz/mobile/pay-monthly/tele...
tinman0 said:
Go back to the Communicator? Too late. Elop is right that phones need ecosystems now, and Nokia are too far behind the game now.
Terminal - install putty?
I'm a pretty tech savvy guy. In fact I'm posting this from a conference room with a screen of SQL code on the projector which everyone is going through. However, I don't have the feintest idea what your post meant Terminal - install putty?
TonyHetherington said:
I'm a pretty tech savvy guy. In fact I'm posting this from a conference room with a screen of SQL code on the projector which everyone is going through. However, I don't have the feintest idea what your post meant
Ecosystems... mean apps, services and alike to make you want to buy the product. no longer do you buy aphone to use as aphone, but all the other ancillary crap around it, twiter, facebook google maps.ETA : http://gigaom.com/mobile/mobile-is-now-a-game-of-e...
Edited by lestag on Tuesday 15th March 11:55
TonyHetherington said:
tinman0 said:
Go back to the Communicator? Too late. Elop is right that phones need ecosystems now, and Nokia are too far behind the game now.
Terminal - install putty?
I'm a pretty tech savvy guy. In fact I'm posting this from a conference room with a screen of SQL code on the projector which everyone is going through. However, I don't have the faintest idea what your post meant Terminal - install putty?
Very simply; train left the station whilst Nokia wasn't looking.
Gassing Station | Computers, Gadgets & Stuff | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff