Discussion
Noger said:
Hehe, very true ! (won't last though 
)
A friend had a Zaurus 6/7 years ago, running Linux. Was pretty impressed at the time.
Got an SL-5000D right here in front of me. At the time, with a CF wifi card, did a war-walk from Cannon St to Liverpool St station and picked up 14 unsecure Wifi networks in City organisations... Kismet on Linux, with Prism2 chipset, really worked well. And a slide out keyboard, CF slot for wifi and an SD slot for storage - now SD goes up to a few GB, the SL-5000 Zaurus is still a really attractive device (from a hacker's point of view) - if that had a phone in it, it'd be ace. It's not *that* much bigger than the iPhone, it's chunky though and there's a lot more electronics and a smaller battery. But I bought it in early 2002, they must be able to do much better than that now!!!! )A friend had a Zaurus 6/7 years ago, running Linux. Was pretty impressed at the time.
Noger said:
In reality I am a ink/touchscreen fan more than anything, and that is why I tend to fall into the M$ fan camp, they provide more support for this than anyone else.
Did you ever try the Newton? I'm determined not to turn this into Apple vs Microsoft yet again, but Apple had a rather neat handwriting tablet a LONG time ago...
ehyouwhat said:
chris.mapey said:
As an aside - I'd love an iPhone, but not on O2, as their data billing is legendary
As far as I know the iPhone tariffs come with unlimited data allowance (subject to fair use, but then so is the T-Mobile Web'N'Walk service), so it shouldn't be a problem for the vast majority of people anyway. There are heavy users that might have a problem, but numbers of such will be limited.I'm not saying the service is cheap - £55 for 1200 minute, 500 texts and unlimited data isn't especially great, especially if you've been a T-Mobile customer - but it also isn't awful. I should also point out that the prices I've quoted are Carphone Warehouse prices - 'online' prices with O2 may well be cheaper, especially after a month or so.
Personally I would much rather be an O2 customer than a T-Mobile customer. Admittedly the O2 customer service system is shockingly crap, but at least I get reasonable reception for the majority of the time. T-Mobile reception was patchy at best in my last two homes, and a recent test as part of my work has shown the new place isn't much better with T-Mobile either.
It's horses for courses, as with any handset or indeed any device at all. I get first-hand experience of dozens of phone handsets every year within my role, and I see poor handsets and great handsets alike. The iPhone is flawed, make no mistake - it's large (if thin), relatively slow in terms of network speed and has ommisions (such as MMS apparently). But it's also revolutionary in the way you can interact with it, and for that it is worthy of consideration for anyone who wants one. It's also a jack-of-all-trades, with superb iPod functionality in the same package as phone and PDA positives. 99% of people could use it as a sole device, and believe me when I say there aren't many standard handsets that perform truly well as a music player.
I currently swap and change between four different handsets for personal use: a Nokia 8600 Luna, a Nokia N73 Music Edition, an XDA Orbit and an HTC TyTN II. I expect (and hope) the iPhone can take the place of at least a couple of those (probably the N73 and the Orbit as they are the oldest).
For those who don't want to go the Apple route, there are a number of alternatives here and on the horizon. The Sony Ericsson W960i is a superb handset and one that most people will be able to get on with when it is released. It's quite small, highly powered and has a similar storage capacity to the iPhone. The interface is nowhere near on the level of the iPhone, but is still excellent. The forthcoming Nokia N95 8GB also offers many of the things that people want - it's a good development on the clever (but flawed) N95. For those who do want the clever interface there is also the HTC Touch and (to a lesser extent) HTC TyTN II - both highly capable and both with nice touchscreen interfaces. And of course for anyone who wants a smaller handset there is a wealth of reasonable kit out there - the soon-to-be-released Sony Ericsson K850i will surely be one of the best.
Edited to correct name of handset in order to stop any confusion.
Edited by ehyouwhat on Tuesday 18th September 21:01
A phone is no lionger just a phone is it? How many people ever just talk into one now?
cyberface said:
Did you ever try the Newton? I'm determined not to turn this into Apple vs Microsoft yet again, but Apple had a rather neat handwriting tablet a LONG time ago...
Picked up one 2nd hand in 1996 (if memory serves), it was pinched in Mexico City a year later. Hopefully they are still using it ! Messagepad 120 running 2.0. Lovely it was. The Notetaking app was absolutely the best thing ever. It is amazing that even now things like Evernote won't allow you to mix text and ink. It has taken 10 years until OneNote 2007 to get back to that (sadly ON still misses Evernote and Newton Note's bogroll paradigm). ON2007 running Origami mode (the limited UI view) on my UMPC is about as close as I can get. And to be honest it is not as much fun as the Newton. OneNote's abilty to import and export from so many places makes it so much more useful of course. The sharing is nothing short of magic, and it obviously goes beyond just note taking.
Chris Pratley, the PM for OneNote (until recently) used to blog about how he was a huge Newton fan and used one for years I think.
So yes, it is all stuff that has been seen before. But of course the point is that it is still available. Sadly the Newton is not. Still think about getting an old one, for old times sake.
The handwriting recognition was amazing for 10 years ago. Not as good as Vista's in recognising cursive script, people who say othewise will be talking about the printed script recognition. And the dictionary was fairly small. But still amazing for something with the raw computing power of today's Fridge-Freezers.
Had Apple not got cold feet over the Newton, I would no doubt be a Mac Fanboy to this day.
cyberface said:
Noger said:
Hehe, very true ! (won't last though )
A friend had a Zaurus 6/7 years ago, running Linux. Was pretty impressed at the time.
Got an SL-5000D right here in front of me. At the time, with a CF wifi card, did a war-walk from Cannon St to Liverpool St station and picked up 14 unsecure Wifi networks in City organisations... Kismet on Linux, with Prism2 chipset, really worked well. And a slide out keyboard, CF slot for wifi and an SD slot for storage - now SD goes up to a few GB, the SL-5000 Zaurus is still a really attractive device (from a hacker's point of view) - if that had a phone in it, it'd be ace. It's not *that* much bigger than the iPhone, it's chunky though and there's a lot more electronics and a smaller battery. But I bought it in early 2002, they must be able to do much better than that now!!!! )A friend had a Zaurus 6/7 years ago, running Linux. Was pretty impressed at the time.
Noger said:
In reality I am a ink/touchscreen fan more than anything, and that is why I tend to fall into the M$ fan camp, they provide more support for this than anyone else.
Did you ever try the Newton? I'm determined not to turn this into Apple vs Microsoft yet again, but Apple had a rather neat handwriting tablet a LONG time ago...I just picked up an N95 myself, i've been in the Symbian camp for years now for phones. I'm still keen on the Openmoko project to release a totally open source linux touchscreen smartphone and the first release version (FIC Neo1973) should come out next month but, like the iPhone there is no 3g version yet and I really do hammer the mobile data. The 3g version of it looks to show up 1st or 2nd quarter next year.
A pal of mine works in a well-known electrical shop and they have them 'in stock' but aren't allowed to sell them yet. A quick look at the Apple Store website shows they aren't shipping them yet either. I guess some of the actual stores must have decided to start selling them early.
Are there any differences between the Touch and the iPhone, aside from the actual phone-specific features? Does the Touch have Google Maps or anything like that?
Is that touchscreen as good to use as it looks?
Are there any differences between the Touch and the iPhone, aside from the actual phone-specific features? Does the Touch have Google Maps or anything like that?
Is that touchscreen as good to use as it looks?
Edited by ehyouwhat on Thursday 20th September 19:34
ehyouwhat said:
A pal of mine works in a well-known electrical shop and they have them 'in stock' but aren't allowed to sell them yet. A quick look at the Apple Store website shows they aren't shipping them yet either. I guess some of the actual stores must have decided to start selling them early.
Are there any differences between the Touch and the iPhone, aside from the actual phone-specific features? Does the Touch have Goole Maps or anything like that?
Is that touchscreen as good to use as it looks?
The Apple stores have been selling the touch since just after Steve Jobs finished his key note speech on Tuesday.Are there any differences between the Touch and the iPhone, aside from the actual phone-specific features? Does the Touch have Goole Maps or anything like that?
Is that touchscreen as good to use as it looks?
As far as web use goes both of the above posts were done from the touch. As far as google maps goes it has the full safari web browser on it, so yes, google maps does work in a normal web window with full search function just as it does on the web
One thing of note is that I conected to my home wireless network without the need to the wep key... very naughty that the itouch just ignores the security and flies right online. So I guess wifi borwsing when out and about might be quite easy
ehyouwhat said:
A pal of mine works in a well-known electrical shop and they have them 'in stock' but aren't allowed to sell them yet. A quick look at the Apple Store website shows they aren't shipping them yet either. I guess some of the actual stores must have decided to start selling them early.
Are there any differences between the Touch and the iPhone, aside from the actual phone-specific features? Does the Touch have Goole Maps or anything like that?
Is that touchscreen as good to use as it looks?
I'll let you know as soon as I get mine. It's on pre-order, and should ship next week.Are there any differences between the Touch and the iPhone, aside from the actual phone-specific features? Does the Touch have Goole Maps or anything like that?
Is that touchscreen as good to use as it looks?
CommanderJameson said:
ehyouwhat said:
Are there any differences between the Touch and the iPhone, aside from the actual phone-specific features? Does the Touch have Goole Maps or anything like that?
Goole maps, eh?Ask, and ye shall receive...
I miss it
I was in Apple Store Birmingham on Thursday night and they have three demo models on display, but had sold out of stock by 18:00.
The touch screen is fantastic, if they'd have had one in stock I'd have bought one, its one of those gadgets that you find hard to resist despite some of the shortcomings.
Looking foward to November the 9th, I'm getting that iPhone, so kind of glad the touch was out of stock!
Was very impressed with the Safari browser, the way it functions is so far ahead of any other mobile internet browsers that the lack of 3G support in the iPhone doesn't seem like such an issue to me.
The touch screen is fantastic, if they'd have had one in stock I'd have bought one, its one of those gadgets that you find hard to resist despite some of the shortcomings.
Looking foward to November the 9th, I'm getting that iPhone, so kind of glad the touch was out of stock!
Was very impressed with the Safari browser, the way it functions is so far ahead of any other mobile internet browsers that the lack of 3G support in the iPhone doesn't seem like such an issue to me.
AndyWoodall said:
the way it functions is so far ahead of any other mobile internet browsers that the lack of 3G support in the iPhone doesn't seem like such an issue to me.
Compared to say Deepfish or Opera ? Any particular features that make it "so far ahead" ? From what I have seen it is the multitouch that makes it, not the browser itself. Plenty of full screen rendering browsers out there, and some that even do it on the server for you too. Not that it doesn't look a great experience compared to some, but I can't see that it is so far ahead.Somebody was trumpeting their "fast" 184Kbps iPhone connection the other day. At that sort of speed I am on the phone to Voda asking for my money back
Yes, I suppose technically its the multi touch I'm refering to, thats what made the experience for me.
But then again, I don't see that as being a criticism particularly. It wasn't the mp3 bits of the original iPod that made it into a best seller, it was the interface and its application.
But then again, I don't see that as being a criticism particularly. It wasn't the mp3 bits of the original iPod that made it into a best seller, it was the interface and its application.
The slightly larger screen on an iPhone than most mobiles helps a lot as well.
Much as any manucturer likes to pretend that reading the Wall Street Journal on a tiny screen is perfectly wonderful, I have never found that the case. Occasional browsing perhaps, but there is often no substitute for size !
Much as any manucturer likes to pretend that reading the Wall Street Journal on a tiny screen is perfectly wonderful, I have never found that the case. Occasional browsing perhaps, but there is often no substitute for size !
Note to anyone considering the iPod Touch who's planning to hack it like I have with the iPhone - Apple have changed the communication methodology between the device and the computer via USB and 'jailbreak' no longer works.
As a result nobody yet has cracked into the iPod Touch to add their own SSH server (and from this, the unix userland can be installed, and other apps, etc.)
So the original iPhones are certainly hackable and have been - if that's your bag then be very careful before buying an iPod Touch, and it certainly seems that this as-yet-unbroken protocol will be used on future iPhones...
Noger - moving from mac-fanboy to ms-fanboy? Fantastic to see someone with an open mind, dogma and quasi-religious idiocy seems to be the order of the day in much of IT. Microsoft simply haven't given me anything to enthuse about - other than SQL Server starting at v. 7...
As a result nobody yet has cracked into the iPod Touch to add their own SSH server (and from this, the unix userland can be installed, and other apps, etc.)
So the original iPhones are certainly hackable and have been - if that's your bag then be very careful before buying an iPod Touch, and it certainly seems that this as-yet-unbroken protocol will be used on future iPhones...
Noger - moving from mac-fanboy to ms-fanboy? Fantastic to see someone with an open mind, dogma and quasi-religious idiocy seems to be the order of the day in much of IT. Microsoft simply haven't given me anything to enthuse about - other than SQL Server starting at v. 7...
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