Why do Apple devices not run Flash?
Discussion
paddyhasneeds said:
The only time I've encountered Flash issues (other than it being a bit of resource hog) has been when using Safari.
The "other than being a bit of a resource hog" is the problem. Apart from being prone to crashing easily when poorly coded, it is always heavy on the cpu. Start a flash movie playing and then have look at 'top' or 'Activity Monitor'. That will kill your battery in very short order and can I understand why Apple has said, "no more".sjg said:
paddyhasneeds said:
At work I have several hundred Windows PCs, all run Flash, it gives us no problems.
Beyond patching them frequently because of yet another exploit and security fix?http://www.macnn.com/articles/10/07/22/exploit.una...
http://www.zdnet.com/blog/security/pwn2own-macbook...
Edited by Silent1 on Sunday 1st August 16:54
sjg said:
paddyhasneeds said:
At work I have several hundred Windows PCs, all run Flash, it gives us no problems.
Beyond patching them frequently because of yet another exploit and security fix?
kage of patches and updates for Flash and Acrobat.My point is simply that whilst it's a resource hog, I can't remember when Chrome last crashed on my Mac and it runs flash all the time, so perhaps it's something about Safari, though whether it's an issue with Safari or Flash I don't know (personally I've never understood how a web browser can be quite so bloated as Safari seems to be every time I do use it for any period of time but that's a different matter).
Blue Meanie said:
RobDickinson said:
Mr_annie_vxr said:
Isn't the answer then not to buy apple products if you don't like the restrictions of the app store or the lack of flash?
I honestly dont think the typical apple consumer knows or understands...
How incredible patronising.paddyhasneeds said:
Blue Meanie said:
RobDickinson said:
Mr_annie_vxr said:
Isn't the answer then not to buy apple products if you don't like the restrictions of the app store or the lack of flash?
I honestly dont think the typical apple consumer knows or understands... How incredible patronising.Some devices can run it, if you must. Their desktop and laptop line can.
Apple deem it too power hungry and unstable. I believe you can run it if you jailbreak your iphone/ipad. But, of course, should you screw up the device in doing so, it's your problem and not Apples (they "told you so").
Personally I respect them from taking a stand against something they think will cause major issues on their device. Especially when that something is widely understood to be pretty shoddy anyway, and for which there are plenty of other alternatives if software developers aren't lazy.
The comments around the app store are off base in this instance I think...there are thousands of free apps on there, so the ability to develop free stuff remains (assuming it's developed properly.
For paid stuff, there are equally plenty of low cost apps that seem to make shed loads of money. Apple may take a large cut (I know not), but I would guess the developers of these apps also make quite a bit of cash by bagging customers from one of the "premium" platforms? And for non-low cost stuff.
Apple deem it too power hungry and unstable. I believe you can run it if you jailbreak your iphone/ipad. But, of course, should you screw up the device in doing so, it's your problem and not Apples (they "told you so").
Personally I respect them from taking a stand against something they think will cause major issues on their device. Especially when that something is widely understood to be pretty shoddy anyway, and for which there are plenty of other alternatives if software developers aren't lazy.
The comments around the app store are off base in this instance I think...there are thousands of free apps on there, so the ability to develop free stuff remains (assuming it's developed properly.
For paid stuff, there are equally plenty of low cost apps that seem to make shed loads of money. Apple may take a large cut (I know not), but I would guess the developers of these apps also make quite a bit of cash by bagging customers from one of the "premium" platforms? And for non-low cost stuff.
Blue Meanie said:
paddyhasneeds said:
Blue Meanie said:
RobDickinson said:
Mr_annie_vxr said:
Isn't the answer then not to buy apple products if you don't like the restrictions of the app store or the lack of flash?
I honestly dont think the typical apple consumer knows or understands... How incredible patronising.I buy electronic things to work not to bugger about with. Why folk like constantly arsing about with computers i will never understand.
That said folk will never understand why i like buggering about with old landrovers
Flash is a hateful and nasty plug-in and the sooner it dies the better.
Its unreliable, crash-happy and consumes far too much CPU / memory for what it is. Although I say this, I don't necessarily agree with Apple and their stance on Flash. I think its better to be a little more reasonable, but clearly show the technical advantages of doing it a different way for example. But thats me I suppose and I am not a CEO of a multi-billion dollar company! Maybe this is why?
Anyway, I simply do not get this constant 'I need Flash' rubbish. Its nasty and offers me nothing that I cannot get in a more efficient, reliable and better way - though it might take a little longer to develop in the first place. I am starting to see Flash is for lazy web page developers though. A cheap, nasty and simple way to add 'content' to a site. Yet in fact, a better designed site is easier to use, nicer and simpler. Consumers want sites that are fast to load, interact well and have simple clean lines - not overly complex plug-in happy pieces of crap. Sorry, but Flash is so often over used that its a nightmare.
I do think that Flash is on a downhill now though. Microsoft have all but effectively stopped doing anything with Silverlight (their competitor) because of newer and better ways to do things. Youtube recently re-vamped itself and its even better than it was (take a look on an iPhone or iPad) and Apples arguments are starting to make sense. HTML 5 is potentially the way forward and Vimeo (one of the largest carriers of Flash video) has switched by the way and the Porn industry is moving away from Flash due to its insecurity (users are starting to steer clear because of the security issues). Ok, so the Porn one is limited, but it shows that the market as a whole is moving away from Flash and its going to be a marginal thing in time.
Now, the bigger question is 'what is the best way to do this'?
Its unreliable, crash-happy and consumes far too much CPU / memory for what it is. Although I say this, I don't necessarily agree with Apple and their stance on Flash. I think its better to be a little more reasonable, but clearly show the technical advantages of doing it a different way for example. But thats me I suppose and I am not a CEO of a multi-billion dollar company! Maybe this is why?
Anyway, I simply do not get this constant 'I need Flash' rubbish. Its nasty and offers me nothing that I cannot get in a more efficient, reliable and better way - though it might take a little longer to develop in the first place. I am starting to see Flash is for lazy web page developers though. A cheap, nasty and simple way to add 'content' to a site. Yet in fact, a better designed site is easier to use, nicer and simpler. Consumers want sites that are fast to load, interact well and have simple clean lines - not overly complex plug-in happy pieces of crap. Sorry, but Flash is so often over used that its a nightmare.
I do think that Flash is on a downhill now though. Microsoft have all but effectively stopped doing anything with Silverlight (their competitor) because of newer and better ways to do things. Youtube recently re-vamped itself and its even better than it was (take a look on an iPhone or iPad) and Apples arguments are starting to make sense. HTML 5 is potentially the way forward and Vimeo (one of the largest carriers of Flash video) has switched by the way and the Porn industry is moving away from Flash due to its insecurity (users are starting to steer clear because of the security issues). Ok, so the Porn one is limited, but it shows that the market as a whole is moving away from Flash and its going to be a marginal thing in time.
Now, the bigger question is 'what is the best way to do this'?
Windows has been historically buggy, hell even MS's own updates frequently fubar the OS. If you support SBS2008 you'll agree with me when it suddenly broke for about two months in January as the OS developers changed the kernel authentication mode but didn't let the Exchange team know 
Two months of users kicking my ass for something that's completely out of my control.
I for one welcome any attempts to bring a bit of QC into the software arena. To date 'Doze has been far too wild west for my liking!
Two months of users kicking my ass for something that's completely out of my control.I for one welcome any attempts to bring a bit of QC into the software arena. To date 'Doze has been far too wild west for my liking!
I've been having major problems with Flash because some developers decide to create web applications in Flash. It can barely cope with spinning logos so why you'd want to create an advanced system dealing with money I have no idea. 
I have found that the quickest way to stop it misbehaving is to kill which ever version of Chrome.exe has 200kb in Task Manager.
So back on topic, I understand why Apple refuse to have anything to do with Flash. The average user would think it's a problem with his computer or, at best, the browser.
I have found that the quickest way to stop it misbehaving is to kill which ever version of Chrome.exe has 200kb in Task Manager.
So back on topic, I understand why Apple refuse to have anything to do with Flash. The average user would think it's a problem with his computer or, at best, the browser.
Edited by ShadownINja on Wednesday 4th August 13:07
steve z said:
What's the history behind Apple devices not running Flash?
Biggest reason is that Adobe haven't given them a version that doesn't eat the battery. Adobe have a history of promising decent versions of Flash and not delivering (proper 64bit Flash plugin anyone on x86?). The Flash plugin for OSX is dire at best, and Adobe still haven't sorted out many of the problems on that either yet they've had years to sort it. So Adobe have a history with Flash of not really giving a damn.
Second reason is that it will run like a pig on a mobile device. As demonstrated by the beta plugins already out there. So you now have a plugin that eats your battery alive and runs like a pig.
Third reason is that Apple and Adobe have history. Not good history. There is most definitely an element of Apple going out to murder Adobe's baby. Which is exactly what Adobe have done in the past to Apple on more than a few occasions.
Fourth reason is money, but I don't think its as big a thing as people think because although the revenues on App Store might be considerable, it's not a core part of Apple. Apple make an iPad and have a $200 mark up, compared to a 30% cut of apps that people download, which are mainly free apps anyway. I doubt our iPad has bought more than $50 of apps, yet MrsT uses it all the time (I guess that Apple will make $12.50 when she buys the FM Pro app in a couple of weeks though). The App Store benefits developers financially more than it does to Apple's bottom line. (A good App Store does help Apple's hardware sales of course.)
The money isn't in the apps anyway, the real money is in the advertising that is being bolted onto the free stuff at the moment.
steve z said:
What's the history behind Apple devices not running Flash?
Biggest reason is that Adobe haven't given them a version that doesn't eat the battery alive. Adobe have a history of promising decent versions of Flash and not delivering (proper 64bit Flash plugin anyone on x86?). The Flash plugin for OSX is dire at best, and Adobe still haven't sorted out many of the problems on that either.So Adobe have a history with Flash of not really giving a damn.
Second reason is that it will run like a pig on a mobile device. As demonstrated by the beta plugins already out there. So you now have a plugin that eats your battery alive and runs like a pig.
Third reason is that Apple and Adobe have history. Not good history. There is most definitely an element of Apple going out to murder Adobe's baby. Which is exactly what Adobe have done in the past to Apple on more than a few occasions.
Fourth reason is money, but I don't think its as big a thing as people think because although the revenues on App Store might be considerable, it's not a core part of Apple. Apple make an iPad and have a $200 mark up, compared to a 30% cut of apps that people download, which are mainly free apps anyway. I doubt our iPad has bought more than $50 of apps, yet MrsT uses it all the time (I guess that Apple will make $12.50 when she buys the FM Pro app in a couple of weeks though). The App Store benefits developers financially than it does to Apple's bottom line. (A good App Store does help Apple's hardware sales of course.)
The money isn't in the apps anyway, the real money is in the advertising that is being bolted onto the free stuff at the moment.
pbirkett said:
LOL, so Safari crashes when it tries to run flash, and yet, firefox and pretty much all the other browsers on the PC do not, and its flash thats broken???? 
Honestly, you Apple owners are so blinkered, its truly unbelievable!!
Honestly, you Apple owners are so blinkered, its truly unbelievable!!
Exactly. Yes it does eat the CPU and therefore battery life, but flash never crashes for me (on Linux, which is similar to OS X).pbirkett said:
LOL, so Safari crashes when it tries to run flash, and yet, firefox and pretty much all the other browsers on the PC do not, and its flash thats broken????
Honestly, you Apple owners are so blinkered, its truly unbelievable!!
Sorry, but you want to blame apple because the flash pluton in abysmal? How on earth is apple supposed to control what a third party does?Honestly, you Apple owners are so blinkered, its truly unbelievable!!
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