Huge mistake Nokia

[thehawk]

Why are you also going on about T9 - my Samsung Galaxy S2 has T9 input. (and is currently on 20 hours since last charge)

[DrTre]

thehawk said:

Why are you also going on about T9 - my Samsung Galaxy S2 has T9 input. (and is currently on 20 hours since last charge)

I was wondering that. My HTC has it too.

[Oakey]

Pr1964 said:

What is it about iPhone users that makes them so defensive about having an iPhone, and justifying the shocking battery life?

To the extent that they have to write articles like this dissecting why Siri gave a particular answer;

http://www.guardian.co.uk/technology/blog/2012/may...

Edited by Oakey on Monday 14th May 10:16

[ZesPak]

Oakey said:

To the extent that they have to write articles like this dissecting why Siri gave a particular answer;

http://www.guardian.co.uk/technology/blog/2012/may...

This comment quite sums it up:

Article said:

Apple does produce the most beautiful products, but the iPhone 4S was not innovative with only claim to innovation with Siri. Now, Apple worshippers have a dreadful dilema: if Siri returns iPhone 4 as not the BEST, then it is useless (which anyone unbiased who used it will probably vouch), but if it is useless, then what is the difference between Iphone 4 and 4S?

This is the dissonance that the writer of this piece is trying to reconcile.

[CommanderJameson]

Aside: There is more difference between the 4 and 4S than there is between the 3GS and the 4.

Just sayin'.

[Dave200]

Pr1964 said:

Do you ever read reviews of HTC’s and iPhones etc every other reviewer says
“Poor battery life is / can be a problem”

Pr1964 said:

I also see plenty using iPhones too but those guys tend to have two mobiles an old t9.

Pr1964 said:

Touch screen battery draining bloated software garbage

Pr1964 said:

What is it about iPhone users that makes them so defensive about having an iPhone, and justifying the shocking battery life?

Your ability to generalise wildly and to invent your own 'facts' is really making you look a little bit silly now.

Can we just agree that your tastes differ from approximately 90-95% of people in developed markets. Complaining that you're not being catered for is ridiculous. These companies are in business to make the largest profits possible - catering to 5% of the market doesn't achieve this.

[Balmoral]

The thread that just won't die!

[Greenie]

Balmoral said:

The thread that just won't die!

Why on earth would we want it to? Pr1964 is hilarious.

[Greenie]

Pr1964 said:

Tell you what go and find me a currently available replacement for my C5 which doesn't have something missing or perform worst in one area or other and I'll go away promise...

Have you thought about the iphone? They are really fab. Battery life's not great but I'm sure you'll get used to it.

[jammy_basturd]

Not even a migration of all the parrots in the world is going to be enough this time.

[Bibbs]

Pr1964 said:

Do you think Nokia have a good product line up at the moment?

No, because they do too many phones with buttons and shocking build quality.

The W7 ones are okay though. Nice big touch screen and good OS, way better than that cack that was Symbian.

[wolves_wanderer]

Pr1964 said:

This happens regularly and I find it quite funny...

I call it "shop assistant logic"

Bear with me... here . ". I know but" .... You will find this funny... Especially as this has happened to you it happens to all of us..

I got to a shop to buy an item...
The last time it was a particular well known brand of shaving foam. Let's call it VX.

My local chemist stocks 6 different types of shaving foam I've been buying VX for the last 4 years as it smells nice works well and unlike a few others doesn't give me a rash..

So VX has been in the chemist for the last 100 years usually they have one or two cans amongst dozens of each of the other shaving foams...

Except the last time I went in I couldn't find any, 

So I asked the chemist shop assistant "hi where's the VX?" 

"oh" she says "we've stopped selling VX." 
"Why?" I ask
"well she says it didn't sell very well and there was no demand.." 
"oh" I say " that's strange because every time I came in to buy some there were only ever a couple of cans but dozens of cans of the others brands, so to me it looked like VX was a good seller because there were never that many on the shelves"
"well" she says "if it sold well we'd have lots on the shelves!"

That to me is fookin hysterical..... Genius "shop assistant logic"..

Some on this thread have used, shop assistant logic... 
Maybe they are shop assistants?

Erm, that is exactly how shops work. More stock is always carried of popular lines and vice versa.

Pity you didn't have a smartphone, you could have checked if anywhere local was selling your shaving foam

[clonmult]

Bibbs said:

No, because they do too many phones with buttons and shocking build quality.

The W7 ones are okay though. Nice big touch screen and good OS, way better than that cack that was Symbian.

Sounds like you haven't used the S^3/Belle devices - whilst it looks similar, overall operation is very, very different.

I'd be tempted to move from Symbian to WP7 if it were more than just a smooth interface. I really fail to see the point in the tiles, as its just a series of active widgets in a slightly different layout.

And that they've gone and crippled the OS functionality by stopping full multi tasking (WinMo used to handle it real well iirc), bluetooth functionality is apparently restricted in a very iPhone like manner. And the devices so far don't have removable/expandable memory (part of the MS spec?)

[Bibbs]

clonmult said:

Sounds like you haven't used the S^3/Belle devices - whilst it looks similar, overall operation is very, very different.

Nope, got burned with the lack of support for issues with the N95 - my last personal Nokia.
The replacements were not much better (N97 etc.).
Then dealing with the cr*p that were the E75 and E52 via work.

I'll not go back to Nokia.

[wolves_wanderer]

Pr1964 said:

wolves_wanderer said:

Erm, that is exactly how shops work. More stock is always carried of popular lines and vice versa.

Pity you didn't have a smartphone, you could have checked if anywhere local was selling your shaving foam

I see that's why they have shelves bursting with certain products and only a few left of the unpopular products.
Oh Yes that makes sense ...


So
It's got nothing to do with profit margin then? .. so stocking more of the high margin products and occasionally not putting out the branded product so as to force buyers to buy the own brand product before expiry or just to make the bigger margin and shift stock....

A friend worked as a graduate trainee at one of the big supermarket co's and that's exactly what they did, certain products were left in the store room so that the own brand products were shifted.... these days it's done from the distribution depot not the store.

Well I can only speak for the supermarket I managed for 3 years but your friend's story sounds the polar opposite of what actually happens.

Although I did go into a sports shop the other day and noticed only a couple of Bayern Munich shirts and loads of Man U and Liverpool ones, I guess the Bayern Munich ones must have almost sold out and nobody wanted the others...

[clonmult]

Bibbs said:

clonmult said:

Sounds like you haven't used the S^3/Belle devices - whilst it looks similar, overall operation is very, very different.

Nope, got burned with the lack of support for issues with the N95 - my last personal Nokia.
The replacements were not much better (N97 etc.).
Then dealing with the cr*p that were the E75 and E52 via work.

I'll not go back to Nokia.

I had no problems with my N95 - moved it from the operator branded firmware to stock, and it was fine. The operator customisations have always wrecked the Symbian devices - one area that Apple got very right, basically saying "this is the device, like it or sod right off".

N97 was a massive own goal, but other devices of the same generation (the 5230 that I owned) had no problems at all.

Current N8 has been rock solid, the only problems appeared after I installed some camera hacks.

[With these feet]

Pr1964 said:

I see that's why they have shelves bursting with certain products and only a few left of the unpopular products.
Oh Yes that makes sense ...


So
It's got nothing to do with profit margin then? .. so stocking more of the high margin products and occasionally not putting out the branded product so as to force buyers to buy the own brand product before expiry or just to make the bigger margin and shift stock....

A friend worked as a graduate trainee at one of the big supermarket co's and that's exactly what they did, certain products were left in the store room so that the own brand products were shifted.... these days it's done from the distribution depot not the store.

It's about maximising profit they don't give a toss about the customers getting wht the customers wants they just tempt them into the shop...

Logic...

I worked in a shop as a kid and the big sellers get the best spots exactly for that reason.
Its supply and demand.

When supply is greater than demand the shop reduces it sales space as stock not moving is a loss maker.
This is what happens when something reaches its sell by date, then try to re-invent it years later.
http://newsfeed.time.com/2010/07/20/old-spices-vir...

I would liken Nokia to Old Spice in that they once were popular, but being unable to shift stock and make profit cut their loses and aim elsewhere. In other terms, they stink !

[Dave200]

Pr1964 said:

5% of any market is worth having especially if it makes money... There are plenty of products aimed at even smaller segments of various markets

Again, you waffle endlessly and manage to spectacularly miss the point.
Answer me one questions, and I'll let this thread continue its course. What company in their right mind is going to target a small and diminishing portion of one of the fastest-moving global consumer markets? Nobody, that's who.

The stuff you say you want from a phone is what puts you into this minute, and disappearing, category. That's why, when you keep saying "why don't Nokia serve this 5%?", what you really mean is "Why aren't Nokia making a phone for ME?". If you can't understand that, then I can't make it any clearer.

Nokia's current line-up is weak, that much I'll agree with you on. However, it's weak because they are being forced to catch-up with a market within which they rested on their (then-considerable) laurels of share and proprietary tech. It's not weak because it doesn't have a handset with a keypad and 3-day battery life.

Even Nokia recognise that this isn't going to win them any favour with the people who matter (the ones who make them money) - the consumers, the app developers, the carriers. They realise that the vast, vast majority of the market has moved on from these needs, and can deal with having to put their phone on to charge every night (such hardship!). These people (like my 60yo mother, with her SGS2) have learned to use on-screen keyboards, and they've learned that the pinch-to-zoom touch functions are supremely intuitive.

So, the reason why the "phone for ME?" doesn't exist is because there just isn't enough demand. It's simple. Which is part of the reason why it's been so frustrating trying to hammer it into your skull for the past 20 pages.

[Dave200]

Pr1964 said:

"well she says it didn't sell very well and there was no demand.." 
"oh" I say " that's strange because every time I came in to buy some there were only ever a couple of cans but dozens of cans of the others brands, so to me it looked like VX was a good seller because there were never that many on the shelves"
"well" she says "if it sold well we'd have lots on the shelves!"

That to me is fookin hysterical..... Genius "shop assistant logic"..

Christ. Please tell me you're joking... Please.

Shops don't exist for "100 years" by filling their shelves full of stuff people don't buy, but only holding minimal stock of the most popular selling items.
Your subsequent point about "luring them in" is just mind-bogglingly naive. Shops don't exist by getting people through the door and selling them any old tat - they exist by fulfilling consumer needs. If they can sell them the "any old tat" as a biproduct of this, then all the better.
This is the sort of thing one might expect from a primary school level lesson in simple supply and demand.

Jesus. The problem is bigger than I thought...

Edited by Dave200 on Wednesday 16th May 19:06

[Dave200]

Pr1964 said:

Tyre analogy

You're describing a completely different consumer model. Nobody goes into a garage idly browsing for tyres. It's a need-driven experience, where brand choice/preference is seldom a consideration for 99% of the population.

Pr1964 said:

As I’ve said all along the problem for Nokia is that they have just stopped selling the things they did well there was no problem with the simbian handsets with buttons they worked for their intended purpose for users who didn’t want apps or to browse the net etc,

They stopped selling them because demand was dying off (as we've established), and they were making significantly less money through the old-tech platforms. Have you taken the time to understand what an absolute revenue gem the whole "apps" business is? No wonder Nokia wanted 'in'.

Pr1964 said:

I asked a sales guy in the o2 store and he said every day he has customers who come in with old nokia keypad phones like the 6230i asking for a replacement and he has nothing as good to offer them, the asha 300 and nokia 100 are currently the best available.

Your anecdotes are like a conversation with my late grandfather - interesting, compelling, but in no way related to reality. Either he's exaggerating, or his shop is some kind of consumer micro-climate.

Pr1964 said:

BB have made the bold 9700 9780 9900 etc etc etc a normal line of product development one improvement after another a normal product development strategy.
And BB sell all their products and they are available for upto a year or longer after they first come to the market
So why doesn’t Nokia do the same ???
It’s not about a Phone for ME it’s about Nokia’s weird business strategy …..

Totally Odd it make zero sense……

BlackBerry is in massive commercial trouble because of exactly the point you consider to make "zero sense". They have persisted with this nonsensical approach of focusing on proprietary tech and QWERTY form-factors, and have fallen WAY behind the market (they halved their market share in the USA over the past 12 months) through not listening to consumers' needs. They kept on rolling out iterations of the same old cr*p, because it was cheaper and easier than doing any development work. They ignored everyone who told them "touch is the future, embrace it now", because everyone there liked making QWERTY handsets. As a result, they are in the sh*t as a company.

Please tell me you get this...