Networking System Server

[Racylady]

I'm looking at putting a network into the office. We've already got all the cables in place but just need the server. I've had several quotes and they all seem massively different. We'll be running 8-10 PC's on the network. The quotes range from 512MB to 2GB. Does anyone know what I REALLY need for this so I don't pay a fortunate for something I don't need? Thanks.

[_dobbo_]

What will the server be doing? Is it just a file store, or will it also be printing/emailserver/proxy server/database/intranet/etc etc etc.

What you need will vary wildly depending on what you are using it for.

[BliarOut]

2K3 server on 512MB, not really. Realistic minimum would be 1GB, but if it's running SBS or Exchange you would be better with 2GB.

Hugely oversimplified answer there

[aldi]

Just to muddy the waters a bit If all you're doing is file sharing for 8 users, you don't need much in the way of CPU or RAM. Pretty much anything over a pentium 3/256MB with a fast disk should be able to keep the network saturated if you're on 100Mb Personally I'd spend the money on getting mirrored hard disks (raid-1) instead.

Ps: Don't forget a tape drive or something similar, for backups!

Neil

>> Edited by aldi on Wednesday 16th November 12:10

[guydw]

memory is cheap these days, so get as much as you can. I would say that you're more interested in the architecture of the wserver i.e. is it a proper server, does it have any redundancy etc. Depending on how important it is to your business, you will be able to decide what you need. So if it is a few files, but you can still trade if it's down, you can maybe go cheap. If losing the files is a pain, but not a major one, then slow backup etc may be OK. If on the other hand, the value of the data is high, you will rely on its availability to conduct your business, and loss of data would be a disaster (or even have legal implications) then you need to spend proper money and get an enterprise level solution which is fast and redundant and can be fully backed up quickly. Equally important is to make sure that someone has the right skills to manage it, to make sure any outages are minimised, and you never forget to run backups, and all data can be recovered quickly.

[Plotloss]

What do you want it to do?

[Racylady]

We want to share files and calendars, e-mail externally and internally, send faxed from the PC's, obtain accounts from our account pc (this obviously involves individual client ledgers) and also store our archive/deeds/wills database.

We've had the following suggestions so far:

HP ProLiant ML350 G4 T04 Xeon DP 3060-1.0MB
IBM E-Server X Series Intel P4 EMHT 3.0 Ghz 1GB RAM with 2x80Gb HDD
Dell PowerEdge 1800 Intel Xeon 2.8 Ghz 2GB RAID with 3x73Gb HDD
Dell PowerEdge as above but 3.0 Ghz
Dell PE830 1GB RAM with 2x 80Gb SATA
HP Proliant ML150 Tower Xeon 3Ghz 512MB RAM

What do you think?

[_dobbo_]

If you are running Windows 2003 and Exchange server 2003, I can't imagine that 512MB will be any good at all, it will be dog slow.

[agent006]

Of those, i'd go for one of the Dells. More for the config and RAID 5 than the make.
If you want yet another quote (and/or installation too) drop me a line through my profile.

>> Edited by agent006 on Thursday 17th November 12:14

[Baconbonce]

With the numbers of PC's involved and the requirements, it sounds like Small Business Server 2003 would be a fairly ideal solution.

Needs a decent specification server and probably 2 min of 2gb to run well, but the software would be cheaper to purchase (unless you already have plans on that side). SBS would certaily be able to do everything you have listed.

From that list I would go with the Dell with RAID 5 - has a more realistic memory spec on it also.

I'd ignore any of those servers with 512Mb listed - would run like a pig with Windows 2003, Exchange 2003 or SBS 2003 on it!

>> Edited by Baconbonce on Thursday 17th November 13:12

[Racylady]

Cheers guys, that's all really helpful. It's a bit of minefield when you don't really know what you're talking about!

[Plotloss]

Do you want a big name brand with the 'support' that goes with it or are you happy getting the same spec from an independant builder at a cheaper price and contracting a local support firm, perhaps adding server support to the existing desktop contract?

Thats going to have a bearing.

You dont need much, lot of memory, RAIDed storage and MS SBS and a middling CPU

[BliarOut]

ML 150 is a glorified PC, 350 is overkill. Sounds like you need a Proliant ML 330. HP do 'top value' models which are very competitively priced. You can get them bundled with SBS, tape drive etc. If you are running SBS, go for 2GB of RAM, job done. Stick with SCSI, not IDE or SATA.

Can't find them on the web at the mo, but I can find out part no's etc for you if you want when I'm back in the office.

[plasticpig]

Racylady said:

We want to share files and calendars, e-mail externally and internally, send faxed from the PC's, obtain accounts from our account pc (this obviously involves individual client ledgers) and also store our archive/deeds/wills database. We've had the following suggestions so far: HP ProLiant ML350 G4 T04 Xeon DP 3060-1.0MB IBM E-Server X Series Intel P4 EMHT 3.0 Ghz 1GB RAM with 2x80Gb HDD Dell PowerEdge 1800 Intel Xeon 2.8 Ghz 2GB RAID with 3x73Gb HDD Dell PowerEdge as above but 3.0 Ghz Dell PE830 1GB RAM with 2x 80Gb SATA HP Proliant ML150 Tower Xeon 3Ghz 512MB RAM What do you think?

Looking at the list above I would go for one of the Dell Poweredge options but get an extra disk incase one of the disks fails. I am gussing here that this is a RAID 5 configuration. Put simply this a fault tolerant system that means if one of the disks fails you will not lose any data and you can plug your spare disk in to replace the faulty one.

I dont see any backup solutions listed with the servers. This is a vital requirement for a solicitors practice as is secure offsite storage for the backup.

It is far more important to consider the total solution than just the server.
For example can you afford to live without the server for a day, two days or three days if something goes wrong? The standard support contracts offered by the manufacturers only cover fixing the hardware they dont cover fixng problems with the operating system or the software potentialy caused by the malfunctioning hardware.
The data you are storing is highly confidential. If the server was stolen would the data be secure? Its not about getting the right price for the server its about getting the right solution for the right price.

If you have thought about this already then I apologize for going on but I have seen to0 many businesses think about the cheapest solution rather than a good solution and come a cropper because of it.

[agent006]

plasticpig said:

I dont see any backup solutions listed with the servers. This is a vital requirement for a solicitors practice as is secure offsite storage for the backup. It is far more important to consider the total solution than just the server. For example can you afford to live without the server for a day, two days or three days if something goes wrong? The standard support contracts offered by the manufacturers only cover fixing the hardware they dont cover fixng problems with the operating system or the software potentialy caused by the malfunctioning hardware. The data you are storing is highly confidential. If the server was stolen would the data be secure? Its not about getting the right price for the server its about getting the right solution for the right price. If you have thought about this already then I apologize for going on but I have seen to0 many businesses think about the cheapest solution rather than a good solution and come a cropper because of it.

Good point(s).

[mattley]

Racylady said:

We want to share files and calendars, e-mail externally and internally, send faxed from the PC's, obtain accounts from our account pc (this obviously involves individual client ledgers) and also store our archive/deeds/wills database. We've had the following suggestions so far: HP ProLiant ML350 G4 T04 Xeon DP 3060-1.0MB IBM E-Server X Series Intel P4 EMHT 3.0 Ghz 1GB RAM with 2x80Gb HDD Dell PowerEdge 1800 Intel Xeon 2.8 Ghz 2GB RAID with 3x73Gb HDD Dell PowerEdge as above but 3.0 Ghz Dell PE830 1GB RAM with 2x 80Gb SATA HP Proliant ML150 Tower Xeon 3Ghz 512MB RAM What do you think?

I think all thos options are ridiculous, and no one who is quoting for you has any understanding of your requirement.

You haven't actually said how many PC clients you have, or what storage you require, but at anything to 15-20 users Microsofts SBS will run all that fine on any basic P4 2.8 with 2 gig of ram. Xeons are way over the top for this type of environment.

Storage is another matter and looks more important then processing in this scenario. You must look at how much you need and, as has been said above, work out how to secure it off site.

Up to the disk size you mentioned I'd be after an AIT backup tape drive, and enough media to do one every day for a week plus the one before any month end routines to be archived and replaced in the weekly cycle.

[guydw]

Mattley makes a good point.....

You need to make sure your disks are redundant - so 3 hard drives using raid 5 (data spread across 3 disks, you can lose one with no effect... - hot swappable replacement).

And back up is critical - how you administer it and where you store tapes is just as important aswhat kit you buy ....

[BliarOut]

guydw said:

Mattley makes a good point..... You need to make sure your disks are redundant - so 3 hard drives using raid 5 (data spread across 3 disks, you can lose one with no effect... - hot swappable replacement). And back up is critical - how you administer it and where you store tapes is just as important aswhat kit you buy ....

Ah, tapes.... A lady friend who was a network admin in a solicitors used to take hers home in her handbag..... Next to her mobile phone!!! She blushed when I pointed out the error of her ways

[plasticpig]

guydw said:

And back up is critical - how you administer it and where you store tapes is just as important aswhat kit you buy ....

For a Solicitors practice I would look seriously at offering and online backup solution. Backup solutions for Solicitors is a bit of a minefield because of the requirement to keep some data for up to 12 years and that they may also be regulated by the FSA which also has some stringent requirements.

[cuneus]

RAID 5

Just not worth it for the minimal cost saving

Go RAID1 (or 10)

Dell RAID controllers are just plain nasty