Teach yourself Cisco?

[miniandy]

Is it possible to teach yourself a Cisco qualification? By this I mean can you buy the books etc and pay for the test when you need to, or do you need to spend a fortune going on a taught course with a local learning partner?

Cheers

[zumbruk]

You can learn it yourself, but beware; the learning curve is very, very steep.

[Marki]

Thank god i just sell the boxes

[miniandy]

zumbruk said:

You can learn it yourself, but beware; the learning curve is very, very steep.

Explain? It would be the basic certificate at first, but then moving on to something else that interests me!

Cheers

[plasticpig]

Yes you can. Unless you have access to lots of Cisco kit you will need a simulator as well as the books.

[Caduceus]

Is there still demand for Cisco CCNA's then?

I thought the market was saturated with them now...

[miniandy]

Dunno mate, but I have nothing, so surely it's better than that?

[Caduceus]

Learning Cisco is not rocket science, but there is ALOT to learn.
I did a crash course once. Took 5 weeks off work(3paid,2 unpaid) and had it all set out.
Did the 2 paid courses (over a grand. a 1 week course, and a 1 day course) and then home study for about 3 1/2 weeks.

Took the exam and failed.
A pass was 849 points, and I got 676.

Just did'nt have the time and vigor to retake it again.

[T4R]

I hope you don't mind me asking, but what you want to achieve through Cisco certification ?

[miniandy]

The million dollar question! I see it as a way of proving to an employer that I can practice what I preach. I see it as being a foot in the door, because most techy-based jobs require this or Microsoft before they'll even look at you, no matter what existing experience you have. I might be wrong. What are your thoughts?

[agent006]

If you have agood working knowledge of IP networking then CCNA is just a case of learning IOS and how to get the routers to do what you want them to do. Most people trip up when they expect not to have to learn the workings of IP and all that jazz. I'm told CCNA to CCNP is a bigger jump than CCNP to CCIE, but that's probably again more to do with knowledge already gained seeing as enyone going for a CCIE will have been working day in day out with Cisco kit for ages.

[T4R]

miniandy said:

The million dollar question! I see it as a way of proving to an employer that I can practice what I preach. I see it as being a foot in the door, because most techy-based jobs require this or Microsoft before they'll even look at you, no matter what existing experience you have. I might be wrong. What are your thoughts?

Forgive me as I don't know your networking experience or background.

I think employment agencies tend to use certification as a means by which to easily pigeon-hole people. They’re generally not technical, (and I mean no disrespect by that remark) and, as such, tend to be able to identify potential candidates more easily through stipulation of certification in their job descriptions. It’s likely that an out-sourcing company/consultancy/personal contractor would appreciate an accreditation for the same reasons.

If, however, you do have experience and are fortunate to be able to get in front of an interviewer who knows the difference between IOS 12.3 and 12.4, then you’re probably going to be ok, having proven you can manage the equipment and the network environment in which it operates.

The Cisco world is huge. Understanding the differences between, for example, OSPF and BGP, or EIGRP and RIP is one thing on paper, but to understand how they operate in the so-called “real world” will take you to a whole new level. The same applies to LAN switching, VoIP, WAN switching, security, and IP TV not to mention routing et al.

It is a truly massive subject area, and if one is so inclined, fascinating and utterly enthralling. It can also be frustrating, demoralising, and infuriating.

Ultimately it’s not going to hurt anything other than your wallet, but I’d strongly recommend you get your paws on some equipment and preferably in a commercial network environment rather than at home. I’ve worked with Cisco kit since the late 1980s, and I’m still learning, although, given my age, that means I may have just forgotten something I knew yesterday.

Finally, I saw something mentioned by Flemke a little while ago which struck a chord. This is not a direct quote, but it went something along the lines of; if you do a job, and you want to do it well and succeed, make sure you are passionate about it.

There you go. That's the advice of an old fart out of the way..

PM me if there is anything you'd like to talk in depth about that you feel you'd rather not air publicly.

Edited by T4R on Wednesday 14th March 20:19 to stick a "t" in fart

Edited by T4R on Wednesday 14th March 20:21

[bogie]

I echo the previous information.

Networking itself is a huge field - just trying to get a couple of certs because you think you will get a good job out of it is a waste of time...the certs are only any good as a back up to real experience.

To the original question - yes, sure you can do it self-teach....but its difficult from scratch, it really depends on where you are coming from.

As an example, Ive been in networking all my life, say about 18 years, starting out on proprietary stuff and then learning/moving with the times as they changed. Back in 1998 I was working for a blue chip consultancy, with lots of training time/budget so i thought I would get myself some CV jewelry to back up the experience/help with interviews in the future - I bought the CCNA, CCDA, CWLANFE, CWLANSE books, browsed through each one for a 4 days and booked exams on the Friday of each week..then passed them all, no sweat. Most of it is elementary if you do it for a living ..you just need to learn "the Cisco way" of doing things.

..now this is different to someone who has some general IT knowledge and is starting from scratch...so much of the stuff in the CCNA/CCDA exams you would know already if you had been say a L2/L3 network engineer for 5 years in a big company.

Now from a job perspective, 10 years ago then the salaries that were tied to Cisco jobs (and cert levels) were very good...over the last 10 years these have devalued to a point, where I see job ads for entry level 1 techs asking for CCNA and a load of other stuff. I got off the Cisco gravy train about 4 years ago after never quite making my CCIE..and now earn a lot more that any of my old CCIE buddies

so in essence - i wouldnt do it, if you have to learn it all from scratch, and dont genuinely have an interest in a career in networking in general...there are easier ways of a career in the IT industry..no1 rule is find something you naturally enjoy learning about so it wont all seem like hard work when you have you head stuck in books and RFCs every evening

[tommundy]

If I'm not mistaken arent there only about 100 people in the country with an upto date CCIE qualification?

I've done CCNA, casually doing CCNP training myself but I am not for one second looking at it as my main occupational target.

Good luck though mate!

Cheers
Tom

[Tonsko]

I think there's only a few thousand worldwide with CCIE. I know BT only has a few.

[bogie]

dunno what the numbering is at now - maybe 15000 ish..but that dosent tell you how many are current?

to be a gold partner you used to have to have 6 CCIEs, about 30CCNP and 60+ CCNA + specialists...that was a few years back now...BT are a gold partner .

[Marshy]

Andy: quiz time. This is not designed to put you off or patronise - after all, I have no clue about your current experience. But if you can't do this then I'd question whether going straight for a CCNA, on the basis that it'll make you marketable, is the right way to go.

IP address: 192.168.40.32/20
Default gateway: 192.168.48.1
Nameserver 1: 192.168.96.2
Nameserver 1: 192.168.96.3

Now; there's one contrived howler in there (assuming I got this right myself ) and a couple of inadvisables.

Over to you

--Chris

[bigdods]

tommundy said:

If I'm not mistaken arent there only about 100 people in the country with an upto date CCIE qualification?

I've done CCNA, casually doing CCNP training myself but I am not for one second looking at it as my main occupational target.

Good luck though mate!

Cheers
Tom

I worked for Cisco for a fair nuber of years until quite recently. Cisco UK alone have more than 100 CCIEs, many of those guys have multiple CCIE's in different specialist disciplines. And there are hundres of partners out there all with 1 or more CCIEs. Then most really big businesses have a CCIE or two floating around. Well you get the picture. There are a lot of CCIEs out there. One of the biggest moans from Contractors now is that in the 'good old days' they could charge >£1200 per day as a CCIE now its down to £500 - £600 (IIRC) which suddenly makes a good permie job more attractive.

There is a shortage of people with both CCIE & JCIE , get those two and you can still earn the big bucks.

[ukwill]

bigdods said:

tommundy said:

If I'm not mistaken arent there only about 100 people in the country with an upto date CCIE qualification?

I've done CCNA, casually doing CCNP training myself but I am not for one second looking at it as my main occupational target.

Good luck though mate!

Cheers
Tom

I worked for Cisco for a fair nuber of years until quite recently. Cisco UK alone have more than 100 CCIEs, many of those guys have multiple CCIE's in different specialist disciplines. And there are hundres of partners out there all with 1 or more CCIEs. Then most really big businesses have a CCIE or two floating around. Well you get the picture. There are a lot of CCIEs out there. One of the biggest moans from Contractors now is that in the 'good old days' they could charge >£1200 per day as a CCIE now its down to £500 - £600 (IIRC) which suddenly makes a good permie job more attractive.

There is a shortage of people with both CCIE & JCIE , get those two and you can still earn the big bucks.

Yep, the money for IEs has come down quite substantially. However, the City still pays good $$$ for accumulated banking knowledge+certs. I can't see that ever changing.

I'm waiting for the day Cisco make IE renewals a lab as well as written exam. That'll bring the numbers right down again.


Doubt they'd ever do that though - after all, its all marketing.

[Tonsko]

That's ok if you want to work in BLOODY london!